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    Thread: T8 Real Mpg

    1. #1
      Junior Member Dilinger's Avatar
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      T8 Real Mpg

      Guys,

      Reaching out here to get real life experience and opinions.
      Is there any T8 owner out there with a daily commute of approx. 75-100km (45-62 miles).
      This is my daily commute which involves a round trip from a suburb outside the town centre to the centre and back..
      This includes open road -not highway- ,then some slight road twists and then some light traffic with traffic lights to some heavier traffic at the end of the destination to work.
      I would be able to charge only overnight (once daily).

      My one way trip x 2 had the following stats:

      1 hour duration / 37kms (23miles)

      What mpg do you get if you have a similar driving lifestyle?
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      My wife's drive was similar. 54 miles round-trip, suburb to suburb with regular streets plus a bunch of highway, but in traffic so speeds were not generally that high.

      She charged nightly and averaged around 37 mpg.

    4. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      My wife's drive was similar. 54 miles round-trip, suburb to suburb with regular streets plus a bunch of highway, but in traffic so speeds were not generally that high.

      She charged nightly and averaged around 37 mpg.
      Thank you Zaxxon, i am guessing mpg as imperial ,right? or US mpg?
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      US, sorry.

    7. #5
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      Ok that is 6.4lt/100km, not bad but not impressive tbh. Of course as said before its considered surely economical.
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      Yeah, on her 54-mi drive, about 2/3 of it would be after the charge depleted. Rated EPA mpg at that stage is 25, so an overall average of 37 is about right.

    9. #7
      Junior Member Dilinger's Avatar
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      Was she using EV mode and then hybrid, of Hybrid all the way?
      Seems like Hybrid would be more suitable for a 54 miles commute.
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    10. #8
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      T8 isn't more economical over long distances than a diesel 2L.

      It's more about overtaking power on longish distances than fuel economy. It's super perfect on 20miles or less distances

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    11. #9
      Junior Member Dilinger's Avatar
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      Yes Seti, i know, it perfectly makes sense, but a 40-60 miles is not a lot more than the 20miles range the battery has.
      Could be used in Hybrid instead of Pure and ''spread'' the battery advantage where needed, during the commute.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dilinger View Post
      Yes Seti, i know, it perfectly makes sense, but a 40-60 miles is not a lot more than the 20miles range the battery has.
      Could be used in Hybrid instead of Pure and ''spread'' the battery advantage where needed, during the commute.
      I find Hybrid mode isn't as efficient as in Pure mode, though more response and smoother than Pure.

      I use Individual based on Pure template, but only change braking to Dynamic and Suspension to Hybrid. Previously, I used to drive in Pure mode but found suspension a little harder than in hybrid, though I believe a higher suspension means less fuel efficiency due to "drag".

      Pure is truly the most efficient mode because it even changes climate to eco mode as well. That's why my I individual driving mode is based on its template

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      She was in hybrid. I used pure all the time, as it is more efficient.

    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seti View Post
      I find Hybrid mode isn't as efficient as in Pure mode, though more response and smoother than Pure.

      I use Individual based on Pure template, but only change braking to Dynamic and Suspension to Hybrid. Previously, I used to drive in Pure mode but found suspension a little harder than in hybrid, though I believe a higher suspension means less fuel efficiency due to "drag".

      Pure is truly the most efficient mode because it even changes climate to eco mode as well. That's why my I individual driving mode is based on its template

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      concerning individual driver mode did you manage to find the differences in the Drivers display tab between dynamic and comfort?


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      Quote Originally Posted by Dilinger View Post
      concerning individual driver mode did you manage to find the differences in the Drivers display tab between dynamic and comfort?


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
      Since mine is a T8, Dynamic (Power mode in mine) simply displays a tachometer whereas Comfort/ in my case Hybrid, is the same as Pure mode and displays a label-less range of available battery power available to drive the vehicle.

