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Made in China car reliability

22K views 98 replies 43 participants last post by  R-Pow3R3d 
#1 ·
Three months ago I leased an XC60 T5 Inscription and was pretty surprised and disappointed to hear that it was made in China.
Has this affected the car’s reliability, finish, etc compared when it was not produced there?
I have a pretty rough engine when idling that once I described as a “good diesel” engine, very noisy HVAC system and very noisy power lift gate.
We’re XC60 always like that? For a luxury car that costs so much, I am pretty dissatisfied with the above 3 things.
Coming from Lexus and Acura were those 3 things are non existent, is tough.
 
#2 ·
Volvo is owned by a Chinese company called Geely. They are going to make sure (as a matter of pride) that the assembly will match or be better than what the other factories build. China has huge industrial capabilities and a skilled workeforce. IMHO, people generally assume China= Low quality, and they couldn’t be more wrong.

My China built 2019 T8 has a better build quality than my 2010 XC60 that was built in Ghent.

Did you discuss these 3 items with your service advisor?
 
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#15 ·
Volvo is owned by a Chinese company called Geely. They are going to make sure (as a matter of pride) that the assembly will match or be better than what the other factories build. China has huge industrial capabilities and a skilled workeforce. IMHO, people generally assume China= Low quality, and they couldn't be more wrong.

My China built 2019 T8 has a better build quality than my 2010 XC60 that was built in Ghent.

Did you discuss these 3 items with your service advisor?
Chinqa is certainly perceived in many cases with cheap mass manufacturing processes.
Most manufacturers of consumer electronics, toys, building materials, etc etc manufacture in China because they have cheap labor, a great supply chain and lax environmental laws.
Glad to hear that your Chinese made car is more reliable than the one made in Sweden.
 
#4 ·
This?
a "good diesel" engine, very noisy HVAC system and very noisy power lift gate.?
HVAC is not noisy. I usually set level to 3 and it is quiet and efficient. Level 4 and 5 are loud of course, expected.
power lift gate makes some normal sound (in a good way as you could stand there not noticing it), but not noisy to me.
 
#5 ·
I have the same problem with A/C.. Speed 1 is fine, but it maxes out at speed 3 with maximum air flow. Setting speed 4 or 5 does not change the blower speed at all. I wish that there were more adjustments available because sometimes speed 2 is not enough, but speed 3 is overpowering.

I also have an issue when idling ICE (I own a T8, so obviously no problem when ICE is off).. there is a definite vibration felt throughout the car.
 
#7 ·
Make sure you are using manual mode. The auto mode is slight differently as it tops at the speed you set.
I don't feel 3 is noisy at all. 4 and 5 is very different.
Try change the vent to both chest and foot also let you feel the difference.
 
#6 ·
I have a 2017 xc90 and I can tell you that even though this model was built in Sweden, the reliability has been the absolute worst. I think the issue is a Volvo issue not a matter of where it's being built. I have never owned a car this unreliable in my life...

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#8 ·
I was just in my workplace parking lot with a co worker who has a Lexus RX and her power liftgate was louder than my XC60. We had what i would describe as a liftoff :partywave:
 
#9 ·
#20 ·
This is clearly your first DI engine. They're all "diesel like". This isn't specific to Volvo.

It is indeed.
Perhaps I am spoiled with how smooth the V6 are.

Turn the fan down to a normal level.

I don't know what normal is to you. The fan in 1 is not enough. In 2 is just moderate. During hot summer days I need 3 at is super loud.

