My 40k service and learnings about no free software
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    1. #1
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      My 40k service and learnings about no free software

      For reference if it helps anyone.... pricing is actual charge amount (parts and labor)

      Called in for 40k maintenance light and while driving it (wife's car) felt rubbing on the brakes.
      Oil change (Castrol Synthetic) $115
      Rear inboard pads metal to metal, about to slip the backing plate which would damage caliper $683 (2 disks and pad kit)
      Brake flush $100
      Engine Air Filter $108
      Cabin Air Filter $119
      Tire Balance and Rotate $59

      When I dropped my car off I asked the Service Advisor if they would update the software, and he said yes if there is anything available.
      When I went to pickup the car I asked if they had any software updates and same guy told me yes but it is for a charge. I said they never charged me in the past and I was always given updates (car is still under warranty).

      Advisor then told me unless there is an issue they don't do updates, and I said the updates used to always give me more features. I told him the loaner's software seemed more responsive to touch vs mine and then he alluded to fact that we could use that info to get the update?? But he said that he also doesn't want to break something by updating?? Seemed kinda shady so I logged into the forum.

      I'm going to call and still try to get the software updated under warranty claim but does anyone have any reason why I shouldn't get it? Nothing is broke it's just this would likely be my last visit while under warranty so I figure I should get the latest now?

      Thanks!

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    3. #2
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      There are a few threads about this change. Volvo does not reimburse dealers for labor for the updates, so it is up to them whether or not to do them for free.

      Tell them your center screen is laggy and they can update it under warranty.

    4. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      There are a few threads about this change. Volvo does not reimburse dealers for labor for the updates, so it is up to them whether or not to do them for free.

      Tell them your center screen is laggy and they can update it under warranty.
      Ok thanks - I'll try that. Local dealers website even still says free software updates but I hear ya; if Volvo not paying for the time there is no incentive for dealer

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    6. #4
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      Just tell him u have a problem with the bt connecting to your phone. Then he will do it as long as far is under warranty.
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    7. #5
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      $1000 for oil, filters and a "brake job"

      At my house:
      - Oil change $30
      - Air filter $15
      - Cabin filter $15
      - "Brake Job" $100 (assume this is how much volvo pads are)
      - Rotate tires $0
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    8. #6
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      Why is it that every time someone posts prices for work they paid to have done, someone feels obligated to post how much it would cost to do it themselves? Not everyone is a DIYer. Labor has a price. And comparing aftermarket parts prices to dealer prices is always going to be cheaper, so it isn't an apples to apples comparison. It has nothing to do with the question regarding the software update.

      I help run a Facebook group for people in my neighborhood. I often see people post looking for recommendations on a plumber to replace a water heater or fix a faucet, or an electrician to replace an outlet. People give recommendations and sometimes include what they were charged. I don't tell them that I replaced my own water heater for way less or that an outlet is a couple bucks. Not everyone can or wants to do things themselves. Nothing wrong with that.

      On a side note, $30 for an oil change seems like an exaggeration. I can't find the filter for under $10, brake pads can be found for $85 but he needed rotors, and your free rotation doesn't include balancing. You also left out the brake fluid flush. And I don't know where you can find Volvo air and pollen filters for $15 each.

      Also, the advice about telling them your Bluetooth isn't connecting to your phone to get the software update might not work. There is no bulletin fot such a problem. There is a bulletin for the leggy center screen, which means we can update it and claim it under warranty.
      Last edited by Tech; 10-11-2019 at 09:32 AM.

    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Why is it that every time someone posts prices for work they paid to have done, someone feels obligated to post how much it would cost to do it themselves? Not everyone is a DIYer. Labor has a price. And comparing aftermarket parts prices to dealer prices is always going to be cheaper, so it isn't an apples to apples comparison. It has nothing to do with the question regarding the software update.

      I help run a Facebook group for people in my neighborhood. I often see people post looking for recommendations on a plumber to replace a water heater or fix a faucet, or an electrician to replace an outlet. People give recommendations and sometimes include what they were charged. I don't tell them that I replaced my own water heater for way less or that an outlet is a couple bucks. Not everyone can or wants to do things themselves. Nothing wrong with that.

      On a side note, $30 for an oil change seems like an exaggeration. I can't find the filter for under $10, brake pads can be found for $85 but he needed rotors, and your free rotation doesn't include balancing. You also left out the brake fluid flush. And I don't know where you can find Volvo air and pollen filters for $15 each.

