Help needed - I don't think my car will ever run properly again. Is it a lemon? Trade Assist a possibility?
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    1. #1
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      Help needed - I don't think my car will ever run properly again. Is it a lemon? Trade Assist a possibility?

      I have a 2016 Volvo XC90. All work has been done at dealerships. I am not an aggressive driver, I primarily just drive around town taking my kids and their friends to school and their various activities.

      At 18,000 miles the Reduced Engine Performance light came on while I was on the freeway, forcing the car to decelerate to speeds that are not safe. I took the car in and the replaced the spark plugs and rotors.

      26,000 miles: the Stop Safely light and the low oil light came on. They replaced the breather box, auxiliary and support batteries, steering wheel module, steering column switch assembly, bleeder hose, and oil trap. I also needed to purchase 2 new front tires and I later learned they sealed the filler cap for an oil consumption test.

      31,000 miles: check engine light and low oil light. They said excessive oil consumption due to loss of elasticity in piston rings.

      They replaced breather box again (previous one lasted 6months and less than 5,000 miles), front crank seal, pistons, big end rod bearings, supercharger. After putting vehicle back together, tech found oil leak causing a large volume of oil to leak into the timing cover. They replaced timing belt kit, VVT plugs, camshaft seals, another side bleeder hose.

      My car was at the dealership for almost 3 months. The day I picked my car up the steering wheel started shaking when braking at highway speeds and a burning smell when the car was stopped.

      33,000 miles: Around 6 weeks and 2,000 miles later, the car is making a clunking sound when turning. I bring it back to the dealership.

      Upper engine torque mount was torn. They replaced right engine mount, torque mount, upper and lower control arms (they were shifting due to ball joints and brushings being worn). Front and rear brake pads and discs replaced, rotors warped again (previous rotors lasted just 15,000miles), another new front tire.

      In the service report it stated that bolts to the upper radiator support were incorrect, bolts to oil cooler were incorrect, and bolts were missing from the upper engine harness.
      Car at the dealer almost 3 weeks.

      I get the car back, and 4 days later the engine light comes on. I bring it back to the dealership. My car seems to be going through gas more quickly and doesn’t have great acceleration anymore. I also noticed the oil level was halfway. Odd considering I presume they changed and filled the oil in July, less than 2,000 miles ago.

      I am informed that it is probably the seal around the fuel cap, a known issue with XC90s. Turns out it was a seal in the supercharger leaking emissions. Replace the supercharger again (previous one lasted approximately 9 weeks and less than 2,000 miles). They replaced the supercharger, test drove the car and got the same error code again. I am told the car must be leaking emissions from a different area. Two days later I am told it must have been a false code because they aren’t getting any more codes for the vehicle.

      So far, my car has been at the dealership 11 days.

      Tomorrow they may tell me I can pick up my car. I have zero confidence that this car will ever run properly again, and 100% confidence that the car will be back at the dealership in a few weeks.

      Question 1: When they put my engine back together, is it possible that bolts missing from the upper engine harness and incorrect bolts for the upper radiator support and oil cooler caused further damage to my car?

      Question 2: Do you think that my car is a lemon now?

      Question 3: Will Volvo or the dealership work with me to get me into a new Volvo?

      Question 4: If they do help me with a trade assist, how much “help” do they typically give? How does a trade assist work?

      I would love some guidance! My warranty ends in 2 months....

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    3. #2
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      From my limited knowledge on cars in general,

      Question 1: it looks to me the bolts for engine harness and radiator support and oil cooler is not big deal, as long as the parts are not loose and colliding with parts nearby. On the other hand, whether they put the engine back 100% correct could be a concern as every seals, bolts have to be put back correctly and it is not easy job.

      Question 2: Check your state lemon law. Usually there is a time limit (within the first year), number of occurrences, and/or days in shop to be qualified.

      Question 3 and 4: You have to push them. It won't happen automatically.

      For warranty, you can push Volvo to compensate you with free extended warranty. Worst case, you can buy extended warranty yourself in case of future problems.