First noise complaint I've ever read about a motorized tailgate.
I will try to post the decibels level of my XC60 vs the MDX.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Three months ago I leased an XC60 T5 Inscription and was pretty surprised and disappointed to hear that it was made in China.
Has this affected the car's reliability, finish, etc compared when it was not produced there?
I have a pretty rough engine when idling that once I described as a "good diesel" engine, very noisy HVAC system and very noisy power lift gate.
We're XC60 always like that? For a luxury car that costs so much, I am pretty dissatisfied with the above 3 things.
Coming from Lexus and Acura were those 3 things are non existent, is tough.
My 2018, Made in Sweden OSD XC60 also sounds like a diesel in low speed travel. When I give it some gas the engine shutters as if it is in too high a gear. Usually seconds later it downshifts and all is fine. My neighbors have asked me before if it is in fact a diesel. While my ac fans are quiet the ac shutter actuators constantly make noise. I'm guessing it needs a software update at my next service. My power tailgate is no noisier than any of our past Volvos with a power tailgate. The ride in my XC60 is rougher than the ride of our 19 XC40 which was made in Belgium. I'm looking into new tires possibly for next spring. Have had rotors warp at 6800 miles (and on the XC40 at 3600 miles). All of this has no bearing on where the car(s) are being built. These are Volvo quirks that will probably continue even when the XC90 is built in SC. And it's my opinion the price of a car has no bearing on actual quality/reliability. You pay more you typically expect more.
 
#13 ·
Mine was built in Sweden and I admit that I liked that idea when I purchased it. However, if you look at the window sticker, it notes that there is 40% Chinese content. Most of the parts are built in China. Does it really matter where it was assembled?
 
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#14 ·
Madw in China car reliability

Three months ago I leased an XC60 T5 Inscription and was pretty surprised and disappointed to hear that it was made in China.
Has this affected the car's reliability, finish, etc compared when it was not produced there?
I have a pretty rough engine when idling that once I described as a "good diesel" engine, very noisy HVAC system and very noisy power lift gate.
We're XC60 always like that? For a luxury car that costs so much, I am pretty dissatisfied with the above 3 things.
Coming from Lexus and Acura were those 3 things are non existent, is tough.
My 2018 XC60 was one of the first to be assembled in China. I was concerned upon learning this but must say that the quality/workmanship has been at least equal to previous Volvo's assembled in Europe (most recent was a 2015.5 XC60). Like all of my 6 previous Volvos, I have never had any serious quality issues regardless of location where assembly was done.
 
#29 ·
Interesting question and difficult answer.
Japanese and German engineered cars assembled in the US seem to be fine for the most part. However I do not know if the they fare better, worse or the same as the same cars assembled in Japan an Germany.
On the other hand most American engineered cars built over here don't have good track records at all.
 
#30 · (Edited)
@Lalin You’ve pretty much answered your original question. Anyone can build a high quality product anywhere- it’s not about geography, or nationality- but rather quality control. ALL iPhones are built in China- just as ALL Touaregs and Cayennes are built in Slovakia. All Merc GLEs (and previously MLs) are built State-side- as well as all BMW X6. Etc, etc. My XC60 was built in Gothenburg - but I really couldn’t care less if it was assembled in China - or US for that matter.
 
#31 ·
@Lalin You've pretty much answered your original question. Anyone can build a high quality product anywhere- it's not about geography, or nationality- but rather quality control. ALL iPhones are built in China- just as ALL Touaregs and Cayennes are built in Slovakia. All Merc GLEs (and previously MLs) are built State-side- as well as all BMW X6. Etc, etc. My XC60 was built in Gothenburg - but I really couldn't care less if it was assembled in China - or US for that matter.
I am in total agreement with your statement.
Nevertheless it was a surprise to me that Volvo's were built in China and also disappointed with the 3 issues I mentioned.
I asked the forum about them to see if there was a pattern of quality issues when the production was moved to China. Apparently there is no relation.
 
#32 ·
Average hourly wage of a factory worker in China is $1.36 compared to the average factory worker in the Western Hemisphere of $23.32. Price of a XC60 made in China is the same as an XC60 made in the Western Hemisphere. If Volvo isn’t going to pass that savings onto me, I see absolutely no incentive to have my vehicle made in China. Plus, I believe a factory worker who actually owns and cares for an automobile has a better eye towards understanding automotive quality verses a factory worker who has never driven or owned an automobile.
 
#33 ·
Average hourly wage of a factory worker in China is $1.36 compared to the average factory worker in the Western Hemisphere of $23.32. Price of a XC60 made in China is the same as an XC60 made in the Western Hemisphere. If Volvo isn't going to pass that savings onto me, I see absolutely no incentive to have my vehicle made in China. Plus, I believe a factory worker who actually owns and cares for an automobile has a better eye towards understanding automotive quality verses a factory worker who has never driven or owned an automobile.
Most young folks own a car there... Salary is also higher than what you said.

