Avoid Mitchell Volvo of Simsbury CT - or am I being unreasonable? - Page 2
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    1. #36
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      I've had my share of duds over the years. A missing key fob or balding tires don't exactly qualify as a bad experience when it comes to buying used cars.

      Always test drive the car in a quiet dead end street to hear for suspension noises, I once negotiated with a used car dealer to replace worn out struts at a discount. Another time after 2 successive failures on a low mileage CRV (a dead battery, worn out clutch) I made a deal to swap out the lower mileage CRV for a higher mileage Explorer which had less problems.

      Mileage is where these used cars suffer sometimes unfair depreciation. A higher mileage one may have been driven 90% highway on great roads whereas the lower mileage one may have been used in bumper to bumper traffic in pot-holed riddled streets by someone who rarely did P.M.

      Like the old saying goes once you let the cat out of the bag you never know what'll come up next. And in the end it's all luck.
      2012 S60 T5 FWD & 2013 XC90 AWD

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    3. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by Highwayman View Post
      I've had my share of duds over the years. A missing key fob or balding tires don't exactly qualify as a bad experience when it comes to buying used cars.

      .
      Appreciate you minimizing my experience.

    4. #38
      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      The dealer in NH was the one who asked about date code. I didn't bring it up, it was brought up to me. I didn't even check, the service manager did when i brought the vehicle in for alignment and it was he who told me it would have never driven off their lot with those tires. He told me this unprompted.

      If normal wear, to you, is completely uneven wear across the tire, sure. There's zero depth on the inside edge of one tire, while there's plenty of dept at the center and on the outside edge. How is that normal? These tires left the dealer with reportedly uniform(and uniform by my eyes) tread wear and close to new tread depth measurements, not depth that matched the 39k miles on the odometer.

      I accept I have to buy a new set. Still, I bring up a legitimate annoyance, the 1-key thing to the dealer and they tell me to piss off because their records show it was sold with two and I'm still a complainer. I've literally gotten nothing from the dealer but disrespect since the purchase.
      Sadly, you can air your grievances here, but there's not much any of us can do to assist. Your biggest problem is the passage of time.

      1. In 10,000 you could have drag raced on the tires. If there was a problem, point of sale or right after would be the time to raise issue. After the fact leaves you little room for argument.

      2. Again, why'd you wait so long on key fob? Dealer can simply claim it gave you two, and you lost one. The time to raise concern was when you got the vehicle. Months later, you're at the mercy of the dealership, and a hunch says they've got your money, and care less about "appeasing you".

      But, your best hope for ANY RESOLUTION: Go to dealer Monday to Friday during normal business hours. Ask to speak to General Manager, and politely let him know why you're upset and see if he's willing to check any boxes that might make you happy. I.E. getting you 2nd key fob.

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    6. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      Sadly, you can air your grievances here, but there's not much any of us can do to assist. Your biggest problem is the passage of time.

      1. In 10,000 you could have drag raced on the tires. If there was a problem, point of sale or right after would be the time to raise issue. After the fact leaves you little room for argument.

      2. Again, why'd you wait so long on key fob? Dealer can simply claim it gave you two, and you lost one. The time to raise concern was when you got the vehicle. Months later, you're at the mercy of the dealership, and a hunch says they've got your money, and care less about "appeasing you".

      But, your best hope for ANY RESOLUTION: Go to dealer Monday to Friday during normal business hours. Ask to speak to General Manager, and politely let him know why you're upset and see if he's willing to check any boxes that might make you happy. I.E. getting you 2nd key fob.
      2- it's like people don't want to read? Not trying to be a dick but I feel like I've explained this a few times. My wife reminded me that we asked during the signing. We were told there was only one key. We were neither made aware we could ask for the inspection report, nor did we receive one. Had we, we'd have seen the requirement for CPO vehicles to get 2 keys. Once learning the tires were junk I was in contact with Volvo USA who provided a CPO checklist where I saw a 2 key requirement for certification. That's why it took so long.

