2007 C70 no start condition help
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    1. #1
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      2007 C70 no start condition help

      So I've got a love/hate relationship with my C70 hardtop. Most fun car I've owned, love driving it, but it's been one issue after another. It's to the point where my boss jokes around saying "So what's the car problem this month?"

      Anyway. Here's the brief backstory and what I've done to diagnose and repair so far.

      Car has about 138k miles on it, so things are bound to need fixing and/or replacing. Since March it's had a new head gasket, new timing belt (with pulley and tensioner), new serpentine belts, two new camshaft position sensors, new radiator (highway construction took a bite out of it), and new spark plugs. There's other things that aren't relevant to this, but that's where I'm at with replacing stuff.

      I was driving home with my daughter, sitting at a stop light. I turned onto the main road and got maybe 5 feet before the car sputtered twice and shut down. Like complete shutdown. Hit the hazards, turned the key off, tried to start but got this weird noise and it didn't sound like it wanted to fire, at all. Pushed the car off the highway and into a parking stall, got it towed home.

      I'm not a professional mechanic but I've worked on every car I've owned over the past 25+ years so I know a fair bit.

      Since getting it towed home, I changed the belts (one of them snapped and was gone, the other was starting to fray), cam sensors, and spark plugs. Wiring looks ok. Starter motor is working because it's spinning the engine. I can see the belts moving when cranking, so I know it's not locked. Electrical systems work, I can put the top up and down no problem, it just will not start. It makes a sound like the engine is just being spun by the starter but absolutely no indication that it's even trying to fire. Had a code before about the cam sensors, so I replaced those.

      I'm down to possibly fuel delivery issues. Got a code for low fuel rail pressure, so not sure if it's the pressure sensor or what. I hate just randomly swapping parts. I especially don't want to change the fuel pump unless I have to, because as far as I can tell I have to drop the tank (there's no access panel in the passenger area or trunk, from what I can tell.) It's probably *LONG* overdue for a fuel filter replacement.

      I suppose my primary questions would be:
      • Is there a fuel pump relay I can test? Getting mixed answers, some saying it's in the glovebox panel, some saying it's on a board...
      • How likely is the fuel pump itself to just bite the dust. Southern US car, only been around Florida so it's hot as hell year round
      • How likely is the fuel pressure sensor to go? I've seen people saying both "rarely" and "it's an actual issue"
      • Would a fuel filter with 138k on it be enough to cause a no-start condition due to low fuel pressure?


      Thanks!

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    3. #2
      Member jschinito's Avatar
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      bummer with all your issues... mine's a 102k and i need it to hang in there for another 10k probably.

      only thing i can say is the fuel pressure sensor is quite common to go out. and it's probably the easiest/quickest and cheapest of all that you've listed. not guaranteeing it'll fit everything but since you asked if it's a common issue...

      Quote Originally Posted by Vulsin View Post
      So I've got a love/hate relationship with my C70 hardtop. Most fun car I've owned, love driving it, but it's been one issue after another. It's to the point where my boss jokes around saying "So what's the car problem this month?"

      Anyway. Here's the brief backstory and what I've done to diagnose and repair so far.

      Car has about 138k miles on it, so things are bound to need fixing and/or replacing. Since March it's had a new head gasket, new timing belt (with pulley and tensioner), new serpentine belts, two new camshaft position sensors, new radiator (highway construction took a bite out of it), and new spark plugs. There's other things that aren't relevant to this, but that's where I'm at with replacing stuff.

      I was driving home with my daughter, sitting at a stop light. I turned onto the main road and got maybe 5 feet before the car sputtered twice and shut down. Like complete shutdown. Hit the hazards, turned the key off, tried to start but got this weird noise and it didn't sound like it wanted to fire, at all. Pushed the car off the highway and into a parking stall, got it towed home.

      I'm not a professional mechanic but I've worked on every car I've owned over the past 25+ years so I know a fair bit.

      Since getting it towed home, I changed the belts (one of them snapped and was gone, the other was starting to fray), cam sensors, and spark plugs. Wiring looks ok. Starter motor is working because it's spinning the engine. I can see the belts moving when cranking, so I know it's not locked. Electrical systems work, I can put the top up and down no problem, it just will not start. It makes a sound like the engine is just being spun by the starter but absolutely no indication that it's even trying to fire. Had a code before about the cam sensors, so I replaced those.