      This display makes no sense, or is useless when ICE kicks in. Volvo should have ensured it dynamically displays a combo of tachometer and what they have now, just as you could have both mileage and kilometer units displayed on the same dial.

      That way, we could know what engine speed it is revving at when ICE kicks in and whether battery is being charged when we brake.

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    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dilinger View Post
      Ok that is 6.4lt/100km, not bad but not impressive tbh. Of course as said before its considered surely economical.
      If you want the cheapest way to commute then I believe you must go with an all electric vehicle. Unfortunately most all electrics are on the smaller side. Even the Jag I Pace is still somewhat small. If not an all electric then perhaps a hybrid. Here you have an option. The Toyota Highlander Hybrid is a mid size three row vehicle that maxes out price wise around $52k in the US. That vehicle gets approximately 27 to 30 mpg. It has very little battery capacity and can only go around 1 1/2 miles under battery only. There is no charging capability. Very dependable. The only battery plugins that have three row seating are ONE the Volvo XC90 T8. That may change with Ford coming out with the new Explorer Plugin 2020. Otherwise you have a number of Mid Size SUVs like the XC60, Audi, BMW, and Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. NO ONE makes a three row PHEV like the Volvo XC90. I understand wanting to know about the overall mileage. However having driven for many years I know that everyone drives cars differently. You can only guess that the mileage you get is transferrable to someone else. Throw in the different locations and elevations and weather-there is just no way to know. Even the EPA range is based upon a very controlled driving style and loop. Are you trying to cost justify your purchase? Or do you want to feel good about the vehicle you drive? Or both? I drive our Chevy Bolt which is all electric from Santa Barbara to Orange County about 140 miles. When I arrive I usually have around 90 miles of range left. My wife does the same trip and ends up with 130 miles remaining. She ends up doing better than EPA and I end up worst. The Volvo XC90 is an extraordinary car that was a first in the industry. If you want/need the space there just isn't anything out there that will work. If you are flexible on space then there are a number of other options that will give you a few additional mpg. The XC60 T8 will do slightly better as would the new upcoming XC40 T8. At this price point (XC90 T8) there is nothing else that comes close with three row seating. Having said that your pencil accounting cannot justify spending the kind of money that the XC90 T8 commands unless you keep the car for a zillion years over other vehicles. A 2020 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid gets almost 40 mpg and sells for around $33k in the US at half the price of the XC90 T8. I would recommend you just buy the XC90 T8 and enjoy.
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      Quote Originally Posted by drmanny3 View Post
      If you want the cheapest way to commute then I believe you must go with an all electric vehicle.
      True dat.

      Unfortunately most all electrics are on the smaller side.
      Also true. The exception is the Tesla Model X, which is what my wife switched to from her XC90 T8 over the summer. 3-row 7-seater with similar space to the XC90.

      Are you trying to cost justify your purchase? Or do you want to feel good about the vehicle you drive? Or both?
      Good questions. That same commute that my wife averaged 37 MPG on with the T8 (1.46 gallons, $4.44 at my local current premium gas price, plus the $0.64 in electricity, so call it $5 even), she now averages about 16 kWh (0.47 gallon energy equivalent, $1.20 at my current electrical rate). So each day she commutes, she saves about $3.80, or $19/week. The up-front cost of the vehicle is more (around $89k all-in for a 7-seater long-range Model X vs $72k for a similarly-equipped XC90 T8 Momentum before all tax credits), but energy savings are significant and there's virtually no maintenance outside of tires and wipers.

      The Volvo XC90 is an extraordinary car that was a first in the industry.
      Agreed! Which is why we owned one for 3 years, and liked it quite a bit. However, it's now outclassed until the all-electric XC90 arrives. The cabin tech inside the Volvo doesn't come close to that in the Tesla, nor does the driving experience. I am eagerly awaiting the electric XC40 reveal this month to see how competitive Volvo will be with their BEV offerings.