      We live over 2.5 hours from the dealer. They don't care. Volvo USA apparently lets the dealers do whatever they want and wont even enforce a CPO certification issue.

    7. #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      2- it's like people don't want to read? Not trying to be a dick but I feel like I've explained this a few times. My wife reminded me that we asked during the signing. We were told there was only one key. We were neither made aware we could ask for the inspection report, nor did we receive one. Had we, we'd have seen the requirement for CPO vehicles to get 2 keys. Once learning the tires were junk I was in contact with Volvo USA who provided a CPO checklist where I saw a 2 key requirement for certification. That's why it took so long.

      We live over 2.5 hours from the dealer. They don't care. Volvo USA apparently lets the dealers do whatever they want and wont even enforce a CPO certification issue.
      We read but again there is nothing the dealer or even Volvo can do after 6 months. This should have all been brought up within days of the purchase; I know a lot of items you didn't look for or weren't aware of so again...take it as a lesson learned for your next vehicle purchase.
      I don't like defending the dealer as some dealers do play games but you have to catch them. When your wife asked and they said there's only one key the following applies:
      1) The person she asked might not have known better. If I would have received that answer I would have requested to talk to the used car sales manager and asked for the second key.
      2) If the used car sales manager didn't know about a second key then I would have requested one (again, I always request two keys when buying a used car due to my lesson learned 14 years ago as mentioned in my other post.
      3) You guys were fine with just getting one key, which sounds like you were or else you would have asked for a second one.

      I know the last bullet will make you state: "But we didn't know then and know now that a CPO Volvo should have two keys." This could have all been researched online prior to buying the car.

      It's unfair to state that Volvo USA lets dealers do whatever as they can't audit every single dealer to make sure that all CPO cars have two keys and that the inspector filled out the CPO form correctly when he checked that two keys are present. The buyer has the responsibility to do research as well. You strike me as the kind of person that would buy a house without getting an inspection and asking tough questions and then suing the previous owner 6 months later because the roof is leaking.
      Last edited by FAUGrad; 01-08-2020 at 03:30 PM.

    8. #41
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      Quote Originally Posted by FAUGrad View Post
      We read but again there is nothing the dealer or even Volvo can do after 6 months. This should have all been brought up within days of the purchase; I know a lot of items you didn't look for or weren't aware of so again...take it as a lesson learned for your next vehicle purchase.
      I don't like defending the dealer as some dealers do play games but you have to catch them. When your wife asked and they said there's only one key the following applies:
      1) The person she asked might not have known better. If I would have received that answer I would have requested to talk to the used car sales manager and asked for the second key.
      2) If the used car sales manager didn't know about a second key then I would have requested one (again, I always request two keys when buying a used car due to my lesson learned 14 years ago as mentioned in my other post.
      3) You guys were fine with just getting one key, which sounds like you were or else you would have asked for a second one.

      I know the last bullet will make you state: "But we didn't know then and know now that a CPO Volvo should have two keys." This could have all been researched online prior to buying the car.

      It's unfair to state that Volvo USA lets dealers do whatever as they can't audit every single dealer to make sure that all CPO cars have two keys and that the inspector filled out the CPO form correctly when he checked that two keys are present. The buyer has the responsibility to do research as well. You strike me as the kind of person that would buy a house without getting an inspection and asking tough questions and then suing the previous owner 6 months later because the roof is leaking.
      Because our sales rep screwed up all of our paperwork and because the dealership wasn't busy, we were pushed immediately to the finance manager that did basically everything and he was the one answering our questions, with incorrect info. The info about CT registration, about finance rates, about our Credit Union financing being a terrible deal, about the extension to the CPO warranty, and about the key was all incorrect and little lies to get is to finalize the sale.