      I think the oil consumption problem is the most worrisome one. Looks like it is not fixed till now. I'd push Volvo to replace the engine.
      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 10-21-2019 at 06:19 PM.
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 234+k miles

    4. #3
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      if the car had that many issues i would get rid of it or request for a buyback....
      Sid
      2019 Volvo XC90 T6 OSD
      2007 Porsche 911 Turbo
      2004 Dodge Viper SRT-10
      2012 Ducati Diavel

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    6. #4
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      Thanks! Once my car is fixed again, I will ask about a free extended warranty, I definitely can't keep the car if it isn't under warranty. But the annoyance of taking my car in so frequently makes me lean towards wanting a buyback or trade assist.

      Does Volve even do buybacks for a car that is almost 4 years old?

    7. #5
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      At a bare minimum, I'd start asking your dealership some hard questions. It sounds like they may have been "fixing" symptoms while missing actual root causes, leading to more symptoms.

      You've had failures all over the map in many different types of components according to your list. I'm not clear how some of those replacements were related to the problems you described. Not seeing the actual car/doing diagnostics I'm not going to say they are definitively doing a bad job, but you should definitely be asking the same question you asked us - will this thing ever be fixed? What happens if not?

      If it were all related to one major component like "engine" then I could see the lemon story making sense, but why do you have uneven tire wear? Steering part replacements for oil lights? Rotors due to a reduced performance warning? Unless the whole factory was drunk to include the robots and all the suppliers on that day, something else is going on. Broken engine mounts? Something isn't running right to be tearing up everything like this. Your dealership should have some answers for you at this point, and if they don't, you should bring your service history to another dealership and ask them their thoughts.
      Last edited by ormandj; 10-21-2019 at 08:51 PM.
      2019 Volvo XC90 T8 Inscription (Ice White/Blond interior): Advanced package, heated rear seats/steering wheel, 21" 8-spoke wheels, Bowers and Wilkins, and air suspension.

    8. #6
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      Have you discussed your concerns with Volvo USA? or the equivalent if your outside the US. The dealer is required to have any warranty repairs authorized and you don't seem to be getting anywhere.

    9. #7
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      Excellent points! I clearly don't know much about cars - message lights go on or something isn't working right and I bring it in. They always seem to be replacing more parts than one would think for whichever issue the car is brought in for, but since I don't know about cars, I just accept it.

      This time it must not be the just supercharger and a false code, because I haven't heard a word from them in 5 days. I am going to call and ask if my car will ever be fixed and if not, what are the next steps.

      I am also going to contact Volvo USA. The amount of time my car has been at the dealer in the past 5 months is beyond ridiculous and I have had enough.

      Thank you!

    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by MKS View Post
      Excellent points! I clearly don't know much about cars - message lights go on or something isn't working right and I bring it in. They always seem to be replacing more parts than one would think for whichever issue the car is brought in for, but since I don't know about cars, I just accept it.

      This time it must not be the just supercharger and a false code, because I haven't heard a word from them in 5 days. I am going to call and ask if my car will ever be fixed and if not, what are the next steps.

      I am also going to contact Volvo USA. The amount of time my car has been at the dealer in the past 5 months is beyond ridiculous and I have had enough.

      Thank you!
      Best of luck and let us know how things go! We'll be rooting for you!
      2019 Volvo XC90 T8 Inscription (Ice White/Blond interior): Advanced package, heated rear seats/steering wheel, 21" 8-spoke wheels, Bowers and Wilkins, and air suspension.

    11. #9
      Hi, MKS. Your 2016 seems to have almost as much warranty work done to it as my 2016. Hell yours may have more! After 3 attempts at trying to get some sort of assistance here is what happened:

