Performance brake pad recommendations please..
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    1. #1
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      Performance brake pad recommendations please..

      Hey guys,

      My Ď07 S60 just doesnít do well in repeated braking in the hills.

      Iíve got the basic 286mm setup. Doesnít take much for them to overheat, and for the pedal to go soft. Weíve got easy cheap upgrades to bigger OEM brakes, maybe at least go up to 305mm.. but I want to see if I can do basics first.

      Maintenance wise, the car is in good shape. Brake fluid is clear and less than a couple years old, lines are good, rotors are less than a year old.. but I also installed pads from Max Brakes last year, and they overheat *way* before the factory pads they replaced. Like, one hard thirty second run on a tight technical downhill, and they seriously degrade. They were cheap, and you get what you pay for, so Iím gonna try replacing those first.

      Brake dust isnít a huge concern, squeaky brakes donít bother me, but it is primarily a street car, so track pads are a bit much.

      What are you guys running? Any and all input and experience appreciated.

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    3. #2
      Banner Advertiser Connor @ ViVA's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mylesph1 View Post
      Hey guys,

      My Ď07 S60 just doesnít do well in repeated braking in the hills.

      Iíve got the basic 286mm setup. Doesnít take much for them to overheat, and for the pedal to go soft. Weíve got easy cheap upgrades to bigger OEM brakes, maybe at least go up to 305mm.. but I want to see if I can do basics first.

      Maintenance wise, the car is in good shape. Brake fluid is clear and less than a couple years old, lines are good, rotors are less than a year old.. but I also installed pads from Max Brakes last year, and they overheat *way* before the factory pads they replaced. Like, one hard thirty second run on a tight technical downhill, and they seriously degrade. They were cheap, and you get what you pay for, so Iím gonna try replacing those first.

      Brake dust isnít a huge concern, squeaky brakes donít bother me, but it is primarily a street car, so track pads are a bit much.

      What are you guys running? Any and all input and experience appreciated.
      I have always been a big fan of Hawk 5.0 and a bigger fan of Porterfield R4S pads. I can special order the R4S pads and give you a SS discount to help you out! Shoot me a PM.

    4. #3
      Senior Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Go 305mm or 316mm from XC90 if you have 17Ē wheels.
      2003 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - M56LK - 206k - K24/Greens/Do88/Quaife/SMF/P2R Clutch/DW300C/H&R/Bilstein TC/316mm & 308mm Brakes - SteveO Tuned
      1999 V70 T5 - Pewter/R Graphite & Alcantara - AW42 - 299k - Daily/Work Wagon
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    6. #4
      Junior Member endothrow's Avatar
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      Iím in process of switching over to Powerstop pads and rotors. They are pretty pedestrian but should be similar to stock feel while having carbon ceramic compound and new SS brake lines. Maybe increased pedal feel?
      If youíre running new stock rotors, Iíd change out the pads ASAP with minimal cost. They shouldnít be running that hot unless youíre riding them the whole way down the hill. If thatís the case, a quick refresher on appropriate braking techniques should keep them cooler.


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    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      Go 305mm or 316mm from XC90 if you have 17Ē wheels.
      18Ē, so Iíve got room. Do the 316mm rotors just require the larger bracket/carrier for the calipers I have?

      Quote Originally Posted by endothrow View Post
      Iím in process of switching over to Powerstop pads and rotors. They are pretty pedestrian but should be similar to stock feel while having carbon ceramic compound and new SS brake lines. Maybe increased pedal feel?
      If youíre running new stock rotors, Iíd change out the pads ASAP with minimal cost. They shouldnít be running that hot unless youíre riding them the whole way down the hill. If thatís the case, a quick refresher on appropriate braking techniques should keep them cooler.
      Iím definitely not riding the brakes, using engine braking where possible. This car is automatic but I still select a lower gear to try and help the brakes a bit. These are roads Iíve driven multiple times with many different cars, and Iíve never had brake fade like this - and more to the point, they werenít this bad on the original pads. I thought it was possible they were dragging, which would explain why theyíre so quick to overheat, but that doesnít seem to be the issue.
      Last edited by mylesph1; 09-26-2019 at 05:01 PM.

