Help with "Reduced Engine Performance" turtle warning
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    1. #1
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      Help with "Reduced Engine Performance" turtle warning

      I'm about to get my 2018 XC60 T6 (R-design, with P* tune) towed to the dealer after experiencing the dreaded turtle of reduced performance for the second time.

      My wife had it happen to her a couple of weeks ago. The error didn't reappear and I managed to drive it to the dealer a couple of days later. The Volvo techs couldn't find any error codes or reproduce it so they updated me to the latest software and passed it back. It's been running fine since that time.

      Today, I went to use the car and it started, then showed the check engine/turtle/reduced engine performance error lights and shut off. I waited a few minutes and it will light up, but no longer starts. [EDIT: It will now start but has capped my speed to 25mph to protect the engine]

      I've heard of "turtle" issues with the T8s, but not T6s. Any ideas on what might be wrong?


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      Last edited by Veritas99; 12-06-2019 at 01:54 PM.

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    3. #2
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      I suppose your options are:

      1) buy a $10 ODBII code reader and pull the codes (if any)
      2) take it to the dealer
      3) post on swedespeed and request speculative diagnoses based on zero data

      Looks like #2 and #3 are the winner this time. I'd recommend #1 and #2 next time.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    4. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      I suppose your options are:

      1) buy a $10 ODBII code reader and pull the codes (if any)
      2) take it to the dealer
      3) post on swedespeed and request speculative diagnoses based on zero data

      Looks like #2 and #3 are the winner this time. I'd recommend #1 and #2 next time.
      Thanks for the useful reply.

      Perhaps I wasn't being entirely clear in my original post, so allow me to clarify...

      There have been a number of posts where T8s have had gone into limp mode with the turtle/reduced engine performance error lights. In many of those instances, people have reported that those errors have traced back to issues with the battery. I'm simply asking whether anyone is aware of common issues causing reduced engine performance in the newer T6s.

      For example, I previously found a thread about a possible software issue with T6s and reduced performance from last year (https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ne-performance), but was hoping there was more current information.

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    6. #4
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      The T8 is a T6 (ICE) + EV. Some of the "reduced performance" issues were related to ICE, some were related to EV. It's a mixed bag.

      There have been numerous posts regarding "reduced performance" for the T5 and T6, as well. The point is, if something in the drivetrain fails, you'll get that error to avoid drivetrain damage.

      You're asking folks to speculate as to your specific issue with zero data. That's absurd.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    7. #5
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      For years a known problem that Volvo developers are unable to solve (XC60 / XC90 /S90 .....)

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ced-perfomance

      AND.... AND.....

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...d-acceleration

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ne-performance

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ormance-18XC60




      Don't buy the $ 10 OBDII code reader because it won't help you in this case
      Last edited by BigBang; 12-06-2019 at 04:21 PM.
      2018 XC60 T5 R-Design

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      You're asking folks to speculate as to your specific issue with zero data. That's absurd.
      Iím not asking you or anyone else to provide a specific diagnosis of my car. I thought I clarified in my last post, Iím asking a community of XC60 owners if they are aware of common issues with newer T6s that cause this error. Kinda thought that was the point of this type of forum.

    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      For years a known problem that Volvo developers are unable to solve (XC60 / XC90 /S90 .....)

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ced-perfomance

      AND.... AND.....

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...d-acceleration

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ne-performance

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ormance-18XC60




      Don't buy the $ 10 OBDII code reader because it won't help you in this case
      Thanks for the links.

    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      For years a known problem that Volvo developers are unable to solve (XC60 / XC90 /S90 .....)

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ced-perfomance

      AND.... AND.....

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...d-acceleration

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ne-performance

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ormance-18XC60




      Don't buy the $ 10 OBDII code reader because it won't help you in this case
      Without knowing his codes, you have no way of telling what his problem is. But of course you'll use it to claim the problem is unsolvable and he should buy an Audi.

    11. #9
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Veritas99 View Post
      Iím not asking you or anyone else to provide a specific diagnosis of my car. I thought I clarified in my last post, Iím asking a community of XC60 owners if they are aware of common issues with newer T6s that cause this error. Kinda thought that was the point of this type of forum.
      There isn't a "common" issue for the "reduced performance" error. I thought I made that clear too.