      Also, the advice about telling them your Bluetooth isn't connecting to your phone to get the software update might not work. There is no bulletin fot such a problem. There is a bulletin for the leggy center screen, which means we can update it and claim it under warranty.
      This. Agreed, my time has a value - I'd rather go do my job and pay someone else to do this kind of work.

    10. #8
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      I agree on this, but there's another option besides DIY. I took my wife's X5 in to the dealer for an oil and cabin filter change, plus tire rotation, and the service adviser said it was going to be $900. I said, "You're kidding?" drove away and called Jiffy Lube, which did everything but the cabin filter (didn't have it in stock) for $120.

      For some services you need to go to the dealer, but for others there are options besides doing it yourself.
      Last edited by 35073507; 10-11-2019 at 01:22 PM.
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    11. #9
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      Yeah, I know. And if the thread was about that, then great.

      My rant is for when people feel the obligation to chime in with what it would cost to use aftermarket parts and do it yourself totally unsolicited.

      I don't work for BMW, but if they were really charging $900 for an oil change, pollen filter and rotation, then that's a scam. But there is also a possibility there was more included. Miscommunication and misunderstanding are often problems that lead people to compare apples to oranges as well.
      Last edited by Tech; 10-11-2019 at 02:45 PM.

    12. #10
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      I have saved money many times by having my "__,____ mile service" done elsewhere (not the dealer). I often will do oil changes and other basics there, esp when under warranty, but I don't let them charge me hundreds of dollars to inspect things, and I suspect many dealers don't actually inspect squat. I bought a CPO toyota and the tranny fluid was toast despite the inspection form saying it was a-ok. I know that is one example only but I suspect they over charge and cut corners on 'inspections'.

      Best bet is a local honest shop unless under warranty

      No way I would pay the dealer for volvo brakes unless they were doing for free under warranty (b/c they appear not to last)
      Last edited by specepic; 10-11-2019 at 05:41 PM.
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    13. #11
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      Actually, the best bet is an excellent Volvo service center who has well-trained techs and service consultants with whom a Volvo owner/lessor has developed and maintained a respectful rapport and a professional relationship.

      If the estimated cost is out-of-bounds, there are likely options. I know the service director, service manager and service consultants at my dealer quite well. My only wish is that dealer's executive management would compensate their service staff better - because they could - without having much impact on costs to the consumer. DIY is great if you are knowledgable, equipped and interested. I am no longer. Been there, done that.
      Last edited by Gary-16-Xc90; 10-11-2019 at 08:33 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gary-16-Xc90 View Post
      Actually, the best bet is an excellent Volvo service center who has well-trained techs and service consultants with whom a Volvo owner/lessor has developed and maintained a respectful rapport and a professional relationship.

      If the estimated cost is out-of-bounds, there are likely options. I know the service director, service manager and service consultants at my dealer quite well. My only wish is that dealer's executive management would compensate their service staff better - because they could - without having much impact on costs to the consumer. DIY is great if you are knowledgable, equipped and interested. I am no longer. Been there, done that.
      For routine scheduled maintenance you just need a reliable guy even if he is still not highly professional level.

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      Volvo can be a finnicky vehicle to service with all the computerization. I would not trust a quick lube tech getting $10/hr. to service my Volvo. And aftermarket filters can be cheaply made. Think Fram and their cardboard and glue oil filters. Dealer techs rarely screw up because they don't want the vehicle to come back. And they get the best training available. That's my opinion. I know my saleswoman had to go thru hoops to get fully certified just to deliver my car. I have dealt with her for over 15 years now.

    16. #14
      Junior Member RootDKJ's Avatar
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      Good luck getting the $10/hour lube tech to remember to put the oil pan cover back on before you drive away.
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    17. #15
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      Bought a 7 service VIP agreement for $1900. At $270 each, I’m glad I won’t be stressing about this. I hate overpaying and the thought of bringing my XC90 to a jiffy lube would scare me. I’ve heard too many horror stories about them.


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    18. #16
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      I agree that labor has to be paid for, nobody works for free.
      But dealers (in my region) ask prices for oil that's as high as if you buy it in small
      canisters while they have big containers of it. and they also charge for labor.
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    19. #17
      Quote Originally Posted by RootDKJ View Post
      Good luck getting the $10/hour lube tech to remember to put the oil pan cover back on before you drive away.
      Reminds me of someone on a P-car forum realizing they made a mistake taking their Boxster to Jiffy Lube when the tech was confused when he couldn’t find the oil plug. He started looking under the front of the car, and then in the back “there were so many choices”. 🤦🏻*♂️
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    20. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gary-16-Xc90 View Post
      Actually, the best bet is an excellent Volvo service center who has well-trained techs and service consultants with whom a Volvo owner/lessor has developed and maintained a respectful rapport and a professional relationship.
      +a lot

      For many people (myself included), this is the way to go. For the rest, there are alternatives.