      Nice, put it on the buyer, don't have any dealer standards. That's how I roll! You're right, I should have known ahead of time, after having zero issues with my first CPO vehicle before, during or after the purchase to look up the CPO inspection checklist and look at each and every item because I knew going in that Volvo wouldn't help me after...you're right, that's my fault.

      Volvo USA is telling me they can't help here. If the Dealership is falsifying CPO inspection reports or not complying with the requirement made by VOLVO to certify the vehicle, who else is the authority BUT Volvo? Volvo is basically saying they don't audit this process and the dealer could fudge the reports and Volvo will just advise the buyer to talk to the dealer.

      I'm literally getting nothing from this, nothing from Volvo, nothing from the dealership, not even what is owed in the CPO cert. I won! All this effort and look at what my complaining got me- so much free stuff! Everyone else is to blame for my problems! Yep..absolutely.

      I've bought homes, done beyond my diligence and still got screwed with unknowns, but suing people? You equate someone complaining about a terrible customer service experience, premature tire wear and lack of a key fob to buying houses and then suing?

    9. #42
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      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      Appreciate you minimizing my experience.
      No problem, in the end it's always the little things that get us. Learned after 30 years of driving about 9 cars ( 5 mine, 4 the wife)

      still got about 50 years to go..if I'm lucky lol

      We can drive, we can have cars, it's a good country.
      2012 S60 T5 FWD & 2013 XC90 AWD

    10. #43
      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      2- it's like people don't want to read? Not trying to be a dick but I feel like I've explained this a few times. My wife reminded me that we asked during the signing. We were told there was only one key. We were neither made aware we could ask for the inspection report, nor did we receive one. Had we, we'd have seen the requirement for CPO vehicles to get 2 keys. Once learning the tires were junk I was in contact with Volvo USA who provided a CPO checklist where I saw a 2 key requirement for certification. That's why it took so long.

      We live over 2.5 hours from the dealer. They don't care. Volvo USA apparently lets the dealers do whatever they want and wont even enforce a CPO certification issue.
      You make trying to help a chore. Your wife ASKED, they did not provide the key. Therefore, you should have had it written into the contract a key would be provided. You did not.

      6 months have elapsed and now you're still upset. Long before 6 months passed, you should have contacted the Dealership General Manager or Volvo Corporate.

      A. How long did you wait to complain about tires? You should have inspected the car. It's a used vehicle, skipping a due diligence inspection, rests squarely on you. CPO or Not, it's your obligation as a buyer to make sure good are as advertised. You bought a car with 40,000 miles.

      B. I understand about the key fob. Again, you didn't bother hopping on google and researching. And once you found out about key, you've now had zero luck getting one.

      So your options are to REACH OUT to the General Manager in Person or Send him an email making him aware of the situation. See if he'll assist. Otherwise, you're out of luck if Volvo Corporate won't aid your quest.

      We've all screwed up and made bad decisions in life. You learn from then and move forward. So angry or not, taking this out on members here only alienates you from any assistance folks have to offer.

    11. #44
      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      Because our sales rep screwed up all of our paperwork and because the dealership wasn't busy, we were pushed immediately to the finance manager that did basically everything and he was the one answering our questions, with incorrect info. The info about CT registration, about finance rates, about our Credit Union financing being a terrible deal, about the extension to the CPO warranty, and about the key was all incorrect and little lies to get is to finalize the sale.
      So you were rushed through a used car purchase with high pressure sales, and instead of speaking up or walking away from the purchase, you opted to sign the paperwork. You're the consumer, you could have left, but instead you did not.

      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      Nice, put it on the buyer, don't have any dealer standards. That's how I roll! You're right, I should have known ahead of time, after having zero issues with my first CPO vehicle before, during or after the purchase to look up the CPO inspection checklist and look at each and every item because I knew going in that Volvo wouldn't help me after...you're right, that's my fault.
      From your combative tone, I'm guessing you are a 20 something who is a bit naive and wet behind the ears. A contract is a binding agreement, and you signed it after feeling pressured. You purchased a USED CAR without doing the necessary leg work. CPO or no CPO, the car was USED and you put your faith in the word of the salesman, whose only objective is to move a car off the lot.

