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    1. #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      He got the new plugs. I have no way of knowing what happened to cause his exhaust valve damage.
      I guess from a technical standpoint, it'll be interesting to see what the determination is for how the plugs broke. I'm sure the tech will do a complete write up once OP's problem is completely resolved.

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    3. #72
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      He got the new plugs. I have no way of knowing what happened to cause his exhaust valve damage.
      I didn't check but from his posts I think the "new" plugs are now also replaced and inspected and trace of broken piece is found.
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    4. #73
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      I didn't check but from his posts I think the "new" plugs are now also replaced and inspected and trace of broken piece is found.
      So are you thinking the original plugs broke off before being replaced? Leaving a fragment that wound up damaging the engine?

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    6. #74
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      So are you thinking the original plugs broke off before being replaced? Leaving a fragment that wound up damaging the engine?
      I am thinking the new plug still broke somehow....

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    7. #75
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      I am thinking the new plug still broke somehow....

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      and that brings me back to my post. i've changed in my lifetime probably near 1000 plugs. I've only seen 2 plugs fail. Both were NGK copper. I've never had an iridium plug fail. something gave out inside those two copper plugs. Both cars were making well over 500HP.with one being 800HP.. I've built 1000HP engines and i've seen plugs melt due to high heat. I've seen the ceramic on the plugs shatter due to detonation. If the new plug fragmented in the cylinder, i would have liked to see the plug that they claim broke. i would like to know what part broke off and read the plug.

    8. #76
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sidwin View Post
      and that brings me back to my post. i've changed in my lifetime probably near 1000 plugs. I've only seen 2 plugs fail. Both were NGK copper. I've never had an iridium plug fail. something gave out inside those two copper plugs. Both cars were making well over 500HP.with one being 800HP.. I've built 1000HP engines and i've seen plugs melt due to high heat. I've seen the ceramic on the plugs shatter due to detonation. If the new plug fragmented in the cylinder, i would have liked to see the plug that they claim broke. i would like to know what part broke off and read the plug.
      It has to be somewhere on the very top of the ceramic or porcelain base around the tip. We have to ask the OEM why it may crack or even chip off. If the OEM has one model special for SPA cars, then other generic models, there must be a reason. Is Bosch the OEM?

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      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 10-05-2019 at 09:08 AM.
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    9. #77
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sidwin View Post
      big shout out to volvo to do a ring job on an engine that is outside of warranty. that is not fun... trust me on that. Toyota just sends you a short block and head under warranty and the tech swaps the cams, manifolds and pumps over. I'm guessing there is going to be some machining work done if the piston rings are being replaced. Tech or gunshow would know. I always would send my blocks to my machine shop and have them rebore to the new piston rings.

      sounds like here it could be multiple issues. If the plugs were already replaced i'm guessing they did the TSB. I have never ever in my entire life have seen a plug break off that wasn't due to detonation, knock, etc. I've seen plugs just die. I've seen coil packs die. Either one of those scenarios nothing happens to the cylinder besides getting fuel sprayed on it. I would like to know what caused that plug to break off. Once a plug breaks off, valves are the first one to usually go. The piston heads are pretty good at handling it. Kind of horrifying to think of a plug breaking. Makes me wonder fuel quality, pressure, etc.

      Detonation is beyond dangerous. In this engine that is being compressed from a supercharger and a turbocharger, the shock wave destroys everything....
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZysyokEU60

      good video explaining what's going on if you all are bored.
      Great video on detonation. I had a modified Q45a from Nissan back in 1990. It had an exhaust, cold air intake, and ECU modified by Wolf Racing. The combination created extreme detonation that eventually resulted in the crown of the piston breaking off and killing the cylinder. The block was toast. Engine at the time was about $15k. It ran too lean.
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    10. #78
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      Sidwin - Great video on detonation, thank you.

      To briefly re-cap how I got here because I see a lot of questions - the spark plug was replaced as part of the service action campaign at 26K miles. about 4 weeks ago, I got a check engine and reduced performance error message and a mechanic pulled the plug from cylinder 3 and it has pieces missing from the plug. After I took the car to the dealer and showed it to the service mgr, they said that the insulator around the main electrode is completely gone and on the other electrical, the tip ( the "L" shaped electrode, lack of a better term) was also missing.