      Wait until the dealer calls you. Speculation will get you nowhere.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    12. #10
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Without knowing his codes, you have no way of telling what his problem is. But of course you'll use it to claim the problem is unsolvable and he should buy an Audi.
      When you are so clever, explain why the problem is not solved even after up to 3 years.
      All errors remain logged in the ECU unit, every time this happens to me it is logged and technicians in the service have seen the same

      Of course there is no perfect car, all have some flaws, but other work on how to solve the shortcomings
      Audi does not have this problem because it has capable developers or uses companies that have developers who know what they are doing
      Last edited by BigBang; 12-07-2019 at 06:02 AM.
      2018 XC60 T5 R-Design

    13. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Without knowing his codes, you have no way of telling what his problem is. But of course you'll use it to claim the problem is unsolvable and he should buy an Audi.
      When you are so clever, explain why the problem is not solved even after up to 3 years.
      All errors remain logged in the ECU unit, every time this happens to me it is logged and technicians in the service have seen the same

      Of course there is no perfect car, all have some flaws, but other work on how to solve the shortcomings
      Audi does not have this problem because it has capable developers or uses companies that have developers who know what they are doing

      Great, and that's a problem with your car. We don't know his codes. So that doesn't mean it's the problem with his car.

      And I still have yet to see that problem on any car, so I don't think it is as widespread as you claim.

    14. #12
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Great, and that's a problem with your car. We don't know his codes. So that doesn't mean it's the problem with his car.

      And I still have yet to see that problem on any car, so I don't think it is as widespread as you claim.
      It's not widespread, maybe it's not for you
      Appears on all models: XC60, XC90, S90 with Polestar and without Polestar
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    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Great, and that's a problem with your car. We don't know his codes. So that doesn't mean it's the problem with his car.

      And I still have yet to see that problem on any car, so I don't think it is as widespread as you claim.
      It's not widespread, maybe it's not for you
      Appears on all models: XC60, XC90, S90 with Polestar and without Polestar
      Those are not all models. But yes, all SPA and CMA cars do have the capability of displaying the turtle icon and giving that message. For various faults.

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      There isn't a "common" issue for the "reduced performance" error. I thought I made that clear too.

      Wait until the dealer calls you. Speculation will get you nowhere.
      Yeah, I guess Iím just a little salty that an 18 month old car with 7k miles already has engine issues. Doesnít help that it happened on the same day my 10 year old Acura RDX was in for routine service (which is all itís ever needed).

      Iíll updated the post with any codes/issues that the dealer finds.

    17. #15
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      I had it happen on a new car I was getting ready for delivery. I believe it ended up being the cam positioning sensor. But that's just one example of many things that could cause it. Anything where the engine is preventing damage will cause this.

    18. #16
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Those are not all models. But yes, all SPA and CMA cars do have the capability of displaying the turtle icon and giving that message. For various faults.
      I'm sorry I couldn't be more precise on the SPA platform on the models: XC90, XC60, XC40, S90 / V90
      2018 XC60 T5 R-Design

    19. #17
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Veritas99 View Post
      Yeah, I guess Iím just a little salty that an 18 month old car with 7k miles already has engine issues. Doesnít help that it happened on the same day my 10 year old Acura RDX was in for routine service (which is all itís ever needed).
      Ya, I've been there too. Around 400 miles, the high voltage contactor on my T8 died, rendering the EV portion of my T8 non-functional (turtle icon). Sucks, but the dealer addressed the problem within a few days. No issues since then.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    20. #18
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      Just to close the loop, I wanted to post the results of my visit to the dealer.

      The only code they could find related to the fuel system (see below), but they initially said the fuel system was working fine based on a physical inspection. The service manager told me that Volvo USA advised them to update a specific software module. That apparently resulted in the check engine light going away, but the code came back after they drove it for a bit. They ended up replacing the injection pump and fuel pipe, which seems to have done the trick. They also updated my general software to the most current version (e.g. ďDynamicĒ is now ďPolestar EngineeredĒ on the drive mode selection screen).

      Hopefully this was a one-off issue as the car seems to be running fine now.


    21. #19
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Glad it's resolved.

      Side observation - SmallBang is proven correct yet again. Ha.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    22. #20
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      Do you think the technician really drove it for a total of 270 miles?

      If so, they must have a bunch of go-for people who they get to test drive them. Right? Probably like some teenager earning minimum wage? I canít imagine a fully trained technician being preoccupied with driving for 4 hours around town (or the highway). Thoughts? When I retire Iíll have to look into getting such a job. Professional test driver. I bet it beats working at McDonalds or being a greeter at Walmart

    23. #21
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Joeyboy View Post
      Do you think the technician really drove it for a total of 270 miles?
      It's normal for a tech to drive it home on extended test drives.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    24. #22
      Junior Member PSamy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Joeyboy View Post
      Do you think the technician really drove it for a total of 270 miles?