      On my own initiative, I collected all the service records and opened a case with VC USA at 19k on the odo.. They did not request any documents from me and barely gave me the time on the phone to go over my concerns with the vehicle. A week later my case was closed without explanation. I inquired about their reasoning and they simply said that the "review department" said my vehicle does not qualify and there is nothing I can do. Following yet more issues (and weeks of car in shop) I once again gathered documentation and once more opened a ticket at 31k on the odo. Guess what? Same result! Finally, fast-forward to 49k on the odo, and more issues (we had the 50k maintenance and warranty package due to Diesel Gate deal). I once again went through my routine of gathering documentation and opening a ticket, but this time I reached out to the new car sales manager and brought up the issue to him and that we would like to trade our lemon IF VC USA would offer assistance. The sales manager said sure I'll look into it, but it seemed doubtful to me from the sound of it. About 2 weeks go by and once again I get the assistance claim denied and closed at which point I immediately called the sales manager in question and kindly requested if he could possibly reach out to my VC USA rep I have been working with. He agreed. Almost within the hour I get a second email from VC USA notifying me that my claim was denied in error and that I should stand by for further details. After about a week or so, I get a call from my now familiar and friendly sales manager, and finally I hear what I wanted to hear; VC USA has approved your trade assistance claim. He said typically they offer around $2k-$4k off a brand new model, depending on the trim. Ultimately we ended up with $5k off a brand new vehicle, but had to trade our old one in, obviously. During my the final battle with VC USA, I reached out to a lemon attorney and after reviewing my service records the vehicle qualified for the Magnus-Moss Warranty Act breach at a value of $5k to $10k in free and clear cash all fees included. We decided to go through with the trade BUT had to go through hell and back to get what we got, to be made whole (sort of). In any event, your car's service history seems slightly more significant than mine so I am willing to bet my 2YO that you too qualify for either of the above options. This may not need to be said but remember, NEVER mention anything about a lawyer when dealing with Volvo unless you want them to cut all communication with you and turn over to their legal dept.

    12. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Volvo_Tech_NWI View Post
      Hi, MKS. Your 2016 seems to have almost as much warranty work done to it as my 2016. Hell yours may have more! After 3 attempts at trying to get some sort of assistance here is what happened:

      On my own initiative, I collected all the service records and opened a case with VC USA at 19k on the odo.. They did not request any documents from me and barely gave me the time on the phone to go over my concerns with the vehicle. A week later my case was closed without explanation. I inquired about their reasoning and they simply said that the "review department" said my vehicle does not qualify and there is nothing I can do. Following yet more issues (and weeks of car in shop) I once again gathered documentation and once more opened a ticket at 31k on the odo. Guess what? Same result! Finally, fast-forward to 49k on the odo, and more issues (we had the 50k maintenance and warranty package due to Diesel Gate deal). I once again went through my routine of gathering documentation and opening a ticket, but this time I reached out to the new car sales manager and brought up the issue to him and that we would like to trade our lemon IF VC USA would offer assistance. The sales manager said sure I'll look into it, but it seemed doubtful to me from the sound of it. About 2 weeks go by and once again I get the assistance claim denied and closed at which point I immediately called the sales manager in question and kindly requested if he could possibly reach out to my VC USA rep I have been working with. He agreed. Almost within the hour I get a second email from VC USA notifying me that my claim was denied in error and that I should stand by for further details. After about a week or so, I get a call from my now familiar and friendly sales manager, and finally I hear what I wanted to hear; VC USA has approved your trade assistance claim. He said typically they offer around $2k-$4k off a brand new model, depending on the trim. Ultimately we ended up with $5k off a brand new vehicle, but had to trade our old one in, obviously. During my the final battle with VC USA, I reached out to a lemon attorney and after reviewing my service records the vehicle qualified for the Magnus-Moss Warranty Act breach at a value of $5k to $10k in free and clear cash all fees included. We decided to go through with the trade BUT had to go through hell and back to get what we got, to be made whole (sort of). In any event, your car's service history seems slightly more significant than mine so I am willing to bet my 2YO that you too qualify for either of the above options. This may not need to be said but remember, NEVER mention anything about a lawyer when dealing with Volvo unless you want them to cut all communication with you and turn over to their legal dept.
      Why the reference to Diesel Gate?
      2016 XC90 T6 First Edition (64k)
      2011 Mini Cooper Clubman JCW (84k)
      SOLD: 2007 S80 3.2 (86k)
      SOLD: 2008 XC90 V8 Executive (91k)
      SOLD: 2007 S80 3.2 (80k)

    13. #11
      I only mentioned the VW thing because at that time Volvo offered a great, and free, 50k maintenance for current VW owners, which we were at the time. Still are actually. One of those gimmick deals to get you to switch brands if you will.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    14. #12
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      Thank you Volvo Tech, this is exactly the type of information I need so I know what to expect!