      Basically the conclusion was that the plug somehow suffered catastrophic failure and blew apart inside the cylinder sending pieces into the cylinder. One of the pieces ended up damaging the exhaust valve (they didn't say what kind of damage), preventing it from closing properly. Also scratched the top of the piston. Getting new set of pistons as part of an open TJ.

      Everyone's guess so far is just that I got spark plug with a manufacturing defect in it and I was the lucky winner, pure and simple. There are pieces clearly missing from the spark plug and after taking apart the engine, the only way there would be the damage seen is that there were pieces flying around inside the cylinder.

      The service mgr and advisor can't believe it either but yet here we are.

      Volvo did me a big favor for which I'm thankful for. The entire situation still seems crazy to me, that at 52k miles, I would now have a set of new pistons and valves in my engine.

      Anyways, I'm glad it's a happy ending.
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    11. #79
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      The L shaped electrode is the negative / ground. If it fell off, seems this spark plug is really a badly defective one.
      Can't imagine. and it is supposed to be the revised parts. Is Bosch still the OEM?
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    12. #80
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      The L shaped electrode is the negative / ground. If it fell off, seems this spark plug is really a badly defective one.
      Can't imagine. and it is supposed to be the revised parts. Is Bosch still the OEM?
      I don't know who makes it. I'll ask on Monday when I go to the dealer to get a status check.

      Yeah it's crazy how a spark plug could fail like this. I guess technically it's completely possible but I thought spark plugs were pretty well understood which is why I think this was a pretty bad defect.

      Volvo's maintenance schedule says to swap plugs every 60K. If I got the new/updated plugs at 26K and they failed at 52K, the plug didn't even make it thru half of it's service life before exploding, let alone other cars I've owned have plugs that last 100K. I only heard of plugs that stop sparking, not exploding in some manner.
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      If possible, I would replace the fuel filter. Even if you have to pay for it. Ceramic shattering is bad.... that head is going to need to be cleaned and machined. You might have suffered a combo of things that wasn’t plug related. Low fuel pressure from a dirty filter or failing pump. Bad tank of gas that had lower octane. We’re u happen to be on the throttle when the cel came? Weird how your extended warranty didn’t cover a stuck exhaust valve. Mental note, stay with fidelity 🙂
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sidwin View Post
      If possible, I would replace the fuel filter. Even if you have to pay for it. Ceramic shattering is bad.... that head is going to need to be cleaned and machined. You might have suffered a combo of things that wasn’t plug related. Low fuel pressure from a dirty filter or failing pump. Bad tank of gas that had lower octane. We’re u happen to be on the throttle when the cel came? Weird how your extended warranty didn’t cover a stuck exhaust valve. Mental note, stay with fidelity 🙂
      Thanks for the tips. I hope the service advisor will give me a maintenance checklist afterwards. I've always used 91 octane gas here. When the CEL came on, I was accelerating on an on-ramp. The carmax warranty (whoever they are, they're not Warrantech or Fidelity) didn't cover it because it doesn't cover spark plugs and any resulting damage from it. They say it's a consumable/maintenance item.
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    15. #83
      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      I don't know who makes it. I'll ask on Monday when I go to the dealer to get a status check.

      Yeah it's crazy how a spark plug could fail like this. I guess technically it's completely possible but I thought spark plugs were pretty well understood which is why I think this was a pretty bad defect.

      Volvo's maintenance schedule says to swap plugs every 60K. If I got the new/updated plugs at 26K and they failed at 52K, the plug didn't even make it thru half of it's service life before exploding, let alone other cars I've owned have plugs that last 100K. I only heard of plugs that stop sparking, not exploding in some manner.
      I wonder if the old plugs were replaced with new plugs or another set of old ones (mixup)? Or if you just happened upon a faulty set of new ones that catastrophically failed in style. Either way, for $500, you're getting a completely redone / new engine. Which is a monumental good will gesture by Volvo, because you'd be out of pocket many $1000s of dollars!

    16. #84
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      I wonder if the old plugs were replaced with new plugs or another set of old ones (mixup)? Or if you just happened upon a faulty set of new ones that catastrophically failed in style. Either way, for $500, you're getting a completely redone / new engine. Which is a monumental good will gesture by Volvo, because you'd be out of pocket many $1000s of dollars!
      Agreed that Volvo came up big for me on this one given my situation.