      Long ago, I used to do my own basic maintenance but at some point, I decided that I prefer to spend my time on other things. Since then, my cars have been serviced by trained professionals and I'm happy to pay for their time. They know how much I appreciate their work because I tell them so. The result is that I rarely (if ever) have problems with them.
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    21. #19
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      i used to go to dealership in brooklyn ny, this one is closed and the only one left is in manhattan, where they offered free car pick up and drop off. now i know why - oil change there is 200+, vs around 80 or so in PA or used to be in brooklyn...40k was close to 2K. So i did that myself, and will probably pay for oil change next time, very messy..but filters anyone can do. BTW, engine filter, after 30K dealer service, was the cheapest one possible, sold by walmart, and far from original. cabin filter - im pretty sure it was not changed with 20K. Oil - they did that for 20K, for 30 - engine cover and oil filler hole were really clean, i hope they were just really carefull and did not spill one drop of oil when refilling, but most likely not done either

    22. #20
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      Also of note, for 2019 Volvo improved the hardware backing the system... so if your loaner car was a 2019 or 2020 and yours is an earlier SPA then no amount of software updates are going to fix that. The sales team has a solution for you there!

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
      i used to go to dealership in brooklyn ny, this one is closed and the only one left is in manhattan, where they offered free car pick up and drop off. now i know why - oil change there is 200+, vs around 80 or so in PA or used to be in brooklyn...40k was close to 2K. So i did that myself, and will probably pay for oil change next time, very messy..but filters anyone can do. BTW, engine filter, after 30K dealer service, was the cheapest one possible, sold by walmart, and far from original. cabin filter - im pretty sure it was not changed with 20K. Oil - they did that for 20K, for 30 - engine cover and oil filler hole were really clean, i hope they were just really carefull and did not spill one drop of oil when refilling, but most likely not done either
      The oil change was "most likely" not done because the cover was clean? Come on.

    24. #22
      Junior Member Volvolic's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
      40k was close to 2K...
      Am I understanding it correctly, that you said your 40k mile service cost you close to $2000?
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    25. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Volvolic View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
      40k was close to 2K...
      Am I understanding it correctly, that you said your 40k mile service cost you close to $2000?
      Not according to their website. Just under $900.

    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      Also of note, for 2019 Volvo improved the hardware backing the system... so if your loaner car was a 2019 or 2020 and yours is an earlier SPA then no amount of software updates are going to fix that. The sales team has a solution for you there!
      It's just the processor for sensus, PA system still uses the same hardware and has same performance.

    27. #25
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      you need to raise a complaint directly to VCNA. Until enough people do this nothing is going to change. The entire situation is deplorable.
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    28. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Volvolic View Post
      Am I understanding it correctly, that you said your 40k mile service cost you close to $2000?
      volvocarsmanhattan.com check it out..oil replace - $200. wheel alignment 200, 40K service - about $900, plus they said i need brakes (which where another 700 or so?) and tire balance and wiper blades (90)
      same service from scranton volvo - 40K - 425, oil - does not say, i remember 78..wheel alignment - 90. tire balance about 50, vs manhattan about double that.
      So obviously i did not do it there and did what is needed myself, will do the front brakes and rotors next

      As to clean cover and oil change - there is NO WAY you can fill the engine with fresh oil without leaving a single mark on the engine cover, that was a bit dusty. there will be some evidence from at least taking the oil filler cap out. but as i said, most likely...i would never know.

    29. #27
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      I briefly dealt with volvo of Manhattan as they had a T8 R design that I was interested in. Lets just say I moved on to other dealerships. But they have to pay for their high rent area.
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    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
      volvocarsmanhattan.com check it out..oil replace - $200. wheel alignment 200, 40K service - about $900, plus they said i need brakes (which where another 700 or so?) and tire balance and wiper blades (90)
      same service from scranton volvo - 40K - 425, oil - does not say, i remember 78..wheel alignment - 90. tire balance about 50, vs manhattan about double that.
      So obviously i did not do it there and did what is needed myself, will do the front brakes and rotors next

      As to clean cover and oil change - there is NO WAY you can fill the engine with fresh oil without leaving a single mark on the engine cover, that was a bit dusty. there will be some evidence from at least taking the oil filler cap out. but as i said, most likely...i would never know.
      They also have a $100 coupon if you spend over a grand... and $75 if it's just under (aka if you JUST did the 40k service). I cant imagine the costs of running a shop in Manhattan. For most areas that price seems high, but everything costs more to do in a city like that.