      If you want/need the space there just isn't anything out there that will work.
      Definitely not the case; the X actually is remarkably similar in 3rd-row seating space, and has more cargo space when all seats are up, largely due to the Tesla's bigger sub-floor in the rear and the inclusion of the frunk. We've done extensive road trips in both vehicles, filling them to the gills, and while both are fantastic trip vehicles, we've found the X to be more flexible.

      Having said that your pencil accounting cannot justify spending the kind of money that the XC90 T8 commands unless you keep the car for a zillion years over other vehicles. ... I would recommend you just buy the XC90 T8 and enjoy.
      Definitely agree that it's difficult to justify the greater cost of a PHEV or a BEV solely on improved efficiency. You've got to also value the improved driving experience (of a BEV over any internal-combustion engine vehicle, or of a PHEV over a non-electrified ICE vehicle), the reduced emissions, more exciting tech, etc.
      Last edited by Zaxxon; 10-02-2019 at 11:13 AM.

    18. #16
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      Guys,

      Nice input from both and quite valid points.
      Just to be clear, i am not trying to justify any purchase or feel good about my car.

      I am collecting views and opinions, because i live in the other part of the world where things are quite different. (For example there is no Tesla presence in Greece, except if you buy independently with a price range to 150k-180k EUROS). Also the price difference between B5 and T8 here is 15k Euros, without any incentives except from 285 Euros road tax annually.
      Moreover Diesel is around 1.3€/Litre vs 1,68€/Litre for Standard Unleaded. Premium is around 1,9€ i guess.

      I had the chance to test drive for 4 days each, the D5, the Range Rover Sport PHEV, and the Velar D240, for a comparison and live with them using my daily routine.
      I did not have the chance to test drive the T8, except for 10 miles, so i don't know from first hand how it would be living with it.
      The only experience i have is a weekend 500km trip with the XC90 D5 along with a XC60 T8.

      Its very interesting exchanging and collecting views from other people from the other part of the world..
      Its simply an experiences discussion, not a VS thread.

      The T8 vs Diesel debate for me ended when i evaluated long-term reliability after the 5 year warranty for the powertrain (valid for Greece) and when i realised there are no-charging points here.

      All in all the most important fact, is that when you spend that much for a vehicle (T8 is 99.980€ Inscription here without extras), its not about saving money from fuel , but instead the driving experience you get from the car.
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      Here is somewhat anonymized driving journal https://pastebin.com/X3N409UH (will disappear in a day).
      My usual commute is 42 miles (84 round trip). Half of it fast moving, half traffic jam. On the way back those 20 miles of
      traffic jam are usually around 40-60min. At morning better. A couple of weeks ago I got hov sticker which allows
      me to drive to work mostly without delay but on the way back its not helping much (just saying in case somebody
      will try to analyze, to show that driving pattern changed a bit).
      I usually charge at home and work. At work charging limited to 2h so i try to arrive to work with 1/4 of charge left
      in order to be able to use more of it in traffic jam - seems more efficient.
      Also I always on the way to work/back define destination - this way battery seems to be used more efficiently

      Till I had a couple of of road trips recently (1500m or so) car was showing 52mpg. After them it dropped down to 45.
      I usually fill a full tank once in two weeks. Previously with Rav4 I was filling tank once a week.

      During the road trip I was averaging around 30mpg when driving on very long and flat highways. Driving through the
      mountains were bumping it up to 50+.

    20. #18
      Junior Member Dilinger's Avatar
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      T8 Real Mpg

      Thank you, that is very useful information and insight. Thank you for that, but i wasn’t able to see the file you sent since i am mobile now..

      How come the mountains gave you 50mpg?


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      Quote Originally Posted by Dilinger View Post
      Thank you, that is very useful information and insight. Thank you for that, but i wasn’t able to see the file you sent since i am mobile now..

      How come the mountains gave you 50mpg?