      I'm down to possibly fuel delivery issues. Got a code for low fuel rail pressure, so not sure if it's the pressure sensor or what. I hate just randomly swapping parts. I especially don't want to change the fuel pump unless I have to, because as far as I can tell I have to drop the tank (there's no access panel in the passenger area or trunk, from what I can tell.) It's probably *LONG* overdue for a fuel filter replacement.

      I suppose my primary questions would be:
      • Is there a fuel pump relay I can test? Getting mixed answers, some saying it's in the glovebox panel, some saying it's on a board...
      • How likely is the fuel pump itself to just bite the dust. Southern US car, only been around Florida so it's hot as hell year round
      • How likely is the fuel pressure sensor to go? I've seen people saying both "rarely" and "it's an actual issue"
      • Would a fuel filter with 138k on it be enough to cause a no-start condition due to low fuel pressure?


      Thanks!
      2008 C70 GT - Black/Black/Nordic Oak • 18x8 Black Midirs
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    4. #3
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      The way I look at it is I'll have a new car by the time I'm done replacing everything haha.

      It's a shame the previous owner didn't take care of it. Was a smoker, too, pulling up the back seats gave off that distinct odor. Headliner is a bit yellowish too, so some deep cleans are in order. I just don't think it was properly maintained and that's why I had to do all that work to it. Had to replace both CV axles, the joints were too far gone, rotors were rusted and worn, the list goes on. It's still a fun car and this is my 3rd Volvo so there's a bit of brand loyalty built up there. Now if only they'd release another hardtop in the US I'd sell off this one.

      The pressure sensor was my initial thought, apparently it's a common thing as you said. Local AutoZone has a Bosch one in stock I'll try swapping out today, gonna grab a fuel filter while I'm at it. 138k and I'm willing to put money down that it's never been replaced. With the state the car is in I'm surprised the oil seemed to be changed regularly.

      Quote Originally Posted by jschinito View Post
      bummer with all your issues... mine's a 102k and i need it to hang in there for another 10k probably.

      only thing i can say is the fuel pressure sensor is quite common to go out. and it's probably the easiest/quickest and cheapest of all that you've listed. not guaranteeing it'll fit everything but since you asked if it's a common issue...
      2007 C70 T5 Hardtop | 2011 XC90 Platinum | 2007 S60 2.5T

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    6. #4
      Member jschinito's Avatar
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      you're a lot handier than i am, but even i managed the fuel pressure sensor :-) agree with you on wishing for a replacement volvo convertible soon, but it'll probably too pricey (considering i got my 08 C70 used for around $20k)...although i'm really leaning going to electric for the next car and am really hoping the electric XC40 shows up soon and i can comparison shop it to tesla.

      but yeah, axles, rotors, belts, pcv etc are pretty much wear items, but once they're done with them, you should be good for a while.
      i had hefty bills for a few years but it's been pretty much just oil changes the last couple years which has been nice.
      Last edited by jschinito; 09-30-2019 at 07:00 PM.
      2008 C70 GT - Black/Black/Nordic Oak • 18x8 Black Midirs
      Shark Stage 1 Tune • GoVo ECU Spacer • Ford e-Focus Mount • Bilstein B8 • H&R Springs • Elevate Rear Swaybar • Volvo Strut Bar • Massive Camber Arms • Centric Rotors • Akebono Pads • Hankook Ventus Evo2 235/40/18 • Mods4cars SmartTop • Llumar/Madico Tint • E46 Bi-Xenon HID Retrofit w/ZKW-R Lens Morimoto XB35 • LED Int/Ext/Halos • Fryalip • Custom Leather Steering Wheel Wrap • CocoMats Black Sisal • IPD Skidplate • Fumoto F104N Valve

    7. #5
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      Speaking on work I've done on the S40, haven't had to deal with too many issues yet on the C70, fuel pressure sensor is indeed a problem. Haven't had one make a no start yet but if totally dead I guess it could.

      No starts I have encountered are: 1) crank sensor (on top of transmission) wires frayed or sensor not it the cradle all the way, 2) CEM harnesses not plugged in all the way (under dash passenger side) and 3) I pinched a wire to a coil with one of the cam cover bolts. I would at least visually inspect those first two things.

      I (unnecessarily) removed fuel pump once. Not that bad but tank does have to come down (at least partially). I also could not locate a fuel filter on the S40's. Don't think they have one.