      And just because you're sloppy doesn't mean everyone is. They aren't pouring the oil out of jugs. It would be pretty easy to fill without disturbing the dust. Those who go in expecting to be victims always find a way to perceive victimhood.

    31. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Why is it that every time someone posts prices for work they paid to have done, someone feels obligated to post how much it would cost to do it themselves? Not everyone is a DIYer. Labor has a price. And comparing aftermarket parts prices to dealer prices is always going to be cheaper, so it isn't an apples to apples comparison. It has nothing to do with the question regarding the software update.

      I help run a Facebook group for people in my neighborhood. I often see people post looking for recommendations on a plumber to replace a water heater or fix a faucet, or an electrician to replace an outlet. People give recommendations and sometimes include what they were charged. I don't tell them that I replaced my own water heater for way less or that an outlet is a couple bucks. Not everyone can or wants to do things themselves. Nothing wrong with that.

      On a side note, $30 for an oil change seems like an exaggeration. I can't find the filter for under $10, brake pads can be found for $85 but he needed rotors, and your free rotation doesn't include balancing. You also left out the brake fluid flush. And I don't know where you can find Volvo air and pollen filters for $15 each.

      Also, the advice about telling them your Bluetooth isn't connecting to your phone to get the software update might not work. There is no bulletin fot such a problem. There is a bulletin for the leggy center screen, which means we can update it and claim it under warranty.

      Why does someone always bring up DIY alternative when maintenance is discussed? Fair question, but let me offer my perspective:
      1. People need to be aware of potential savings of going DIY vs. dealer's labor charge and parts markup.
      2. After learning the above, most people will still say screw it, I am not getting under the car to drain oil or mess with bleeding brakes. But hey, air filter change takes 5-10 minutes, there is a youtube how-to and will save me $80-100, so let me do that part myself.
      3. My professional labor rate is $985/hour, yet I find huge satisfaction from doing what I can on my cars myself. I also know that things were done right, that oil plug wasn't over-tightened, the drain was open for sufficient amount of time to let the old oil completely drip, etc. Hell, I had BMW dealer install cabin filter the wrong way!
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    32. #30
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      Thanks for sharing the costs. I took mine for 40k service at just 40,029 miles. Basically out of warranty.

      The total cost was $1,440 USD + tax
      Breakdown:
      $279 software upgrade total
      $896 40k service
      $227 alignment
      Plus tax

      Also, they told me It needed rear brakes for $1,256 USD . . . Plus tax. I said no so I ordered EBC front and rear “red stuff” with 4 discs. Only $850 usd with tax

      $350 for installation in a local workshop.

      This is in NYC

    33. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by JediMaster View Post
      Thanks for sharing the costs. I took mine for 40k service at just 40,029 miles. Basically out of warranty.

      The total cost was $1,440 USD + tax
      Breakdown:
      $279 software upgrade total
      $896 40k service
      $227 alignment
      Plus tax

      Also, they told me It needed rear brakes for $1,256 USD . . . Plus tax. I said no so I ordered EBC front and rear “red stuff” with 4 discs. Only $850 usd with tax

      $350 for installation in a local workshop.

      This is in NYC
      Wow! Such expensive costs make my eyes water.
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    34. #32
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      My dealership here charges a rate of $145.00
      Took it in to get 2 keys made and FOB's programmed to it. Purchased brand new sealed Volvo fobs with key blanks online for 99.00
      2 keys cut and programming, $245.00. at the same time, they updated all software in the vehicle. For an additional $39.95, they installed the user configurable DIM software so I can make changes to the parameters in the DIM myself with my VIDA/DICE. Fuel filter was pretty crappy and I was going to buy one and do it myself, but never got around to it. I've worked on all my cars for 40+ years, and just didn't want to take my time. They replaced that for ~$100.00 (don't have my invoice with me). I had replaced my heater core a few days prior and broke the hinge on the left damper actuator (middle of the actuator arm that is outside the heater box). Part was $31.00, 1 hour labor.
      They also noticed an oil leak I had. I had replaced the valve cover gaskets myself a few weeks earlier, but the leak was coming from lower down. I had bought a used Oil cooler and gasket, and was planning on changing that. decided to let them do it when they called. They had me bring my cooler and seal in, and replaced it. Let it idle for an hour, raised it back up, not a drop. shut it off and within a couple minutes, the pan and front of the engine was wet with oil. found it leaks between the upper oil pan and block after the engine is off... told me it would be about 20 hours labor to reseal the motor and that would include the timing cover gasket as well. Service advisor called the technician up, and he told me that due to the cost of labor to reseal, that I would be better off in the long run to live with the leak, and if I keep the oil in the middle of the crosshatch instead of at the very top, the leak will be minimal. They didn't charge me to install my oil cooler since that wasn't the leak, and did a "2.0 upgrade" to the ECM/TCM software without charge.
      This is a 2005 XC90 v8 AWD.