    8. #6
      Junior Member endothrow's Avatar
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      That makes sense. Likely just the pad compound then. Any excessive dust?Maybe just swap the fronts to see if you get different results before swapping the rears?
      Thatís a quick fix and could clear up the heat issues. Iíd keep the rotors unless you see some heat glazing on them. If so, getting them surfaced when you add new pads could be the difference.


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    9. #7
      Senior Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      The problem is the stock brakes just suck. They suck on the XC70 and V70 just as much. Theyíre tiny for what the car weighs and while functional, confidence inspiring they are not.
      2003 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - M56LK - 206k - K24/Greens/Do88/Quaife/SMF/P2R Clutch/DW300C/H&R/Bilstein TC/316mm & 308mm Brakes - SteveO Tuned
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    10. #8
      Senior Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mylesph1 View Post
      18Ē, so Iíve got room. Do the 316mm rotors just require the larger bracket/carrier for the calipers I have?



      Iím definitely not riding the brakes, using engine braking where possible. This car is automatic but I still select a lower gear to try and help the brakes a bit. These are roads Iíve driven multiple times with many different cars, and Iíve never had brake fade like this - and more to the point, they werenít this bad on the original pads. I thought it was possible they were dragging, which would explain why theyíre so quick to overheat, but that doesnít seem to be the issue.
      XC90 316mm require an entirely new caliper/carrier/line/pad/rotor as well as enlarging the spindle holes to 14mm.

      I have them on my 03 and itís not wanting for any braking power. Zimmerman rotors, new pagid pads and a fresh flush.

      2003 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - M56LK - 206k - K24/Greens/Do88/Quaife/SMF/P2R Clutch/DW300C/H&R/Bilstein TC/316mm & 308mm Brakes - SteveO Tuned
      1999 V70 T5 - Pewter/R Graphite & Alcantara - AW42 - 299k - Daily/Work Wagon
      1999 V70 T5 - Nautic/R Graphite & Alcantara - M56H - 177k - Rescued
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    11. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      XC90 316mm require an entirely new caliper/carrier/line/pad/rotor as well as enlarging the spindle holes to 14mm.

      I have them on my 03 and itís not wanting for any braking power. Zimmerman rotors, new pagid pads and a fresh flush.

      I've seen you mention XC90 hoses a few times, I'm curious as to why they are required? Quite a few including myself have used the existing hoses without issues. I do believe that it's a good idea to replace old hoses while you're at it, but I don't think XC90 hoses are required.
      2005 XC70 Crystal Green | Hilton | 16T | Bad Swede | 145k mi

    12. #10
      Senior Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Antherzoll View Post
      I've seen you mention XC90 hoses a few times, I'm curious as to why they are required? Quite a few including myself have used the existing hoses without issues. I do believe that it's a good idea to replace old hoses while you're at it, but I don't think XC90 hoses are required.
      Not sure I said XC90 hoses specifically but just new hoses. The actual pn is 30778919. Fitment is all p2 with 316/320mm brake kits.
      2003 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - M56LK - 206k - K24/Greens/Do88/Quaife/SMF/P2R Clutch/DW300C/H&R/Bilstein TC/316mm & 308mm Brakes - SteveO Tuned
      1999 V70 T5 - Pewter/R Graphite & Alcantara - AW42 - 299k - Daily/Work Wagon
      1999 V70 T5 - Nautic/R Graphite & Alcantara - M56H - 177k - Rescued
      1999 V70 T5 - Emerald/Graphite - M56H - 119k - Garage Queen
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    13. #11
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      How long since fluid flush?


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      FCPeuro has SS lines for less than $50 for a full set!!

      That said, on previous cars I've had great success and results with Stop-Tech 309 series pads. They will hold up fade free during auto-X but are street friendly as well. Comparable to Hawk HPS pads, but better in my opinion. Connor above has a good recommendation on the Porterfield R4S pads as well.

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    15. #13
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      Slotted rotors will also help sweep out gasses and help dissipate some heat.


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    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by projectsmorol View Post
      How long since fluid flush?
      Only a year or so, but just standard issue. I have thought about replacing it with something with a higher boiling point.

      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      The problem is the stock brakes just suck. They suck on the XC70 and V70 just as much. Theyíre tiny for what the car weighs and while functional, confidence inspiring they are not.
      Agreed. I had a 2005 A4 Quattro 2.0T and the front brakes were 312mm stock. A simple pad upgrade made them perfect on the same roads that are causing the Volvo problems. Itís not magic, I may need to accept that and upgrade.