      Do you have Vida? I assume so but just curious in case there were any clues with reading codes there.
      1985 240 Turbo 330K | 1995 Yellow T5-R 238K | 1996 850 Turbo 250K | 2005 S40 2.4i 178K | 2005 XC90 2.5T 240K | 2006 C70 T5 214K | 2007 S40 T5 170K

    8. #6
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      I don't have vida unfortunately. I rely on a Bluetooth OBD2 adapter and an app on my phone. I replaced the fuel pressure sensor and still no joy. Pulled a few codes today:
      * P0340 - Cam position sensor circuit malfunction
      * P0368 - Cam position sensor B circuit high
      * P2291 - Injector control pressure too low - engine cranking
      * P1770 - Clutch solenoid circuit malfunction

      I replaced both cam sensors last week and the fuel pressure sensor today. Fuel pressure (as read from the OBD2 adapter live data) was about 46 PSI with the key switched on and spiking to about 62 PSI while cranking, so I'm pretty sure the pump and such are fine. The P1770 code I've read may be related to the crankshaft position sensors. I really hate swapping out parts to diagnose a problem, but the fuel pressure sensor did need to be replaced as the connector the wiring harness plugs into was cracked.

      I'm not sure what happened, but after replacing the fuel pressure sensor, I cleared the DTC and tried to start the engine. Still didn't start, same issue. Went inside, made dinner for myself and my kids, went back outside to take other sensor readings. Plugged in the Bluetooth dongle, connected to the car and set up a few sensors to monitor and tried to start the engine. There was just a loud *click* and all power was temporarily lost. Maybe battery is too low so I'll wait until my wife gets home later to jump start it. After that loud click the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree and there were 2 new messages: "Anti-skid temporarily off" and "Passenger airbag off, service urgent" along with the lovely red triangle. Switched the key off and it said "Immobilizer, see manual". Took the key out, put it back in and that went away.

      Hoping all that noise in that last paragraph is just noise from a low battery. Going to have to check the wiring harnesses leading to the various sensors up there and see if any are frayed or coming apart. I checked them but not super close, which I'll do tonight.
      2007 C70 T5 Hardtop | 2011 XC90 Platinum | 2007 S60 2.5T

    9. #7
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      So since March you replaced the head gasket and associated parts (timing belt and drive belts)? And after that work, one of those new drive belts was already fraying and the other was gone and the car died?

      The frayed belt got sucked up into the timing cover, causing the engine to jump time. Likely bent your valves.

    10. #8
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      I had a Volvo shop (not dealer) replace the head gasket and timing, but they didn't change the drive belts. I brought it to them because of the head gasket, I didn't have the time to work on it myself. Given the sequence of events, that sounds plausible. It was a sudden engine shutdown. I started looking at all the different systems but didn't think about looking at that. There's not the classic sounds of bent valves, though. No clicking or knocking or anything. I can do a leak down test, a lot easier than yanking the head to check.

      Gonna closely examine the wiring and if that checks out I'll do a leak down test.

      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      So since March you replaced the head gasket and associated parts (timing belt and drive belts)? And after that work, one of those new drive belts was already fraying and the other was gone and the car died?

      The frayed belt got sucked up into the timing cover, causing the engine to jump time. Likely bent your valves.
      2007 C70 T5 Hardtop | 2011 XC90 Platinum | 2007 S60 2.5T

    11. #9
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      The classic sound of bent valves is no compression. If it sounded like it was spinning quicker than normal when it was cranking before the battery died, that's what you have. I've seen it on multiple occasions. The cams being out of time is why you have cam position sensor codes, the sensors didn't both fail at once.

      If you happen to have an inspection camera, take a peak in the cylinders. If all the valves are open, they're bent and the head has to come back off.
      Last edited by Tech; 10-02-2019 at 11:31 PM.

    12. #10
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      That makes more sense now. I don't have an inspection camera, would be nice though.
      2007 C70 T5 Hardtop | 2011 XC90 Platinum | 2007 S60 2.5T

    13. #11
      Member HunterBD's Avatar
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      How old is your battery and what size do you have installed? Our Volvo’s are so dependent on current to run and everything talks to each other.
      Buy a new battery if it is old. The largest you can put in. Walmart sells one for a good price. Yes Walmart. I have one and it’s easy to return and cranking power is great.

