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    1. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by Almaz View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Janico View Post
      Could that be the serpentine belt you're talking about (picture on link above). It seems easy enough to access and inspect for any wear. Could fracture of this belt happen sudden enough without showing any visible defects before failure?
      Please see post #26 by Tech.
      Yes, that's one way for a sudden failure I agree. Is this belt inside an inclosure for the USA cars? It seems if mine rolls of a pulley or fracture suddenly, the worst that could happen is loss of oil pressure, aircon and maybe water circulation pressure if it's connected to that. But what I'm trying to say the is instrument cluster will lit up like a Christmas tree before any serious damage can happen, from loss of circulation pressure of any of the involved fluid systems. I don't know, I'm just making an educated guess.

      My interest in this topic is peaked because in less than few weeks ago I skipped the tensioner and serpentine service for budget reasons among others.

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    3. #37
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      @Janico: The serpentine belt is not in an enclosure and you can clearly see it. I'm not a mechanic but based on what Tech said, the pulley failure causes the belt to slip and shred. A shred wraps around the crankshaft pulley and causes the timing belt to fail. This causes major damage. As far as needing a whole new engine that is arguable but it's a costly repair no matter what.
      Your 4-cylinder engine might react differently to the serpentine belt slipping, I don't know.
      But since your interest has peaked, you are now less interested in the topic. Unless, of course, your interest is piqued
      2012 S60 T5 Savile Gray/Beachwood

    4. #38
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      It doesn't need an engine. It usually just needs valves. All the ones I have done or my shop has done have just needed valves.

      It's usually cheaper to buy a new head, which includes all new valves, than it is to replace all valves and have a machine shop check the rest of the head.

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    6. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      It doesn't need an engine. It usually just needs valves. All the ones I have done or my shop has done have just needed valves.

      It's usually cheaper to buy a new head, which includes all new valves, than it is to replace all valves and have a machine shop check the rest of the head.
      How do timing chain driven cars react to serpentine failure? what is the worst that could happen?

    7. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by Janico View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      It doesn't need an engine. It usually just needs valves. All the ones I have done or my shop has done have just needed valves.

      It's usually cheaper to buy a new head, which includes all new valves, than it is to replace all valves and have a machine shop check the rest of the head.
      How do timing chain driven cars react to serpentine failure? what is the worst that could happen?
      I have no direct experience with your exact engine. But it should just lose whatever is driven by the belt. So no alternator, AC or power steering (if there is a mechanical pump and not an electronic one).

    8. #41
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      It doesn't need an engine. It usually just needs valves. All the ones I have done or my shop has done have just needed valves.

      It's usually cheaper to buy a new head, which includes all new valves, than it is to replace all valves and have a machine shop check the rest of the head.
      How about the pistons themselves? Are they damaged and could the turbo be damaged by pieces of the valves? I know my dealer did not have time to take the head off my engine so I am wondering where his "need new engine" diagnosis comes from. Not that a dealer would lie.

    9. #42
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Janico View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      It doesn't need an engine. It usually just needs valves. All the ones I have done or my shop has done have just needed valves.

      It's usually cheaper to buy a new head, which includes all new valves, than it is to replace all valves and have a machine shop check the rest of the head.
      How do timing chain driven cars react to serpentine failure? what is the worst that could happen?
      I have no direct experience with your exact engine. But it should just lose whatever is driven by the belt. So no alternator, AC or power steering (if there is a mechanical pump and not an electronic one).
      Thanks. Atleast that's some relief in the greater scheme of things

    10. #43
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      If valves are just bent, I've been able to just do the head and polish up any marks on the pistons.

      If a valve broke off, you'll need an engine.

    11. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      200k kms? It's replacement interval is 120k miles

      so, at what mileage would you replace the tensioner?

    12. #45
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      Quote Originally Posted by jlh3rd View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      200k kms? It's replacement interval is 120k miles

      so, at what mileage would you replace the tensioner?
      If I had a 2012 S60 and it hasn't been replaced, I would replace it regardless of mileage.

    13. #46
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      I'm getting mine replaced next week even though I had the belt replaced with the piston ring job 38k miles ago.
      OP had that work done at the same dealer and we all see what happened.
      It's a big chance to take in cost and in being stranded.