      If so, they must have a bunch of go-for people who they get to test drive them. Right? Probably like some teenager earning minimum wage? I canít imagine a fully trained technician being preoccupied with driving for 4 hours around town (or the highway). Thoughts? When I retire Iíll have to look into getting such a job. Professional test driver. I bet it beats working at McDonalds or being a greeter at Walmart
      Interesting observation, what if that car is leased? will VCFS extend those miles for free?
      2019 XC60 - T6 - R-Design - Polestar - Air Suspension W/Four-C Chassis - Advance - Crystal White Pearl - 21" R-Design Wheels

    25. #23
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      Like lamarguy said, if a car needs an extended test drive we drive them home (with customer permission).

    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Like lamarguy said, if a car needs an extended test drive we drive them home (with customer permission).
      And, I have granted such permission before so that the dealer could figure out the root cause of the problem.
      2018 V90 T5 R Design FWD | Crystal White / Charcoal, Full Napa Leather | 20" R Design Diamond Cut Wheels | Convenience Package | Laminated Glass | Heated Seats/Steering Wheel | Powered Load Cover | Rubber Floor Mats | Integrated Child Safety Seats

      Former Volvos: 2018 V60 Dynamic, 2008 S80 3.2 (first one with adaptive cruise in US), 2006 XC90 V8, 2004 V70ASR, 2003 V70ASR (OSD and replaced by 04 due to tranny problem with valve body), 03 S80 T6 (OSD), 99 V70 and 98 V70 (twins wagons to match our new born twins), 96 850GTA wagon, 93 940 Wagon (Cloth, no sunoof), 92 240 and 90 240 DL.

    27. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Joeyboy View Post
      Do you think the technician really drove it for a total of 270 miles?
      So, short answer is mostly. Trip journal shows they drove it a total of 248 miles across the 2.5 days they were working on it. I did have to give permission for the tech to take it home/drive it around. That said, when they asked me if the tech could take it home to see if code came back, I didn't know he lived 60 miles away from the dealer.

      Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

    28. #26
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Like lamarguy said, if a car needs an extended test drive we drive them home (with customer permission).
      You have to be kidding. Why is he driving his car home. Why not do it during business hours. When finished, he parks the car in the repair shop

      248 miles - 400km for a vehicle test
      I know about 10-60km but 400km (248 miles) I never heard or read anywhere

      What happens if he experiences a car accident outside business hours or steals car front home
      Last edited by BigBang; 12-14-2019 at 03:52 PM.
      2018 XC60 T5 R-Design

    29. #27
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Veritas99 View Post
      So, short answer is mostly. Trip journal shows they drove it a total of 248 miles across the 2.5 days they were working on it. I did have to give permission for the tech to take it home/drive it around. That said, when they asked me if the tech could take it home to see if code came back, I didn't know he lived 60 miles away from the dealer.

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    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Like lamarguy said, if a car needs an extended test drive we drive them home (with customer permission).
      You have to be kidding. Why is he driving his car home. Why not do it during business hours. When finished, he parks the car in the repair shop

      248 miles - 400km for a vehicle test
      I know about 10-60km but 400km (248 miles) I never heard or read anywhere

      What happens if he experiences a car accident outside business hours or steals car front home <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" />
      I'm not kidding. We aren't paid hourly. If I'm driving around all day, I'm not being paid. So if a car needs an extended test drive, it isn't uncommon to have someone who lives far away take it home, with permission. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean anything.

      If there is an accident or car theft, it is handled just like it usually would be- through insurance.

      At my dealership, only technicians who have a garage to park in can take cars home.

    31. #29
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I'm not kidding. We aren't paid hourly. If I'm driving around all day, I'm not being paid. So if a car needs an extended test drive, it isn't uncommon to have someone who lives far away take it home, with permission. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean anything.

      If there is an accident or car theft, it is handled just like it usually would be- through insurance.

      At my dealership, only technicians who have a garage to park in can take cars home.
      Isn't a 5-35 mile test drive a part of car repair. I haven't said all day. You will not test the car for 8 hours a day or 300-400 miles

      Why would my insurance pay for the damage you did ?
      2018 XC60 T5 R-Design

    32. #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Veritas99 View Post
      I'm about to get my 2018 XC60 T6 (R-design, with P* tune) towed to the dealer after experiencing the dreaded turtle of reduced performance for the second time.