      And while Iím at it...

      Quote Originally Posted by projectsmorol View Post
      Slotted rotors will also help sweep out gasses and help dissipate some heat.
      I think I went too far in that direction...



      I went with slotted AND drilled rotors, which are better in theory for heat dissipation... but if the rotors are too small to begin with, Iíve taken away rotor surface, and probably made things worse.

      Iíll look into all the pads mentioned here, give that a shot.. but if it doesnít work, Iíll have to admit defeat and upgrade the whole setup.
      Ď07 S60 2.5T

    17. #15
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      If the two surfaces were flat( pad and rotor) there would actually be less usable surface due to the gasses pushing back against the pads. Its the reason the pads have slots as well.


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    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by projectsmorol View Post
      If the two surfaces were flat( pad and rotor) there would actually be less usable surface due to the gasses pushing back against the pads. Its the reason the pads have slots as well.
      Understood and agreed. The benefit isnít in dispute, but there is a law of diminishing returns that could be at work here.

      By going with drilled and slotted rotors, Iíve got the best possible setup for letting gas escape - but Iíve also reduced total swept brake area. The usual way to solve that issue is.. getting bigger rotors. If Iíve already got small rotors, and I take away TOO much swept area, that could be why the brakes are getting so hot. Thereís a trial and error going on here, Iím trying to find that proper balance.

      If itís simply a bad pad compound, performance pads will solve that, so Iíll try that first. If they still overheat, then increasing the size of the rotor (while probably staying slotted and/or drilled) is the next step I probably take.

    19. #17
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      Could be pad compound, i use ceramic, more dust but better stopping power. The more aggressive the pad compound the faster the rotors wear. ie. race pads. I noticed a lot less issues with iPd lines and premium fluid flush as well. Either way you go, make sure you bed them properly.


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    20. #18
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      I kept the OEM size of 316mm from my car but upgraded all the remaining parts. Went with Tarox F2000 rotors, Carbotech XP12 in the front and XP10 in the rear, IPD brake lines and Castrol SRF racing brake fluid. The pads are noisy, but have a great bite when cold and when hot they are really really good. The XP12 have a friction coefficient of 0.65 and can take up to 1,000 celsius. I couldn't be happier with this setup.
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    21. #19
      Member thaxman's Avatar
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      I went a different way, but am happy with the results. I have the 305 rotors, so results may be different, but I learned that pretty much all rotor blanks come from China, and I trust Chinese steel about as much as I trust Chinese dog treats and baby formula.
      So my rationalization is that if they all come from China, I should at least try to minimize my exposure, so I went with Centric High Carbon alloy rotors. They aren't available on the rears, and not sure if they can be found for 286mm fronts, which kinda sucks. I also have been very happy with their Posi-Quiet ceramic pads. I've put them on multiple cars and they bite well, and emit much less brake dust than semi-metallic.
      Made a couple trips from AZ to San Diego over the Santa Anas fully loaded and they did not heat up or fade. No probs in CA traffic or dealing with left-lane-lame-o's either.
      Still on them a good 50k later, too.
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    22. #20
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      I'm an Uber driver and my XC60 has stock size brakes, but I went with slotted and drilled rotors with akebono ceramic pads in front. Installed at 117,000 miles and I currently have 183,000. I checked my brakes the other day and the pad is still thicker than the width of my index finger. I'll likely get 100,000+ miles out of this setup. Will do the same for the rear when the time comes!

    23. #21
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      ę*brake fluid is less than a couple years old....”
      If you are stressing your brake system and generating a lot of heat, you want a fluid change annually. Brake fluid degrades quickly and under normal usage isn’t a problem but with driving like you are describing it would be a factor.

    24. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Euro1Volvo View Post
      ę*brake fluid is less than a couple years old....Ē
      If you are stressing your brake system and generating a lot of heat, you want a fluid change annually. Brake fluid degrades quickly and under normal usage isnít a problem but with driving like you are describing it would be a factor.
      Well then thereís no reason not to flush out the old fluid, get some higher temp replacement, and see if that helps. Iím going to assume that will help but not solve the issue, Iím leaning towards the Porterfield pads as the next step.