      Sent from my ASUS_Z017DA using Tapatalk
      2012 S60 T5 Savile Gray/Beachwood

    14. #47
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      If I had a 2012 S60 and it hasn't been replaced, I would replace it regardless of mileage.
      Can you see the difference between the old and new tensioner designs? They replaced my engine after the ring job didn't solve the oil burning issue but it wasn't a complete engine replacement. I believe it was just a new block and head. They took parts off the old engine like the manifolds, turbo and oil pan to complete the engine. Pretty sure it's got a new timing and serpentine belt but I'm not sure if the tensioner is new or reused.
      2012 S60 T5 - Flamenco Red, Soft/Sandstone Beige, Climate, Premium, Multimedia, Xenons, BLIS, PCC, Park Assist, Urbane Wood, TFT Retrofit

    15. #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by ecoDrive View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      If I had a 2012 S60 and it hasn't been replaced, I would replace it regardless of mileage.
      Can you see the difference between the old and new tensioner designs? They replaced my engine after the ring job didn't solve the oil burning issue but it wasn't a complete engine replacement. I believe it was just a new block and head. They took parts off the old engine like the manifolds, turbo and oil pan to complete the engine. Pretty sure it's got a new timing and serpentine belt but I'm not sure if the tensioner is new or reused.
      To be honest it's been a while since I've done one. Assuming your engine was done under warranty, PM me your VIN and I can see what parts were charged out for the repair.

    16. #49
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      First off sorry to hear of your dilemma and hope you can get something out of nothing. True, may as well try and see what VCNA gives if anything. The original 2012 T5 belt tensioner is part plastic, the new one we just installed after my timing belt skipped is all metal. Bought it from the dealer so I could visually inspect it rather than buying online.

      It's unfortunate but I was in the same boat with an oil-burning 2012 and decided to throw money into a rebuild rather than junk it. Time will tell. With a new timing belt, tensioner and pulley and drive belt plus the rebuilt head exhaust side valves and all valve seals replaced I hope to make it to 200,000. Hope. But it cost me close to $3000 to rebuild. Only because a mechanic friend helped out. Still owe him down the road.

      Good luck with your situation and enjoy the new Mazda 3, it's a nice looking ride. Which model and trim level have you chosen ?
      2012 S60 T5 FWD & 2013 XC90 AWD

    17. #50
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      As stated here, the tensioner wears and causes the belt to walk off. The belt edge gets shredded on the edge of the crank pulley as it walks off. The strands of drive belt gets caught in the timing belt crank gear. Look at your S60 tensioner, the drive belt should be in line or centered on the tensioner pulley. If any edge of the belt sticks out past the edge of the tensioner pulley at all, replace the tensioner and belt asap. Also as stated, replace the tensionr and belt any way. I bought a 2012 S60 with a broken t-belt that the drive belt tensioner failed. The belt failed at 70 mph and bent the valves. I got lucky all of the pistons were hit hard from the valves. I polished out the sharp edges and took a chance that the pistons were ok. I sent the head to a local machine shop to replace all of the valves and do the head reconditioning. Put back together. Has been running great for 7000 miles. I do not know how to post a pic. If I figure it out I will post a pic of the drive belt and timing belt wrapped around the crank gear.

    18. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by volvogod View Post
      As stated here, the tensioner wears and causes the belt to walk off. The belt edge gets shredded on the edge of the crank pulley as it walks off. The strands of drive belt gets caught in the timing belt crank gear. Look at your S60 tensioner, the drive belt should be in line or centered on the tensioner pulley. If any edge of the belt sticks out past the edge of the tensioner pulley at all, replace the tensioner and belt asap. Also as stated, replace the tensionr and belt any way. I bought a 2012 S60 with a broken t-belt that the drive belt tensioner failed. The belt failed at 70 mph and bent the valves. I got lucky all of the pistons were hit hard from the valves. I polished out the sharp edges and took a chance that the pistons were ok. I sent the head to a local machine shop to replace all of the valves and do the head reconditioning. Put back together. Has been running great for 7000 miles. I do not know how to post a pic. If I figure it out I will post a pic of the drive belt and timing belt wrapped around the crank gear.
      Great work! You can use tapatalk app on phone to post pictures.
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
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    19. #52
      Quote Originally Posted by klrobi View Post
      While I fight, I have no car. The fight goes one for a month or two, I'm out the money for a rental. I'm retired, I own only one car. I can't afford and don't need this. Even if I win, I'm still dealing with an interference engine and the same dealer.
      They advocated for you once before, try again. I'd speak to the General Manager and make it quite clear you called to get your car in ASAP. You were put off and told to wait. Having only one car, you continued to drive. Tensioner failed and here you are needing a new engine.