      But I must say, I'm nervous...rebuilt engine and then re-attached to car, my mind is going crazy thinking about all the things that can go wrong. Like one of the folks here said, all the components in the car needs to be re-learn/get re-acquinted with the rebuilt engine....

      Anyways, I miss my car so really looking forward to getting it back.
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      The engine stays in the car for the job. It's a lot of work but if done right, nothing to worry about.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      The engine stays in the car for the job. It's a lot of work but if done right, nothing to worry about.
      Even if the pistons need to be replaced? the engine can still stay in the car during this job?
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      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      Even if the pistons need to be replaced? the engine can still stay in the car during this job?
      Yea, I had the entire thing pulled, broken into iddy biddy pieces, shipped half way across the country, rebuilt, shipped back and stuffed back in. No worries as long as competent people are doing the work.


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      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      The engine stays in the car for the job. It's a lot of work but if done right, nothing to worry about.
      Even if the pistons need to be replaced? the engine can still stay in the car during this job?
      Yep. Head comes off the top, oil pan off the bottom.

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      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      Agreed that Volvo came up big for me on this one given my situation.

      But I must say, I'm nervous...rebuilt engine and then re-attached to car, my mind is going crazy thinking about all the things that can go wrong. Like one of the folks here said, all the components in the car needs to be re-learn/get re-acquinted with the rebuilt engine....

      Anyways, I miss my car so really looking forward to getting it back.
      It'll probably be put together better than the original, I wouldn't sweat it. Having pulled, torn-down/rebuilt and then re-installed many engines in many cars, there's nothing to fear about the process. It's labor intensive, but as long as people are using torque/angle wrenches properly you'll be fine. Electrical and such are all harnesses nowadays, so there's really nothing to go wrong - everything is modular so it just legos back together.

    22. #90
      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      Agreed that Volvo came up big for me on this one given my situation.

      But I must say, I'm nervous...rebuilt engine and then re-attached to car, my mind is going crazy thinking about all the things that can go wrong. Like one of the folks here said, all the components in the car needs to be re-learn/get re-acquinted with the rebuilt engine....

      Anyways, I miss my car so really looking forward to getting it back.
      I would presume that if Volvo is going through the monumental effort of having the pistons done, they aren't going to farm this out to a new tech who has never rebuilt an engine. Doubt Volvo wants this coming back for round two. This type of job is very labor intensive and costly.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      Agreed that Volvo came up big for me on this one given my situation.

      But I must say, I'm nervous...rebuilt engine and then re-attached to car, my mind is going crazy thinking about all the things that can go wrong. Like one of the folks here said, all the components in the car needs to be re-learn/get re-acquinted with the rebuilt engine....

      Anyways, I miss my car so really looking forward to getting it back.
      I would presume that if Volvo is going through the monumental effort of having the pistons done, they aren't going to farm this out to a new tech who has never rebuilt an engine. Doubt Volvo wants this coming back for round two. This type of job is very labor intensive and costly.
      Depends on the shop. Some might have an apprentice do this under the supervision of a shop foreman. What better way to learn your way around the Drive E engine than to replace the pistons? All shops are different though.

    24. #92
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Depends on the shop. Some might have an apprentice do this under the supervision of a shop foreman. What better way to learn your way around the Drive E engine than to replace the pistons? All shops are different though.
      Don't get me wrong, hands on learning is the best way to grasp a concept. However, I'm not sure any owner would knowingly want their vehicle to be the test bed. That being said, I imagine if an apprentice is rebuilding the engine, the shop foreman would be keeping a close eye. Doubt the shop wants to tear down an engine twice and redo any screw ups.

    25. #93
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      Like I said, all shops are different.

      If I don't know what an apprentice can handle, I don't give him a job like this. Once I know what he can handle, I'll tell him "take 'x' off, then come see me". And then I'll check it. Coming apart isn't a big deal though, going back together is. So I'll watch the important parts and check after various steps along the way.

      The job sucks for flat rate guys. Doing it this way keeps them busy, making money. And it lets an apprentice learn while not having to rush it because he isn't flat rate. And I make sure it's done right. Win all around.

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      2016 XC90 just out of warranty, having engine misfire issue - need advice

      Just remember, its not the first and wont be the last. Engines get built and rebuilt everyday. Having trusted seasoned people wrenching however, will make a significant difference. Sometimes the best work is done when someone is teaching/learning as long as the teacher is worth a ****.


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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Like I said, all shops are different.