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#38 ·
Three months ago I leased an XC60 T5 Inscription and was pretty surprised and disappointed to hear that it was made in China.
Has this affected the car's reliability, finish, etc compared when it was not produced there?
I have a pretty rough engine when idling that once I described as a "good diesel" engine, very noisy HVAC system and very noisy power lift gate.
We're XC60 always like that? For a luxury car that costs so much, I am pretty dissatisfied with the above 3 things.
Coming from Lexus and Acura were those 3 things are non existent, is tough.
Never owned a Lexus but owned 2 Acura back in 04-05. I hated it. 2 brand new TLs and paint was already peeling from the front bumper, where the headlights meet the bumper. They used staplers to hold the e-brake boot down. Leather seats that actually melted. Misaligned trims all around. It also drove horribly on the highway. Unstable at high speeds. Great 6mt transmission though with a great clutch travel.

Made in China does not mean junk anymore. There are high quality products and cheap quality products that are Made in China. The same goes for any factory in any country. If you're so disappointed in Made in China, might as well donate everything you own. The mobile device or computer you are using to visit swedespeed? Made in China or contains majority of parts that are Made in China.

I remember a long time ago, when Made in Korea was considered low quality. For a while it was. But look how far South Korea has come. Samsung, LG, Kia, Hyundai? They were the laughing stock back in the days, but look at them now. Juggernauts in their fields. They are now known to make high quality products. This is where China is now. It doesn't matter where it's made.
 
#44 ·
But look how far South Korea has come. Samsung, LG, Kia, Hyundai? They were the laughing stock back in the days, but look at them now.
Yah, really, look at them now. Junk LG fridges, junk cars, cell phones that blow up, junk copy cat ramen, junkier approriated sushi, horrible stolen Chinese food.

The only thing Korean I allow onto my property is the Mrs, and on most days our half Korean kids.
 
#42 ·
Maybe dealers don't want to stock wagons, as they didn't see much sales from V90/V90CC in past years, partially a result because V90 is only for custom order.
So we don't see V60/C60CC wagons stock, but American only buy cars from dealer's lot after seeing them.
 
#43 ·
Dealers are only going to stock cars that they believe that they can sell, and it's not just Volvo. Taking a look online at the closest Volvo, Audi and Merecedes dealers, my local Volvo has 10 V60/V60CC, the local Audi has just 1 A4 Allroad, and our local Mercedes lists just 5 E Class Wagons. There's also only 1 Buick TourX within 50 miles and 1 Jaguar Sportbrake.
 
#48 ·
I like the fact that my 4 Volvos are all made in Sweden (last one OSD 2018 XC60 T6). Last one was OSD and I am looking forward to another OSD (XC90) next year before they switch to US production.
Yes there are some Volvos made in China, but I prefer made in Sweden, no major issues with the ones I have! I did rent an XC60 in May this year, It drove well no real issues, had one switch damaged with 4K miles on it. Could be renters could be something else, but to each his own......
 
#51 ·
V60 is a special order vehicle only. It is not on dealer lots.

The big issue with special ordering it's that it becomes difficult to use particular incentives. I bought my vehicle with the Costco deal and had to take one of the lot.

The sedan version is built in the states. Poster above it's correct that wagon is built in Sweden.
 
#53 ·
Dealers don't want to pay interest all year a car that won't sell for months and then hope to break even. Zero incentive there... I have been in the car industry for over 10 years and still can't understand why a majority of people don't just factory order what they want.
 
#61 ·
Three months ago I leased an XC60 T5 Inscription and was pretty surprised and disappointed to hear that it was made in China.
Has this affected the car's reliability, finish, etc compared when it was not produced there?
I have a pretty rough engine when idling that once I described as a "good diesel" engine, very noisy HVAC system and very noisy power lift gate.
We're XC60 always like that? For a luxury car that costs so much, I am pretty dissatisfied with the above 3 things.
Coming from Lexus and Acura were those 3 things are non existent, is tough.
I own two "identical" 2018 XC60 Inscriptions. The two XC60s have the exact same specs except the color. One is made in Sweden and one in China. I also own a 2019 XC40 R-design made in Belgium. The XC60 made in China rattles and squeaks and has parts that don't fit properly. The sunroof rattles constantly. The one made in Sweden is quiet and has none of these issues. The XC40 is also free of problems. The dealer has tried and failed to fix the issues with the Chinese made XC60 over half a dozen times. It still rattles.