      After that, if i still get fade on one hard downhill run, Iíll have to get serious.

      This isnít even the ďfastĒ car, I donít have any plans or desire to get more power out of the engine, but I really dislike having the brakes underperform.

    25. #23
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      https://www.instagram.com/p/B3RnDVMoBxY/ It is possible to put, with minor modifications, 6 piston brakes from the Porsche Caen or 4 piston from the Volkswagen Tuareg. Brake disc 330 mm. And it will not matter which pads to put)
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    26. #24
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      Dragging this back up, finally getting around to doing a straightforward change in the front brake setup. I did a brake flush yesterday, and put in Motul RBF 600. Iím getting rid of the cheap drilled and slotted Max Brakes and pads - which are already finished after maybe 15k! - and got standard issue Meyle rotors, and Akebono ceramic pads, which Iíll install later today.

      Only 15k out of pads is extreme, and Iíve never come close to that kind of short pad life before. I do drive quickly, get up to higher speeds and come down steep mountain roads at a.. spirited pace. This isnít even the sporty car, but if youíre on a road like Angeles Crest, you gotta have some fun, right?? Lol.. So given the small brake size, and the cheap quality of the brakes that were there, that might be normal. But Iíll look forward to seeing if there is an improvement in fade resistance once itís all bedded in.
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    27. #25
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      For my OE T5 setup, which included the larger front rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Adam's slotted rotors, and high temp brake fluid never left me in a situation where I thought I needed more braking power. I never tracked this setup or really pushed it for long periods of time, so your situation may be different. I was on the OE setup till ~80k, then switched to the above till ~135k before switching to R-brembo's

      I switched over to R-Brembo's F+R and 330mm rotors + SS brake lines with akebono brake pads mainly because I found them for a great deal, but those also required changing the wheels to have more backspacing. (more $)
      Last edited by broinkrist; 07-24-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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    28. #26
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      I'll be updating my brakes soon here... I wish to R brakes, but alas...

      This time around I'm going with the tried and true combo I used on my old Honda Civic back when I used to Auto-X and road race it, that combo is Centric C-Tek blanks and Stop-Tech 309 series performance pads. These for me in the past outperformed Hawk HPS pads. I'll also be flushing with fresh Pentosin Super DOT fluid and installing SS lines that I've had sitting around for a while now waiting to install. Given my 2.5T 286mm brakes, this should all be a big improvement overall. I currently run the same Max brand brakes that Myles is running, but blanks instead of slotted or drilled and with carbon metallic pads. I've had good success with this kit and the price is killer. Also don't fade for me, but I haven't driven this car over Angeles Crest as he has, though she handles PCH through Big Sure quite well and that's loaded to the gills with a cargo box and full trunk.

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    29. #27
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      Well.. my normally reliable parts shop in Glendale gave me the larger 302mm rotors by mistake, despite having a clear convo with them about the proper size. Ugh... I didnít see that they were incorrect until I pulled one out of the box, after Iíd pulled the driver side caliper and rotor off the car. Hereís to hoping they can swap out for the correct size tomorrow, and theyíre only open for half the day on Saturday..

      Meh. Happens.
      Ď07 S60 2.5T

    30. #28
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      Actually... now Iím thinking... to upgrade to the bigger rotor, donít I just need new carriers? Same caliper, just the brackets? Iíll look around here on the forum..

      ...this is always how this happens, right? I went to just change the fluid, now Iím going down the rabbit hole, lol...

      EDIT - if I were buying new ones, Iíd do a search under a same year Ď07 S60 T5, and find the proper carriers, correct?
      Last edited by mylesph1; 07-25-2020 at 10:49 AM.
      Ď07 S60 2.5T

    31. #29
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      I think you just need to match the proper rotor size for the carriers you need, not necessarily by the year. Did you receive 302 or 305mm rotors? I'm familiar with the 305mm size for T5s...

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    32. #30
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      No actually they completely misread the info - apparently the S60R is also listed as a 2.5 liter motor and he got me the 330mm rotors! Going to pick up the proper rotors by 1pm, hopefully..
      Ď07 S60 2.5T

    33. #31
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      For the 305mm rotors, all you'll need is the 'larger' caliper brackets. I would offer you mine, but I didn't save them when I purged my garage of all old rusty spare parts earlier in the spring.