      I picked up my car today and brought a printout listing the date and mileage and what all has been repaired/replaced. I went through it with my service manager and he was shocked to see how much has been done to my car in 1 document. He told me he would never buy a first-year car, that they are really more prototypes and they fix the issues in later models. He admitted 2016s have a lot of problems, but mine seems to be excessive. He too advised me to contact Volvo and said that if I just show them all these repairs they definitely should help me get in a new Volvo.

      After my experience with the XC90, I am hesitant to get into another. My advisor did say that with the 2019s all he has seen are software issues, so I guess that gives me some hope. And my husband has a 2016 S60 and he has had no problems, so that gives me a little more hope.

      Now I need Volvo USA to step up and do the right thing.

      Also, can anyone help me decode my latest service report? I have no clue what "running lean" and "RTV" are. And my oil level is really low. I am concerned the excessive fuel consumption issue still has not been fixed.

      FOUND ECM-P017100. O2 SENSORS TO BE MAXED OUT READING LEAN INDICATING AN AIR LEAK IN SYSTEM. SMOKE TEST FOUND MULTIPLE LEAKS OUT OF SUPERCHARGER DUCTING. (new supercharger less than 2,000 miles ago) SMOKE TEST FOUND MULTIPLE LEAKS OUT OF SUPERCHARGER DUCTING. REINSTALLED & RESET FUEL ADAPTATIONS. FOUND VEHICLE STILL RUNNING LEAN. SMOKE TESTED FOUND SMOKE LEAKING OUT OF EXHAUST MANIFOLD. FOUND BOLTS LOOSE. TORQUED EXHAUST MANIFOLD TO SPEC & REINSTALLED SUPERCHARGER. RESET FUEL TRIMS FOUND VEHICLE TO STILL BE RUNNING SLIGHTLY LEAN. REMOVED BREATHER BOX AND FOUND PORTS ON CAM COVER CLOGGED WITH RTV. REMOVED EXCESS RTV & RESEALED BREATHER BOX. RESET FUEL TRIMS

    15. #13

      Help needed - I don't think my car will ever run properly again. Is it a lemon? Trade Assist a possibility?

      MKS, don't worry yourself about decoding any of the service records. It's a waste of time. Just keep filling it with oil and whatever you need to keep it running if you need to. Hell I'd even park it if you can. Bottom line is the car is a liability and you want it in working order when you get the trade appraisal. Work with you sales manager. Remember that he's trying to make a buck too so don't show him your hand. BUT from my experience, he's the gate keeper to your assistance. I was a joke to Volvo cars USA until he got involved. I'm confident that our 2020 model is what a Volvo should be, but that's just my opinion. I would rather have the 2020 than three certified lemon our 2016 was. Shoot me a pm and I'll share the exact financial value we received. I mean in terms of trade value and such. If not, I wish you best of luck.

      Edit: get in touch with the Sales manager. Don't leave it up to the service manager.

      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    16. #14
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      RTV seems to be silicon sealant. So when the breath box was replaced before, too much sealant was used there? I hope they get it right this time.

      But the excessive oil consumption is the critical issue. Engine running lean issue can be properly fixed relatively easily.

      Fusion · Red · T8 · XC60
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 234+k miles

    17. #15
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      Thank you both! Volvo Tech, I took your advice...

      Here is my update so far:

      My husband and I both bought new Volvos in 2016 from Patrick at Bayway Volvo. A year later we sent a friend to Patrick and she bought a Volvo. Today I emailed Patrick and the CEO and GM of Bayway and asked for their help. I provided a timeline with dates and what all was fixed or replaced and attached all the service records. I received a call from Patrick and an email from the GM within an hour. I think the GM wasn't too pleased that I started taking my car for service to a different dealership for the past 2 years (the other dealership is a lot closer to me) because he mentioned that in his reply, however he did cc the guy from Volvo who they work with on trade assists.

      Interesting that dealerships have a contact for these type of situations. Was anyone else aware of this?