      Get the dealer to push on your behalf.

      One suggestion, ask if the dealer could provide a loaner short term while they negotiate. Let them know you only have this one car and see what they say. Might be a short term stop gap to see how things might play out.

    20. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by klrobi View Post
      Truthfully, no. It took over a year to get some action on the high oil consumption and the Volvo home office did nothing. Someone else who used the same dealer forced the issue . I found out, through Sweedspeed, and I confronted them. This was a month after they told me that high oil consumption was "normal". I then found the TJ. Maybe I'm just tired of dealing with Volvo. If I had a spare car or two, it would be different. I could sit back and screw with them. I had Japanese cars for 25 years before I bought the Volvo. I made a big mistake changing.
      Ask for a loaner car while this is worked out

      Use Social Media if needed

      Push - push - push. The less you can afford this, the more it is important to not let them take advantage of you.

    21. #54
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      Re the tensioner issue - is there a TJ or something? They keep saying I don't need to change it unless there is a problem or a TJ
      2012 S60 T5, original purchase date May 2011, chassis number 050616

    22. #55
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      There is no TJ. I'm just speaking from experience.

    23. #56
      I have a question, we have a 2015.5 XC 60. It has less than 52,000 miles. AC had a leak behind dash. Cost $2800 to get fixed. Warranty was done on April 2019. Service writer said he has seen 3 or 4 other XC 60’s with same problem. Has any person had this problem. We had transmission replace at around 40,000 miles, factory warranty worked then.
      The car is a lemon. Wife wants another car, not a Volvo. I have had Volvo’s for 52 years, granted they are from the 60 and 70’s.
      Never new.
      Sorry if this is in wrong place, don't know how to navigate this site. Thanks

    24. #57
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      Quote Originally Posted by npn View Post
      klrobi - my car is from the same batch... more in a bit

      First thing first - Japanese cars are NOT the same anymore; that's a known fact... actually people may laugh at this but my wife's 2018 Hyundai has amazed me... for like 1/3 of my Volvo's price.

      I agree with the rest - fight for a fix from Volvo or the warranty co. I had a 2002 S40 with 105,000mi that I dumped for pennies because the heater core failed and it was going to cost me $1,500 to replace it. My biggest regret when it comes to cars. Just take your time, fight and you never know.

      Thanks for bringing this to our attention, I'll be sure to consider the preemptive repairs.
      Totally agree here - regarding Japanese cars not being the same anymore. I'd buy a used Lexus from 200x with the v6. Or watch some Scotty Kilmer videos on YT for other ideas on a reliable car. =D

      I'm very impressed and happy with my Hyundai. Just get the models that were made in South Korea (VIN starting with K) if possible. I hope things work out.
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    25. #58
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      Hi,
      I don't mean to hijack this thread. I do have a relevant question. I have a 2007 V50 which, I am sure has the same engine as the S60. I had the timing belt and tensioner done in, I think, 2013, at 123k miles at the dealership.

      Is it possible that they used this cheesy tensioner? Is there any way to tell visually?

      Thanks!