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      I guess a lot of descents that allowed to recharge battery. B gear was helpful

    22. #20
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      T8 Real Mpg

      My 2016 T8 has returned 37.9 mpg (US) over 40,800 miles.

      I live in Swiss mountains so I roll downhill and around on electric power in the morning and drive uphill on the way home.

      I have between 1 and 4 passengers most of the time. I don’t overthink my driving to get best economy, it has the polestar tune and sometimes I drive the car quite hard. (It rolls like a mattress but you can work it through corners at quite some speed if you ignore the passenger screams.)

      We do four intercontinental trips a year that ruin the economy because after the first 20 miles it’s all ICE driving.

      [Edit - additional thoughts below]

      We wanted an SUV AWD for snow, 7 seats and a large boot for freighting stuff. I wanted a Range Rover but the dealer couldn’t bring himself to sell me a car.

      We turned away from Tesla because of time to charge and availability of Tesla charging stations when travelling. I still would.

      So we ended up at Volvo, looking at a very chic looking car that was significantly cheaper than both other options. We bought it. However....

      The big problem I see with the T8 is the tiny, very highly strung engine. It has to work extremely hard and often has to cut in from cold when the car is already travelling at highway speeds or pulling up a mountain. My engine sounds like a bag of spanners, and the garage thinks this is normal for a direct injection, twin turbo, supercharged engine.

      My car has done 40,000 miles and it’s starting to feel tired. A big, old tech Range Rover just won’t suffer that way. The new X7 has a six pot block + electric motor so it doesn’t feel stressed.

      Don’t get me wrong, I like what Volvo has done. They set the standard for interior design, and solved AWD with PHEV. They also sweated a lot of power from such a small block. But it’s a compromised vehicle and I’m looking to replace it with something else. Either full electric with intercontinental range or bigger block + PHEV.

      If only that bloody RR dealer could be bothered to do some selling....
      Last edited by Obnic; 10-02-2019 at 03:44 PM.
      2016 T8 Polestar

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      True dat.



      Also true. The exception is the Tesla Model X, which is what my wife switched to from her XC90 T8 over the summer. 3-row 7-seater with similar space to the XC90.



      Good questions. That same commute that my wife averaged 37 MPG on with the T8 (1.46 gallons, $4.44 at my local current premium gas price, plus the $0.64 in electricity, so call it $5 even), she now averages about 16 kWh (0.47 gallon energy equivalent, $1.20 at my current electrical rate). So each day she commutes, she saves about $3.80, or $19/week. The up-front cost of the vehicle is more (around $89k all-in for a 7-seater long-range Model X vs $72k for a similarly-equipped XC90 T8 Momentum before all tax credits), but energy savings are significant and there's virtually no maintenance outside of tires and wipers.



      Agreed! Which is why we owned one for 3 years, and liked it quite a bit. However, it's now outclassed until the all-electric XC90 arrives. The cabin tech inside the Volvo doesn't come close to that in the Tesla, nor does the driving experience. I am eagerly awaiting the electric XC40 reveal this month to see how competitive Volvo will be with their BEV offerings.



      Definitely not the case; the X actually is remarkably similar in 3rd-row seating space, and has more cargo space when all seats are up, largely due to the Tesla's bigger sub-floor in the rear and the inclusion of the frunk. We've done extensive road trips in both vehicles, filling them to the gills, and while both are fantastic trip vehicles, we've found the X to be more flexible.



      Definitely agree that it's difficult to justify the greater cost of a PHEV or a BEV solely on improved efficiency. You've got to also value the improved driving experience (of a BEV over any internal-combustion engine vehicle, or of a PHEV over a non-electrified ICE vehicle), the reduced emissions, more exciting tech, etc.