    18. #16
      Excellent! Trust me, things will start happening fast. If they don't, escalate to your other option I mentioned. You guys do not deserve that sorry excuse for a quality car that you forked over $50k for. And don't put too much info out in the open for all of the internet to see until you're satisfied with the outcome. Who knows who is reading these posts from the other side. Hell, they might eve think you're putting them on blast and tell you to beat it. Again, PM me if you need more insight from what I experienced. But do give us an update once you're made whole again, pretty please. Might be helpful for the community.

    19. #17
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      I spoke with the GM today and he has already been in contact with Volvo and they have agreed to a trade assist. So wonderful to work with quality people who want to do the right thing!

      Will keep you posted...

    20. #18
      Quote Originally Posted by MKS View Post
      I spoke with the GM today and he has already been in contact with Volvo and they have agreed to a trade assist. So wonderful to work with quality people who want to do the right thing!

      Will keep you posted...
      Congratulations! Hopefully things will concluded to your satisfaction.

    21. #19
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      Final update:

      I received a very generous trade-in value for my car, a generous trade assist from Volvo and drove home today my new 2020 T6 Inscription!

      My car was back from service 6 days and the low oil level light came on. The other dealership where I was having my car serviced knew that when I picked up my car my oil level was on the very low side and told me it wasn't a problem until the oil light came on. They had to have known they never fixed the excessive oil consumption issue to start with. The previous time I got my car back from being serviced there it was only 4 days until the engine light came on, and they told me not to worry about it until it started flashing. All they did was to tell me to contact Volvo. I am so angry at that dealership. We had the worst experience at this dealer when we were looking to buy 2 Volvos in 2016. I should have known their service department would be crappy and unethical too. I should have known better than to get my car serviced there, but they were closer and more convenient...

      My experience with Bayway was the polar opposite. Within 24 hours of my email they had Volvo agreeing to a trade assist; within 4 days I am in a new XC90.

      I never knew before what a difference a dealership makes when buying a car.

      Thank you all!

    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by MKS View Post
      Final update:

      I received a very generous trade-in value for my car, a generous trade assist from Volvo and drove home today my new 2020 T6 Inscription!

      My car was back from service 6 days and the low oil level light came on. The other dealership where I was having my car serviced knew that when I picked up my car my oil level was on the very low side and told me it wasn't a problem until the oil light came on. They had to have known they never fixed the excessive oil consumption issue to start with. The previous time I got my car back from being serviced there it was only 4 days until the engine light came on, and they told me not to worry about it until it started flashing. All they did was to tell me to contact Volvo. I am so angry at that dealership. We had the worst experience at this dealer when we were looking to buy 2 Volvos in 2016. I should have known their service department would be crappy and unethical too. I should have known better than to get my car serviced there, but they were closer and more convenient...

      My experience with Bayway was the polar opposite. Within 24 hours of my email they had Volvo agreeing to a trade assist; within 4 days I am in a new XC90.

      I never knew before what a difference a dealership makes when buying a car.

      Thank you all!
      Congrats on the new car and the quick turnaround of your dealer!
      Happy rolling ahead.
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 234+k miles

    23. #21
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      Congrats! I am so happy that you were able to stay in a Volvo. You did all the right moves to advocate for yourself. It is stressful, but it makes a difference.


      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
      2020 XC40 R Design T5 Polestar, bursting blue, July 2019
      2015 V60 T5, crystal pearl, platinum/tech/BLIS, July 2015
      2012 XC60 R Design, electric silver, off-black, platinum/climate/tech/BLIS, OSD in Nov 2011
      2004 XC90 2.5T, silver, OSD in Oct 2003

    24. #22
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      I have the excessive oil issue as well 2016 XC90 T6 Inscription w/ 43K miles...pistons/rings letting oil drain and it burns up on cylinder walls...Dealer worked with me on replacement...however they found scoring, so now its a NEW MOTOR. They have it a month so far as we are racking up the mileage on a loaner 2020 XC60.

      Motor will be warrantied as long as I own the vehicle but I am going to see what they will do to trade it in when the work is completed.

      Anyone willing to share details of their buyback/trade assistance? From KBB, the car has lost ~50% of its value (UGH!)...so for me its worth (issues aside) would be $30K-$33K, but now w/ a new motor.

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