    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Volvolic View Post
      Am I understanding it correctly, that you said your 40k mile service cost you close to $2000?
      volvocarsmanhattan.com check it out..oil replace - $200. wheel alignment 200, 40K service - about $900, plus they said i need brakes (which where another 700 or so?) and tire balance and wiper blades (90)
      same service from scranton volvo - 40K - 425, oil - does not say, i remember 78..wheel alignment - 90. tire balance about 50, vs manhattan about double that.
      So obviously i did not do it there and did what is needed myself, will do the front brakes and rotors next

      As to clean cover and oil change - there is NO WAY you can fill the engine with fresh oil without leaving a single mark on the engine cover, that was a bit dusty. there will be some evidence from at least taking the oil filler cap out. but as i said, most likely...i would never know.

      Okay so the 40k was not $2000.

      And yes, I can fill your oil without getting oil all over. It comes out of a gun. Very easy.

      Quote Originally Posted by Vetallist View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Why is it that every time someone posts prices for work they paid to have done, someone feels obligated to post how much it would cost to do it themselves? Not everyone is a DIYer. Labor has a price. And comparing aftermarket parts prices to dealer prices is always going to be cheaper, so it isn't an apples to apples comparison. It has nothing to do with the question regarding the software update.

      I help run a Facebook group for people in my neighborhood. I often see people post looking for recommendations on a plumber to replace a water heater or fix a faucet, or an electrician to replace an outlet. People give recommendations and sometimes include what they were charged. I don't tell them that I replaced my own water heater for way less or that an outlet is a couple bucks. Not everyone can or wants to do things themselves. Nothing wrong with that.

      On a side note, $30 for an oil change seems like an exaggeration. I can't find the filter for under $10, brake pads can be found for $85 but he needed rotors, and your free rotation doesn't include balancing. You also left out the brake fluid flush. And I don't know where you can find Volvo air and pollen filters for $15 each.

      Also, the advice about telling them your Bluetooth isn't connecting to your phone to get the software update might not work. There is no bulletin fot such a problem. There is a bulletin for the leggy center screen, which means we can update it and claim it under warranty.

      Why does someone always bring up DIY alternative when maintenance is discussed? Fair question, but let me offer my perspective:
      1. People need to be aware of potential savings of going DIY vs. dealer's labor charge and parts markup.
      2. After learning the above, most people will still say screw it, I am not getting under the car to drain oil or mess with bleeding brakes. But hey, air filter change takes 5-10 minutes, there is a youtube how-to and will save me $80-100, so let me do that part myself.
      3. My professional labor rate is $985/hour, yet I find huge satisfaction from doing what I can on my cars myself. I also know that things were done right, that oil plug wasn't over-tightened, the drain was open for sufficient amount of time to let the old oil completely drip, etc. Hell, I had BMW dealer install cabin filter the wrong way!
      I understand that if someone asks about it. But in this thread, it was a question about software.

    36. #34
      Member chillg8r's Avatar
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      I wonder if the NY area dealers accept the VIP maintenance plan for the standard 10,000 maintenance projects? If so it would be the way to go.
      ”Adventure may hurt you but monotony will kill you.”

    37. #35
      Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by JediMaster View Post
      Thanks for sharing the costs. I took mine for 40k service at just 40,029 miles. Basically out of warranty.

      The total cost was $1,440 USD + tax
      Breakdown:
      $279 software upgrade total
      $896 40k service
      $227 alignment
      Plus tax

      Also, they told me It needed rear brakes for $1,256 USD . . . Plus tax. I said no so I ordered EBC front and rear “red stuff” with 4 discs. Only $850 usd with tax

      $350 for installation in a local workshop.

      This is in NYC
      Which local workshop for the brake job, if you don't mind..

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