      You are right on. I did not even think about the Tesla X. It does accomplish many of the things that makes the XC90 T8 a great car and it is all electric. I have been thinking about our next electric car. You can purchase a used 2016 Tesla X for around $60,000 that would have life time use of the supercharger stations. At least that what I understand. I assume that the free charging would go to the buyer of the used car. I have not verified that though. Thank you for your comments.
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      My understanding of those early free lifetime Supercharging vehicles is they generally do not transfer. I've heard of exceptions, though. They do periodically offer it on new vehicles, though.

    25. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dilinger View Post
      Guys,

      Nice input from both and quite valid points.
      Just to be clear, i am not trying to justify any purchase or feel good about my car.

      I am collecting views and opinions, because i live in the other part of the world where things are quite different. (For example there is no Tesla presence in Greece, except if you buy independently with a price range to 150k-180k EUROS). Also the price difference between B5 and T8 here is 15k Euros, without any incentives except from 285 Euros road tax annually.
      Moreover Diesel is around 1.3€/Litre vs 1,68€/Litre for Standard Unleaded. Premium is around 1,9€ i guess.

      I had the chance to test drive for 4 days each, the D5, the Range Rover Sport PHEV, and the Velar D240, for a comparison and live with them using my daily routine.
      I did not have the chance to test drive the T8, except for 10 miles, so i don't know from first hand how it would be living with it.
      The only experience i have is a weekend 500km trip with the XC90 D5 along with a XC60 T8.

      Its very interesting exchanging and collecting views from other people from the other part of the world..
      Its simply an experiences discussion, not a VS thread.

      The T8 vs Diesel debate for me ended when i evaluated long-term reliability after the 5 year warranty for the powertrain (valid for Greece) and when i realised there are no-charging points here.

      All in all the most important fact, is that when you spend that much for a vehicle (T8 is 99.980€ Inscription here without extras), its not about saving money from fuel , but instead the driving experience you get from the car.
      I do not understand what you want to know concerning the XC90 T8. In your last sentence you say "its not about saving money from fuel , but instead the driving experience you get from the car" Can you be more specific. Are you asking about acceleration, comfort, ability to drive fast on mountain roads???? The T8 in power mode behaves in a spirited way. It is still a large car and will never behave like a sport sedan or sports car. The T8 demands Premium fuel not regular, so you should keep that in mind. Range Rover does make great looking but expensive vehicles. The word out is never keep a Range Rover beyond warranty.
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      Quote Originally Posted by drmanny3 View Post
      I do not understand what you want to know concerning the XC90 T8. In your last sentence you say "its not about saving money from fuel , but instead the driving experience you get from the car" Can you be more specific. Are you asking about acceleration, comfort, ability to drive fast on mountain roads???? The T8 in power mode behaves in a spirited way. It is still a large car and will never behave like a sport sedan or sports car. The T8 demands Premium fuel not regular, so you should keep that in mind. Range Rover does make great looking but expensive vehicles. The word out is never keep a Range Rover beyond warranty.
      T5, T6, T8 all require premium fuel.

      T8 is great when in low speed, either in parking lot or heavy traffic. No engine noise, no exhaust, quiet and comfortable.

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      I thought premium was only recommended for the t5?

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      Quote Originally Posted by pkulak View Post
      I thought premium was only recommended for the t5?
      All, as in manual.

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    29. #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      My wife's drive was similar. 54 miles round-trip, suburb to suburb with regular streets plus a bunch of highway, but in traffic so speeds were not generally that high.

      She charged nightly and averaged around 37 mpg.
      Is she not able to charge it prior to her return trip? If the OP has the opportunity to recharge prior to each outbound and inbound trip their fuel efficiency would improve. 37mpg for a round trip of 54mi is pretty good while only charging overnight for a one way benefit from the battery and considering the return is as a standard hybrid (Prius-like).