      If I don't know what an apprentice can handle, I don't give him a job like this. Once I know what he can handle, I'll tell him "take 'x' off, then come see me". And then I'll check it. Coming apart isn't a big deal though, going back together is. So I'll watch the important parts and check after various steps along the way.

      The job sucks for flat rate guys. Doing it this way keeps them busy, making money. And it lets an apprentice learn while not having to rush it because he isn't flat rate. And I make sure it's done right. Win all around.
      thanks for the insight and assurances (as well as from other folks)!

      I asked if I could purchase an additional warranty and it looks like I can. I'm wondering if I can should purchase one for like 3 yrs or something. I'm gonna inquire about seeing if I can get some of my money back on the CarMax warranty if I really can purchase a VIP (Fidelity) extended warranty.
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    28. #96
      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      thanks for the insight and assurances (as well as from other folks)!

      I asked if I could purchase an additional warranty and it looks like I can. I'm wondering if I can should purchase one for like 3 yrs or something. I'm gonna inquire about seeing if I can get some of my money back on the CarMax warranty if I really can purchase a VIP (Fidelity) extended warranty.
      Read the contract and see if there's any way to cancel. If there is, it'll either be prorated or a huge penalty (suspect). You might have to wait and see if Warrantech covers the repair. If they refuse, I'd write attorney general, and see then if there's a way to acquire a full refund.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Like I said, all shops are different.

      If I don't know what an apprentice can handle, I don't give him a job like this. Once I know what he can handle, I'll tell him "take 'x' off, then come see me". And then I'll check it. Coming apart isn't a big deal though, going back together is. So I'll watch the important parts and check after various steps along the way.

      So no machining of the block or head is done? That valve gets bent from debris, Volvo just replaces the one valve and reshim the cams? The block isn’t bored out if there is a ring issue? Just install a larger ring?? Call me old school or super thorough but I sent mine off to a machine shop and have them head decked, 3 way angle job and crank balanced with bored. That’s why I liked working on Toyota’s cause they send u an entire head or short block.

      The job sucks for flat rate guys. Doing it this way keeps them busy, making money. And it lets an apprentice learn while not having to rush it because he isn't flat rate. And I make sure it's done right. Win all around.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Like I said, all shops are different.

      If I don't know what an apprentice can handle, I don't give him a job like this. Once I know what he can handle, I'll tell him "take 'x' off, then come see me". And then I'll check it. Coming apart isn't a big deal though, going back together is. So I'll watch the important parts and check after various steps along the way.

      So no machining of the block or head is done? That valve gets bent from debris, Volvo just replaces the one valve and reshim the cams? The block isn’t bored out if there is a ring issue? Just install a larger ring?? Call me old school or super thorough but I sent mine off to a machine shop and have them head decked, 3 way angle job and crank balanced with bored. That’s why I liked working on Toyota’s cause they send u an entire head or short block.

      The job sucks for flat rate guys. Doing it this way keeps them busy, making money. And it lets an apprentice learn while not having to rush it because he isn't flat rate. And I make sure it's done right. Win all around.
      Wow no angle job to clean up the valves or head deck when they get removed? Install larger piston rings without being bored or crank balanced? I always had my machine shop do the checks. That’s why Toyota were easy to work on with their short blocks and heads almost full assembled.
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      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Sidwin View Post
      If possible, I would replace the fuel filter. Even if you have to pay for it. Ceramic shattering is bad.... that head is going to need to be cleaned and machined. You might have suffered a combo of things that wasn’t plug related. Low fuel pressure from a dirty filter or failing pump. Bad tank of gas that had lower octane. We’re u happen to be on the throttle when the cel came? Weird how your extended warranty didn’t cover a stuck exhaust valve. Mental note, stay with fidelity 🙂
      Thanks for the tips. I hope the service advisor will give me a maintenance checklist afterwards. I've always used 91 octane gas here. When the CEL came on, I was accelerating on an on-ramp. The carmax warranty (whoever they are, they're not Warrantech or Fidelity) didn't cover it because it doesn't cover spark plugs and any resulting damage from it. They say it's a consumable/maintenance item.
      Not really. They can’t blame a plug if their was detonation that’s caused the plug to fail. It would be hard for them to prove the plug broke the engine. The engine could have broken the plug. Low fuel pressure, bad gas, etc. Never in the 1000 plugs I’ve changed would I ever think the plug failed and destroyed the engine. Your story of getting on an on ramp sounds more likely of a lean fuel condition. All cars should have wide bands o2 🙂
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sidwin View Post

      Wow no angle job to clean up the valves or head deck when they get removed? Install larger piston rings without being bored or crank balanced? I always had my machine shop do the checks. That’s why Toyota were easy to work on with their short blocks and heads almost full assembled.
      The pistons aren't bigger. Of course we clean the surface of the head before reassembly. Not the valves though.