    26. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      If I had a 2012 S60 and it hasn't been replaced, I would replace it regardless of mileage.
      I have a 2012 s60 with 105k miles on it and just spent $2k+ on a new radiator fan and fuel injectors and now yall got me worried Im about to spend more money

    27. #60
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      Quote Originally Posted by klrobi View Post
      How about the pistons themselves? Are they damaged and could the turbo be damaged by pieces of the valves? I know my dealer did not have time to take the head off my engine so I am wondering where his "need new engine" diagnosis comes from. Not that a dealer would lie.
      I did some checking on used engines around here and you can score a used engine for example at 2015 with 55,265 miles, with turbo ran great 2.5L, $1795

      A 2015 S60 engine missing the turbo with 30,500 miles for $2,850

      2015 2.0L Turbo,46K, with turbo, 46,235 for $3080

      I was playing with Car-Part.com to find these.

      Just in case you decide to replace the motor.

      If a dealer gets that car cheap I can guarantee you some tech is going to snag it, replace the motor and sell it for a profit.

      Heads are probably going for under $1000 used.

      So is it Rahal or Grey that has your car?
      Last edited by pghvolvo; 08-21-2019 at 12:57 PM.

    28. #61
      Quote Originally Posted by rogersvolvos View Post
      I have a question, we have a 2015.5 XC 60. It has less than 52,000 miles. AC had a leak behind dash. Cost $2800 to get fixed. Warranty was done on April 2019. Service writer said he has seen 3 or 4 other XC 60’s with same problem. Has any person had this problem. We had transmission replace at around 40,000 miles, factory warranty worked then.
      The car is a lemon. Wife wants another car, not a Volvo. I have had Volvo’s for 52 years, granted they are from the 60 and 70’s.
      Never new.
      Sorry if this is in wrong place, don't know how to navigate this site. Thanks
      All manufacturers have duds. You just struck out with your vehicle it seems and got an unlucky one.

      A "Lemon" and problematic car aren't one in the same. If it were a true Lemon, you would be able to file it under your state Lemon Law. Which, you couldn't since you said first major issue (transmission) happened at 40K.

      Sadly, that's where your factory / extended warranties kick in. Being that you have a troubled vehicle, you probably should have invested in an extended warranty. As $2800 on your AC leak would more than covered one.

      Other option, get an INDY mechanic that specializes in Volvos to do the repair much cheaper.

    29. #62
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      Quote Originally Posted by pghvolvo View Post
      I did some checking on used engines around here and you can score a used engine for example at 2015 with 55,265 miles, with turbo ran great 2.5L, $1795

      A 2015 S60 engine missing the turbo with 30,500 miles for $2,850

      2015 2.0L Turbo,46K, with turbo, 46,235 for $3080

      I was playing with Car-Part.com to find these.

      Just in case you decide to replace the motor.

      If a dealer gets that car cheap I can guarantee you some tech is going to snag it, replace the motor and sell it for a profit.

      Heads are probably going for under $1000 used.

      So is it Rahal or Grey that has your car?
      Rahal

    30. #63
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      Sorry I wish I could help but I only know the guys out at Bill Gray's. I'm still surprised that Volvo corporate hasn't jumped in to help you.

    31. #64
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      Quote Originally Posted by pghvolvo View Post
      Sorry I wish I could help but I only know the guys out at Bill Gray's. I'm still surprised that Volvo corporate hasn't jumped in to help you.
      I contacted them are they are helping to a certain extent. I don't know what they told the dealer to do since Volvo wants you to only communicate with the dealer. I was called by the dealer and told that Volvo and the dealership would go for a new head, if that was the only problem. I would be expected to "contribute" also. This was Tuesday morning. I have head nothing since. Nothing was said about what was to be done, if anything, if the damage went beyond the head.

      The service department never made any attempt to contact Volvo for me or argue with Volvo Warranty. They should have. I know they never pulled the head when they made their determination that the engine was completely shot. I'm not holding my breathe in anticipation. I already have my new car.

    32. #65
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      Took it to the local dealer, the one I've been taking my cars to for like 20 years... Most of the mechanics are the same.

      The guy who worked on replacing the piston rings, and was familiar with the oil consumption related problem... said that they never had to change the "tensioner".

      So he asked: timing belt tensioner OR serpentine belt tensioner?