      I’ve done similar trips (going to our local IKEA) of about 26mi each way and having a fully charged battery for each leg I was able to achieve 57.4mpg roundtrip. This of course is highly variable as traffic conditions and topography will dramatically impact MPG. On the most recent trip to IKEA I achieved 76.3mpg on the outbound and 46.2mpg on the inbound (rear was full of enough drawers and trays for 2 closets, easily an extra 100kg). Our topography is such that the return has more elevation gain than on the outbound. Tracking elevation in VOC would be a cool feature for the T8 much like you can track efficiency at any point during a trip.
      Last edited by VolvoUhu; 10-03-2019 at 01:07 AM.
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    30. #28
      Junior Member Dilinger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      T5, T6, T8 all require premium fuel.

      T8 is great when in low speed, either in parking lot or heavy traffic. No engine noise, no exhaust, quiet and comfortable.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      For me the low speed comfort of not hearing the ICE is the best advantage it has.

      I wish the mild hybrids would offer 2-4 miles range like in some other brands ( i think RR).


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    31. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by VolvoUhu View Post
      Is she not able to charge it prior to her return trip? If the OP has the opportunity to recharge prior to each outbound and inbound trip their fuel efficiency would improve. 37mpg for a round trip of 54mi is pretty good while only charging overnight for a one way benefit from the battery and considering the return is as a standard hybrid (Prius-like).

      I’ve done similar trips (going to our local IKEA) of about 26mi each way and having a fully charged battery for each leg I was able to achieve 57.4mpg roundtrip. This of course is highly variable as traffic conditions and topography will dramatically impact MPG. On the most recent trip to IKEA I achieved 76.3mpg on the outbound and 46.2mpg on the inbound (rear was full of enough drawers and trays for 2 closets, easily an extra 100kg). Our topography is such that the return has more elevation gain than on the outbound. Tracking elevation in VOC would be a cool feature for the T8 much like you can track efficiency at any point during a trip.
      No, she had no charging available at work. Really wish she did!

    32. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zaxxon View Post
      My understanding of those early free lifetime Supercharging vehicles is they generally do not transfer. I've heard of exceptions, though. They do periodically offer it on new vehicles, though.
      You are correct that not all Tesla have free Supercharging, and in more recent years it's impossible to generically say which VIN do or don't as Tesla has changed their T&C many times depending on the order/build date of the vehicle. In my particular case with a Model S I had built in Sept 2015, I have written confirmation from Tesla that the free Supercharging on my MS will transfer to the next owner unless sold via auction or wholesale. It is a distinction and benefit my "old" MS has, that a new one built today does not. My MS will be going up for sale in the new few weeks to be replaced by my on-order XC60 T8.
      Last edited by BertL; 10-03-2019 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Removed rest of my off-topic dissertation, saving it for another thread ;)
      Bert

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    33. #31
      Member drmanny3's Avatar
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      Welcome BertL to our family. I can appreciate your comments about Tesla. Certainly they have created a new paradigm in automotive purchasing as well as pushing the boundaries of electric cars. Lexus as you noted has been pretty good about meeting a level of refinement above and beyond most car brands. I can recall when the first hybrid from Lexus was delayed by six months because it did not transition smoothly from battery to engine. People were upset, however Lexus was determined that their launch would be successful. I wish more organizations worried about their product quality rather than being first across the finish line. In my mind building a plugin or PHEV is a complex endeavor. Not only do you have the traditional drive train but you must integrate essentially an electric powertrain and make both work in harmony. I thoroughly enjoy driving the XC90 T8. The XC60 T8 should offer slightly improved performance due to lower overall weight. The T8s also seem to package a bit better reducing overall noise. Won't be as quiet as your Model S however. I feel a certain pride in driving my Volvo. The New Volvo organization has a real spirit and can do attitude that probably has some parallel to Tesla. I especially like their vision for the future with respect to electrification of their offerings. That is a balls out vision that I believe no other automotive organization was willing to pursue. When it is safe the rest will follow. While many complain concerning glitches etcetera, we should keep in mind how brave and committed Volvo is to our future. Geely does not get a lot of credit but they in reality have given Volvo the opportunity to shine.
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