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#62 ·
I have a 2018 S90 T5 that was built in China. Honestly can’t say if that is the issue or if it’s just overall poor design, however this has been hands down the most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned in over 50 years of driving. Car is going back to dealer Fri for the 3rd time in 5 months to fix a torque converter/hard shifting issue that 2 prior software updates have failed to fix. Several other different issues with it as well. After 3 tries it becomes a lemon law candidate.
 
#63 ·
My XC40 purchased Nov/2020 is China Build. I was initially disappointed at this, however now that I've experienced the drive, I'm 100% confident in the China manufacturing. Build quality is perfect, no issues at all.
My wife's MG ZS however (also Geely owned) has been an utter disappointment, with build issues, recalls, dead on the road with towing required a few times. The difference seems to be that the MG is built and marketed to a price point with obvious compromises. The Volvo is built to a quality level.
I guess you get what you pay for !
 
#64 · (Edited)
Late in the game but here's my 2c: I would not buy a Volvo made in China, just as I would not buy anything else unless it's absolutely necessary and I have no choice. China is a country with most patriotic people in the whole world and they only care about themselves and "Mother China". The CCP has one agenda only - take over the world... and that does not necessarily mean militarily or physically. By the way, I'm generalizing as it's obvious that country of that size can not be summed up with one sentence and all the people put under the same umbrella. I'm surprised there's no mention of COVID on this thread. The general consensus is that it came from China, and it was man-made. You can then further expand on that (with little to no evidence) that it was engineered for military use. A fact remains that THEY contained it better than any other country in the world. It comes down to this to me - do I want to support and indirectly finance that regime and their goal? At some point a man has to stand for what he believes and not compromise or sell his ideals for "stuff".

I see people bringing the quality of iPhones as an example; I believe that example is flawed because there's no basis for comparison. Due to economic reasons that device was produced in China, and I should stress out - the economic considerations were the only reason it was developed in China, not due to the country exceptional skills and QA... but my point was that if 10 or 15 years ago, the development/production of iPhone was done somewhere else, we now might have a different product with possibly better quality and more advanced features... we just don't know. It's different with cars - we have a basis for quality from previous years and production origins so I guess time will eventually tell... my gut tells me that if we had a way of making a fair comparison (obviously cars are different these days) Chinese made cars will not measure up. On the other hand, today's generation doesn't know any better, so they'll just accept "Made in China" as the norm... good or bad.
 
#69 ·
what's this world coming to?..."kids these days aren't even xenophobic anymore."

You're not even worth arguing with...reported.
 
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#65 ·
To further expand - I don't think anything of major significance was ever invented in China and I don't know if it ever will. So "non-Chinese" Volvos produced in China may be ok for now, but remember, it is a Chinese firm that owns Volvo and eventually... assuming that they won't come up with any major innovation...when the existing technology becomes old (hint: Blackberry), they won't be competitive anymore. Unless of course they steal technology as they are well known for that.
 
#66 ·
Indeed. Those silly Chinese never invented anything. They can only copy things!
I mean, sure, they invented coins and paper bills, but who needs money?
And yes, gunpowder. But it's not like guns are useful, are they?
They had writing about a thousand years before the rest of the world, but who needs to write or read? You can listed to Rush on radio and watch Fox on your TV. Letters do not matter!

And they keep inventing other silly things - like the compass! Who the heck needs a compass? Or printing? Who prints stuff? Or paper? The world would be better without paper!

I am not going to comment on the rest of the thread, because this is beyond bigoted. If you want to spout racist nonsense, at least do a bare minimum of research, if your level of education is so low to start with.

More seriously - China is out-innovating the world, right now. Patent counts don't lie. The two most important technologies - batteries and AI - they are a decade ahead. We don't even have real 5g in the USA. Go to Shenzen - a city of self driving electric buses - and any American city is stuck in the middle-ages in comparison.