      As far as he knew, only the pulley was plastic, on the timing belt tensioner
      2012 S60 T5, original purchase date May 2011, chassis number 050616

    33. #66
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      Quote Originally Posted by klrobi View Post
      I bought my 2012 S60 T5 in the Spring of 2011. I always went to the dealership for all services and even changed the oil twice as often as required by Volvo. My car turned out to be one of the oil burners so the dealer, after a year of prodding, did a ring job in 2015 at about 37,500 miles. When the rings were changed all the belts were changed as was the hardware

      Fast forward to last week. I started the car in the morning and heard some strange sounds. Looked under the hood and saw nothing out of place. I called my dealer and asked if I could bring it in so one of the techs could look at it. I was told they were totally booked up for a week and a half so I took the first available date. The noise did go away after a few minutes so I drove it.The next day, my car failed on the road and stranded me. It completely died. I had it towed in and the dealer finally looked under the hood yesterday afternoon. I was told that the serpentine belt, with a little over 31,000 miles on it, had shredded and damaged the timing belt which destroyed my engine. $15,000 for a new engine. Being smart I thought, I had purchased the expensive Volvo VIP Warranty in 2016. All good right. No, the warranty company refused to fix anything. A little clause says they do not cover the serpentine belt and therefore any damage the belt causes is not covered. Volvo engines being interference engines are toast if the serpentine belt breaks and breaks the timing belt, something Volvo knows and it seems the Volvo warranty company also knows and no help from my dealer.

      So here I am with a car with less than 70,000 that is junk and a $2,200 warranty that is unless. A car turned to junk by a $20.00 belt. Well goodbye to Volvo and good bye to Volvo VIP Warranties. My new Japanese car is waiting for me to pick up on Saturday.

      What an amazing story... and how unfortunate! But, now on our 3rd Volvo, this too will probably be our last. Ours has had a rumble noise coming from the right front wheel since new. The dealer has dismissed it as tire noise; they've dismissed the grease on that wheel [and only that wheel] as mere brake dust except finally, at the 40k mile point a Volvo rep showed up, dismissed it as mere brake dust BUT, when they put it on the lift and lo and behold, it was un-mistakenly grease and the rep shrieked "Yipes, there's grease on that wheel!" Didn't change anything, they cleaned the grease off but ignored the underlying problem, with the service manager going back to tire noise, the rep to it was just brake dust (in spite of just having seen grease!) with the shop foreman suggesting an errant animal had been urinating on the wheel... for the last 40,000 miles? Yeah, right; At this point they did their Multi-Point inspection (per warranty) and noted all brake pads were excellent, even listing measurements yet, just a 1,000 miles later I heard steel on steel! Sure enough, the much heralded right rear inside brake pad was the culprit! "This is normal wear and tear" from Volvo Corp.; "happens all the time" from the dealer; yet I, who have crewed on racing teams, do my own brake work (currently own 6 cars, 5 cycles) have NEVER seen just one pad wear out while the others did not... unless there was a problem. Clearly the tech never measured this pad and simply entered a figure on his report. Volvo and the dealer ignored this. Last, our Volvo registration arrived via email along with another from "the fleet." I couldn't understand why the Volvo was $75 more per year. Turns out, in Maryland, vehicles over 3,700 lbs pay a higher rate. I googled our 2015.6 T6 AWD to see what the mags said it weighed and they all came in around 3,450 lbs. I asked Volvo Corp. and this was their reply: The curb weight for the 2015.5 S60 T5 AWD is Between 3490-3800 lbs. We have attached information for you about your concern click here on page 365 of your manual. You don't have to follow much auto-racing to know that a weight difference of 310 lbs can get you into a bit of trouble! The Maryland Vehicle Admin (MVA) says that their hands are tied as they have to abide by the "Vehicle..... " well, something or other form, acronym eludes me but she essentially netted it out as the vehicles birth certificate. According to Maryland import records, ours was listed at 3,702 lbs!! 3 strikes and you're out? The ambivalence, the stupidity and sheer arrogance have impressed at every turn... and I mean in the wrong way. Owned quite a few cars over the years and never experienced anything like this... not even close. Are we in what they call "a new era?"