      Spend the day with your daughter and unhook your battery. Remove every fuse, relay and cables. Clean each one with a soft mettle tooth brush (HD or Lowe’s) and put it back in before you do the next one . Remove positive and negative cables and clean those too. Your car is 12 years old.

      I do this with all my Volvo’s. It doesn’t cost you anything except time. My cars run flawlessly and when something happens I can diagnose so much easier. I also have VIDA. Buy it. People sell them in classified here.


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      05 VR GT Titanium Grey/Nordakp, sunroof, Winter Package, Premium sound with Volvo Sub. VST rear brace, Ultra Racing front strut brace.

    14. #12
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      Ended up buying a camera and sent it down into the cylinders. Confirmed there are bent valves, so it looks like I'll be pulling the head to replace those and examine the pistons for damage. All of the valves look to be present, none look like they broke off.

      I'm definitely going to invest in VIDA.
      2007 C70 T5 Hardtop | 2011 XC90 Platinum | 2007 S60 2.5T

    15. #13
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      Finally got the time and pulled the head. Confirmed that all 10 exhaust valves are bent. Aside from the small indentations on the pistons where the valves made contact, there's no other damage. Cylinders are fine, pistons have carbon buildup and those small dents but are otherwise fine, and the head is in perfect shape. Took the opportunity when I had the engine torn down to get down in there and do some deep cleaning. Got some new plastic conduit to replace the brittle 12-year-old conduit, and will be giving the engine bay a thorough cleaning.

      The mechanic that replaced the head gasket and did the timing back in March said that the car had been in before for routine maintenance and they found it had some compression issues, but the owner didn't want to pay to have them diagnose it. Well, there's 3 intake valves that have a gap just enough to let light through, which could explain that. Engine ran fine but apparently cylinders 1 and 4 didn't have compression up to spec.

      So now I've ordered all 20 valves, may as well replace them all while I'm in there since sets of 10 are cheaper than individual valves. New gasket and o-ring set, new head bolts, and some anaerobic liquid gasket on the way. Also an excuse to order new tools so a valve spring compressor is coming. Thanks Tech, I'd still possibly be chasing my tail, the engine jumping time didn't occur to me. Now I know exactly what I'm dealing with and have the parts on order to fix it. If you're ever in the Orlando, FL area I owe you a beer or two.
      2007 C70 T5 Hardtop | 2011 XC90 Platinum | 2007 S60 2.5T

    16. #14
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      No problem, glad to help.

      Make sure there are no sharp edges on the pistons where the valves hit. Smooth them out with a 3m wiz wheel or similar. Then make sure to clean out the coolant passages. You can open the drain on the pipe at the back and pour water in them to flush them out.

    17. #15
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      Valves and stem seals replaced, everything cleaned, new gaskets all around, and all bolts torqued to spec. Timing has been set (and checked about 50 times because I'm a touch paranoid about that). Compression seems good, no leaks. Still won't start. Went over every wire that connects the sensors and coils on top of the engine, as well as the crank position sensor. I've read that since the crank sensor is a hall effect sensor, there could be interference from the starter during cranking. Made sure the wiring was routed away from the starter (as best I could) and even went as far as to somewhat shield it with some aluminum foil as some have said that worked. No joy.

      I started going down this road because when cranking I might get it to fire once and the tach will jump. It will never fully start, I might get one (two if I'm lucky) shudders like it's trying but it never does start. The tach will bounce ever so slightly when cranking, and sometimes when I turn the key off it will jump all the way through redline and then back to 0. A lot of posts I've seen indicate either a bad ground, interference from the starter, a bad starter, or a bad crank sensor. All the grounds that I can see are on tightly. There were some wires to the coils and cam reset valves had the shielding broken so I patched those with electrical tape and new plastic conduit (going to look into replacing the entire wiring harness.) I removed the grounds on the valve cover, cleaned them, then re-tightened them.

      I don't particularly enjoy the part swapping game as a method of troubleshooting so I'm hesitant to just order a new crank sensor and/or starter. I have my XC90 hooked up and running as a jumper to get it started, but I'm thinking the battery might need to just be replaced. Not sure when it was last done. This poor baby had been barely maintained by the previous owner. Shame because it's such a gorgeous machine and so fun to drive
      2007 C70 T5 Hardtop | 2011 XC90 Platinum | 2007 S60 2.5T

    18. #16
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      Was the valve clearance properly set?

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