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      https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...l-warranty-v60

      Came across this article and it has me spooked...I have everything in writing from the dealer but this is kind of scary that Volvo would stiff the customer after committing to good will support.

      TL/DR: A guy in UK with a 3yr old V60 just out of warranty has a timing chain snapped resulting in 9K + Labor in damages. Volvo agrees to good will support, asking 500 for the investigation. When the car is done, Volvo apparently re-negged on good will support somehow concluding it was due to owner neglect/bad servicing, asking for full price of the work done to return the car. Apparently Guardian intervened in those consumer action type stories, convincing Volvo to keep their end of the bargain.
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      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...l-warranty-v60

      Came across this article and it has me spooked...I have everything in writing from the dealer but this is kind of scary that Volvo would stiff the customer after committing to good will support.

      TL/DR: A guy in UK with a 3yr old V60 just out of warranty has a timing chain snapped resulting in 9K + Labor in damages. Volvo agrees to good will support, asking 500 for the investigation. When the car is done, Volvo apparently re-negged on good will support somehow concluding it was due to owner neglect/bad servicing, asking for full price of the work done to return the car. Apparently Guardian intervened in those consumer action type stories, convincing Volvo to keep their end of the bargain.
      Yeah, but did the dealer 'tell him' Volvo would cover it, or did he actually have it in writing that they'd cover it??
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    34. #102
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      Join Date
      Jun 2018
      Posts
      301
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      The pistons aren't bigger. Of course we clean the surface of the head before reassembly. Not the valves though.
      i've was always told if you pull the head you need to get it decked due to perhaps slight warping from pulling off something so long that was torqued down. probably an overkill but we did it on the motors i pulled.

      i was referring if you do a ring job on pistons, when i would reuse the engine core, i would have to go with slightly larger rings. Definitely needed larger rings if the machine shop went through and cleaned everything.
      Sid
      2019 Volvo XC90 T6 OSD
      2007 Porsche 911 Turbo
      2004 Dodge Viper SRT-10
      2012 Ducati Diavel

    35. #103
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jun 2018
      Posts
      301
      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...l-warranty-v60

      Came across this article and it has me spooked...I have everything in writing from the dealer but this is kind of scary that Volvo would stiff the customer after committing to good will support.

      TL/DR: A guy in UK with a 3yr old V60 just out of warranty has a timing chain snapped resulting in 9K + Labor in damages. Volvo agrees to good will support, asking 500 for the investigation. When the car is done, Volvo apparently re-negged on good will support somehow concluding it was due to owner neglect/bad servicing, asking for full price of the work done to return the car. Apparently Guardian intervened in those consumer action type stories, convincing Volvo to keep their end of the bargain.
      u need to stop reading that kind of stuff or u won't be able to sleep at night.
      Sid
      2019 Volvo XC90 T6 OSD
      2007 Porsche 911 Turbo
      2004 Dodge Viper SRT-10
      2012 Ducati Diavel

    36. #104
      Quote Originally Posted by omnimax View Post
      https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...l-warranty-v60

      Came across this article and it has me spooked...I have everything in writing from the dealer but this is kind of scary that Volvo would stiff the customer after committing to good will support.

      TL/DR: A guy in UK with a 3yr old V60 just out of warranty has a timing chain snapped resulting in 9K + Labor in damages. Volvo agrees to good will support, asking 500 for the investigation. When the car is done, Volvo apparently re-negged on good will support somehow concluding it was due to owner neglect/bad servicing, asking for full price of the work done to return the car. Apparently Guardian intervened in those consumer action type stories, convincing Volvo to keep their end of the bargain.
      1. That was the UK. Not the United States.
      2. Get it in writing Volvo will assist if that eases your mind. Start an informal email exchange or ask General Manager for details of what will take place (in writing).

      I've never seen Volvo renege on a promise to undertake a repair.

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