      My wife had it happen to her a couple of weeks ago. The error didn't reappear and I managed to drive it to the dealer a couple of days later. The Volvo techs couldn't find any error codes or reproduce it so they updated me to the latest software and passed it back. It's been running fine since that time.

      Today, I went to use the car and it started, then showed the check engine/turtle/reduced engine performance error lights and shut off. I waited a few minutes and it will light up, but no longer starts. [EDIT: It will now start but has capped my speed to 25mph to protect the engine]

      I've heard of "turtle" issues with the T8s, but not T6s. Any ideas on what might be wrong?
      Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
      I don't think anyone is trying to be snarky. Your vehicle is under warranty, and the issue is best diagnosed by the dealer. They'll hook up an OBDII and read the codes. Anyone guessing without a code is merely guessing here. So one person's experience might vary from yours.

      Best to make a service visit and have Volvo Towing (free) tow to the dealer of your choice.

    33. #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Veritas99 View Post
      So, short answer is mostly. Trip journal shows they drove it a total of 248 miles across the 2.5 days they were working on it. I did have to give permission for the tech to take it home/drive it around. That said, when they asked me if the tech could take it home to see if code came back, I didn't know he lived 60 miles away from the dealer.

      Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
      Well you wanted it test driven. Would you prefer the Tech take it 5 miles down the road and say you're "OK". Then you would complain the tech didn't even give the vehicle a chance to generate a fault.

      Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    34. #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I'm not kidding. We aren't paid hourly. If I'm driving around all day, I'm not being paid. So if a car needs an extended test drive, it isn't uncommon to have someone who lives far away take it home, with permission. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean anything.

      If there is an accident or car theft, it is handled just like it usually would be- through insurance.

      At my dealership, only technicians who have a garage to park in can take cars home.
      And...It gives you (the tech) an opportunity to road test the vehicle in real world conditions... Other than say a 5 mile loop around the block. As critical as I may be, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you take car on 5 mile loop, throw keys back to owner, and a problem arises they'll bitch and moan.

      If you take their car on a swing around town and put some road miles on it, they're unhappy you drove their car.

      Dear lord...

    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Well you wanted it test driven. Would you prefer the Tech take it 5 miles down the road and say you're "OK". Then you would complain the tech didn't even give the vehicle a chance to generate a fault.

      Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
      I have no problem with them driving whatever amount they feel is necessary to test it. The first night the tech who took it home was ~25 miles away from the dealer, which is why I was surprised to see it so far away the second night (if you lived in my area, you wouldnít even consider where it ended up to be geographically related).

    36. #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Veritas99 View Post
      I have no problem with them driving whatever amount they feel is necessary to test it. The first night the tech who took it home was ~25 miles away from the dealer, which is why I was surprised to see it so far away the second night (if you lived in my area, you wouldnít even consider where it ended up to be geographically related).
      Consider the problem in another Context. I presume you must work if you bought a 2018+ XC60. It's not like you're buying a Kia.

      Scenario 1: You took time off work to bring the car / Used your day off to drive down to dealer with a problem.

      A. Do you want dealer try and find the problem? Some problems can be intermittent in nature and may not be easily replicated.
      B. Do you want the dealer to simply do a cursory check. Hook up ODB II say there are no codes or we can't find the reason for a code and send Car out the door?

      Scenario 2: Dealer does send the car out the door with a 25 mile drive.....

      A. Customer is stuck bringing the car back if the fault reappears
      B. Customer is now unhappy he's at the dealer for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th time.

      End of the day, I think your dealer is customer oriented. While you may not be thrilled your car clocked a few hundred miles, it shows the dealer is making a concerted effort to replicate the problem in real world driving. Beats the hell out of you getting stuck and waiting for a tow truck...

      FYI MY 15.5 S60 FWD had a major gremlin with the backup camera that took 4 trips to rectify. Only reason I DIDN'T lemon the car was the dealer went above and beyond to try and solve the issue. Unfortunately, it was one of those hard to replicate gremlins.
      Last edited by MyVolvoS60; 12-15-2019 at 09:50 AM.

    37. #35
      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      Isn't a 5-35 mile test drive a part of car repair. I haven't said all day. You will not test the car for 8 hours a day or 300-400 miles

      Why would my insurance pay for the damage you did ?
      Dealer would be responsible if a tech crashed the car.....You aren't the one operating it in the event of an accident. That's how fault works.

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