      You'll see the most impact from your old setup by just going with a better quality rotor and pads, along with SS brake lines and some good fluid properly bled. The upgrade to 305mm fronts will be better, but you need to have the basics down first.

      My upgrade to R-Brembo's + R rear brake dust shields + new brembo blank rotors + SS brake lines + brake fluid + akebono ceramic pads was a hair over $800. If you're considering the upgrade - you'll also need spacers or new wheels, so factor in that cost too.
      2005 S60 T5 M66 (1 of 72). 4C (for now), Sport Kit, Snabb Short Shifter+Bushings, IPD Track Sways F+R, Bi-Xenon Retrofitted R Headlights - custom fuse box/wiring harness, IPD DP + Oval Tube Exhaust, Forge CBV, Snabb intake pipe, R Brembos F+R, FC04A 17x8+35. coming soon: KW V2, Delrin Subframe Bushings, Do88 Intercooler, Stage 2 Tune. HU-650+Bluetooth Grom+PA300+2xFocal ISS165+ACM-1.300+2x6.5" Dayton Rear Door Subwoofers.
      2005 G55k Family hauler
      2007 Formula SAE Racecar - Custom Tube Frame Chassis, Fox Shocks, Pullrod Suspension, , Wilwood Calipers, Hoosier Slicks, Magnesium 2pc wheels... (full auto-x resto)
      NA1 Supercharged NSX someday.

    34. #32
      Junior Member
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      Sep 2009
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      Los Angeles
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      So... after a lot of back and forth, due to a lack of the proper bigger bracket carriers after trying to chase a set all over town, I settled for now for Zimmerman 286mmís and the Akebono ceramics. Took 90 minutes all in.

      Max Brakes out....



      Zimmermans and Akebono Ceramics in.



      Full brake flush was accomplished a couple days ago..



      Already started bedding them in lightly, cleared the zinc coat off of the rotor surface, and will slowly breaking them in. Lines are in good shape, but if I run these and find them to be overwhelmed, Iíll think about looking for some S60R front brakes or some kind of OEM upgrade.
      Ď07 S60 2.5T

    35. #33
      Senior Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Dec 2014
      Location
      Connecticut
      Posts
      15,374
      316mm was a factory option later on and clears all 17s.
      2003 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - M56LK - 206k - K24/Greens/Do88/Quaife/SMF/P2R Clutch/DW300C/H&R/Bilstein TC/316mm & 308mm Brakes - SteveO Tuned
      1999 V70 T5 - Pewter/R Graphite & Alcantara - AW42 - 299k - Daily/Work Wagon
      1999 V70 T5 - Nautic/R Graphite & Alcantara - M56H - 177k - Rescued
      1999 V70 T5 - Emerald/Graphite - M56H - 119k - Garage Queen
      2000 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - AW42 - 243k - Moms Unicorn
      2000 S70 GLT SE- Mystic/Graphite - AW42 - 218k - Sisters

    36. #34
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
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      OP, Kansas, USA
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      873
      This week I am upgrading to Stoptech 330mm drilled and slotted rotors and Okebono Ceramic pads. I loved the ceramics I had on the Venetian. Also Doing new SS lines. Bought from FCP Euro, so they will be the last brake parts I will ever purchase...


      https://www.fcpeuro.com/Volvo-parts/...=%20127.39035L

    37. #35
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Sep 2009
      Location
      Los Angeles
      Posts
      130
      Quote Originally Posted by Fmfosnacht View Post
      This week I am upgrading to Stoptech 330mm drilled and slotted rotors and Okebono Ceramic pads. I loved the ceramics I had on the Venetian. Also Doing new SS lines. Bought from FCP Euro, so they will be the last brake parts I will ever purchase...


      https://www.fcpeuro.com/Volvo-parts/...=%20127.39035L
      Do you have an R? Or do you already have the bigger brakes and carriers to fit the 330mm rotor?

      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      316mm was a factory option later on and clears all 17s.
      Iím seeing that, but donít see how Iíd go about buying the parts to accomplish it. Are the calipers replaced, or is it just rotors and the carriers?

      Thanks for always chiming in with your experience
      Last edited by mylesph1; 07-25-2020 at 09:51 PM.
      Ď07 S60 2.5T

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