    34. #67
      Quote Originally Posted by "Bob" View Post
      What an amazing story... and how unfortunate! But, now on our 3rd Volvo, this too will probably be our last. Ours has had a rumble noise coming from the right front wheel since new. The dealer has dismissed it as tire noise; they've dismissed the grease on that wheel [and only that wheel] as mere brake dust except finally, at the 40k mile point a Volvo rep showed up, dismissed it as mere brake dust BUT, when they put it on the lift and lo and behold, it was un-mistakenly grease and the rep shrieked "Yipes, there's grease on that wheel!" Didn't change anything, they cleaned the grease off but ignored the underlying problem, with the service manager going back to tire noise, the rep to it was just brake dust (in spite of just having seen grease!) with the shop foreman suggesting an errant animal had been urinating on the wheel... for the last 40,000 miles? Yeah, right; At this point they did their Multi-Point inspection (per warranty) and noted all brake pads were excellent, even listing measurements yet, just a 1,000 miles later I heard steel on steel! Sure enough, the much heralded right rear inside brake pad was the culprit! "This is normal wear and tear" from Volvo Corp.; "happens all the time" from the dealer; yet I, who have crewed on racing teams, do my own brake work (currently own 6 cars, 5 cycles) have NEVER seen just one pad wear out while the others did not... unless there was a problem. Clearly the tech never measured this pad and simply entered a figure on his report. Volvo and the dealer ignored this. Last, our Volvo registration arrived via email along with another from "the fleet." I couldn't understand why the Volvo was $75 more per year. Turns out, in Maryland, vehicles over 3,700 lbs pay a higher rate. I googled our 2015.6 T6 AWD to see what the mags said it weighed and they all came in around 3,450 lbs. I asked Volvo Corp. and this was their reply: The curb weight for the 2015.5 S60 T5 AWD is Between 3490-3800 lbs. We have attached information for you about your concern click here on page 365 of your manual. You don't have to follow much auto-racing to know that a weight difference of 310 lbs can get you into a bit of trouble! The Maryland Vehicle Admin (MVA) says that their hands are tied as they have to abide by the "Vehicle..... " well, something or other form, acronym eludes me but she essentially netted it out as the vehicles birth certificate. According to Maryland import records, ours was listed at 3,702 lbs!! 3 strikes and you're out? The ambivalence, the stupidity and sheer arrogance have impressed at every turn... and I mean in the wrong way. Owned quite a few cars over the years and never experienced anything like this... not even close. Are we in what they call "a new era?"
      Just like there are incompetent doctors (and I've seen a few in my lifetime), there are incompetent techs and dealerships. If you didn't like the answer, why didn't you try to take the vehicle to another dealer for a second opinion? Is there only one dealer in the area?

      It's like if a doctor diagnoses you with cancer and tell you that you've got 6 months to live. Are you going to sit there and say "OK Doc", thanks for update. Nope, anyone in their right mind gets a second opinion.

      Wouldn't write off the brand over a few bad experiences. Go to another dealer, see if they're any better, and decide from there.

    35. #68
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      If you have a 2012 S60, replace the tensioner. I've seen several fail. Sometimes Volvo fixes it goodwill but there's no guarantee.
      Okay....so you are suggesting an inspection, or automatically replace the tensioner (and belt?). I have just under 75K miles on my MY12 S60 T5, so any other advice is much appreciated!
      Last edited by GregK; 08-24-2019 at 09:41 AM.
      2012 S60 T5 (OSD 4/2012) Ember Black/Offblack l Premium,Multimedia,Climate,Dynamic l BLIS/PCC/ABL/F&R Park Assist/Sport Pedals/Chrome Endpipes

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    36. #69
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      IL
      Posts
      131
      Tech - same as in the other thread - my tech swears there is 'new' version of the tensioner for this car

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/forumd.../605023?page=2
      2012 S60 T5, original purchase date May 2011, chassis number 050616

    37. #70
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jul 2019
      Posts
      11
      Sorry to hear this. This just happened to my inlaws car a couple months ago, although thankfully it made it to 178k miles. Still:

      Quite frankly, I think, and you'll pardon my french, that it's a pretty ****ty design that the timing cover can't keep foreign debris out from underneath it. What's the point of having it?

      Between this engine and the 3.2L makes me really question owning a modern Volvo.

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