And, to be clear, I am Italian. I have no horse in this race - except for a deep-seated disgust towards racist nonsense.

Finally, I'll tell you one thing - after having worked with car manufacturers in China, Europe, and the USA, I'd take a car made in China over one made in South Carolina any day...
 
#68 ·
jpnwdc - fair enough - I think there is a valid debate to be had about innovation in China vs. the USA (and my money is on China, but I can see how there are valid arguments on either side).

But my post was really a reply to npn - and to "I don't think anything of major significance was ever invented in China and I don't know if it ever will" - which is utter nonsense.


Now, China vs. USA on innovation.
First, let me tell you where I am coming from. My first job was in a patent office in the USA. I have worked for technology incubators on the three continents (North America, Europe, Asia - East Asia) and then for various VC firms (in Switzerland, Hong Kong, Singapore, and KSA) - one of those was heavily involved in the automotive side. After a brief stint at some hedge funds, I am now semi-retired and working in education. I work at an R1 and do research on the financing of innovation (my PhD is in Finance, I am not a tech person - but I do have an MS in stats from a college of Engineering).

Chinese firms spend more on R&D than US firms (about 4% of revenues, annually, vs 1.5%) - albeit, Chinese R&D expenditure as a proportion of GDP is lower than in the USA (2% vs. 2.5%).
Chinese firms patent a lot more. We see about 1m patents filed per year in China, Vs. 600k in the USA. There was a lot of research, early on, about Chinese patents being lower quality. But China out-patents the USA in Europe - which presumably applies an equal standard. Xuan Tian is probably the biggest worldwide expert - I suggest looking up some of his work - he is Chinese, but it is all published in US peer-reviewed journals. Serious journals. VCs that buy patents pay as much for Chinese ones as for American ones - either they are fools, or this difference in quality is not real.

We could hypothesize that the US has somehow better "talent" - but there are more engineers with a PhD from a US university in China than in the USA (pretty crazy, isn't it?). The truth is, the USA educates the best engineers in the world, then kicks them out with a hostile immigration system. China welcomes them with open arms.

You say old technologies... well, what about batteries? AI? Self-driving cars? Solar panels? How come China is ahead in 5g, while we are rolling out "5g-lite" that is an absolute joke because we don't have the technology? How come our trains are slower? When is the last time the USA landed on the dark side of the moon? Indeed, never.

I give "American ingenuity" as much credit as I give "Italian design." As a kid, growing up in Italy, I saw the stagnation, and then decline, of the country. For twenty (thirty? forty?) years, people in Italy have deluded themselves on the idea that the stagnation was temporary, that, ultimately, nobody could match Italian design, and that would resurrect the Italian economy. How well has that worked out?

I see the exact same delusion playing out right now in the USA. There is a blind faith in "American ingenuity" or the "American entrepreneurial spirit" - all loosely defined concepts that, somehow, are failing to translate into outcomes.

Don't get me wrong - I hope you are right. This is one instances in which I would rather be wrong, frankly. I would rather live in a world in which the USA is still the superpower. But that is wishful thinking. China is building one aircraft carrier per year. You do the math - how long till they catch up?
 
#80 · (Edited)
.

Don't get me wrong - I hope you are right. This is one instances in which I would rather be wrong, frankly. I would rather live in a world in which the USA is still the superpower. But that is wishful thinking. China is building one aircraft carrier per year. You do the math - how long till they catch up?
China made the first aircraft carrier in 2012 with great help from Russia, the US made the first aircraft carrier 80 years ago
China does not have an aviation industry, it buys fighter planes from Russia and modifies them, it buys passenger planes from the US and the EU, that is proof of a country's development
China has been trying to make its processor for 20 years, but Intel and AMD are constantly ahead of them ......and ...and
China has 300 car tire factories, but in tests those tires in the EU are catastrophic, you know why, because they only copy world-famous brands and do not enter anything into testing and development....and .....and

Did you know that according to a 2006 UN report, 160 million Chinese did not have access to electricity

Please list only 3 Chinese brands that are popular in the EU and the US without being related to mobile telecommunications (not some companies they bought, but original Chinese brands)
 
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