      Having bought a CPO before, is even less of an excuse, as you should have been educated on the process. Learn from the mistake.

      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      Volvo USA is telling me they can't help here. If the Dealership is falsifying CPO inspection reports or not complying with the requirement made by VOLVO to certify the vehicle, who else is the authority BUT Volvo? Volvo is basically saying they don't audit this process and the dealer could fudge the reports and Volvo will just advise the buyer to talk to the dealer.
      This has been discussed where dealers are slapping a CPO on cars without undertaking the supposedly rigid and thorough inspection. My car had some defects (bought 1500 miles away from a dealer as Demo / Loaner CPO) that probably would have been rectified if I'd bought in person. Nothing major, but some interior cosmetic issues. Like rearview mirror was clouded over and needed replace. Cracked gearshift Enamel. Etc Etc.

      Issues were fixed under the CPO, but I felt they should have been corrected before the point of sale. Live and learn.

      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      I'm literally getting nothing from this, nothing from Volvo, nothing from the dealership, not even what is owed in the CPO cert. I won! All this effort and look at what my complaining got me- so much free stuff! Everyone else is to blame for my problems! Yep..absolutely.

      I've bought homes, done beyond my diligence and still got screwed with unknowns, but suing people? You equate someone complaining about a terrible customer service experience, premature tire wear and lack of a key fob to buying houses and then suing?
      So you've bought homes, and I'd hope are aware of a home inspection prior to signing a contract. So why didn't you inspect the car or take it to a 3rd party mechanic for an independent pre purchase inspection instead of relying upon the dealer? The car had 40,000 and a few years of age. It's not like you were buying a Loaner with 2,000 on the clock.

    12. #45
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      You make trying to help a chore. Your wife ASKED, they did not provide the key. Therefore, you should have had it written into the contract a key would be provided. You did not.

      6 months have elapsed and now you're still upset. Long before 6 months passed, you should have contacted the Dealership General Manager or Volvo Corporate.

      A. How long did you wait to complain about tires? You should have inspected the car. It's a used vehicle, skipping a due diligence inspection, rests squarely on you. CPO or Not, it's your obligation as a buyer to make sure good are as advertised. You bought a car with 40,000 miles.

      B. I understand about the key fob. Again, you didn't bother hopping on google and researching. And once you found out about key, you've now had zero luck getting one.

      So your options are to REACH OUT to the General Manager in Person or Send him an email making him aware of the situation. See if he'll assist. Otherwise, you're out of luck if Volvo Corporate won't aid your quest.

      We've all screwed up and made bad decisions in life. You learn from then and move forward. So angry or not, taking this out on members here only alienates you from any assistance folks have to offer.
      Unless I specifically searched for the checklist, I wouldn't have known two key fobs were required.

      We did a visual inspection, did another inspection over a month after purchase when we had the vehicle inspected. Because the alignment related tire wear was subtle, everything looked good.

      We made a sound decision, the dealership made some ****ty choices with regards to customer service and honesty. Everyone here seems to want to defend that. That's fine. My experience with Volvo in the past had suggested I didn't need to go in expecting used car dealership tactics.

    13. #46
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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      So you were rushed through a used car purchase with high pressure sales, and instead of speaking up or walking away from the purchase, you opted to sign the paperwork. You're the consumer, you could have left, but instead you did not.



      From your combative tone, I'm guessing you are a 20 something who is a bit naive and wet behind the ears. A contract is a binding agreement, and you signed it after feeling pressured. You purchased a USED CAR without doing the necessary leg work. CPO or no CPO, the car was USED and you put your faith in the word of the salesman, whose only objective is to move a car off the lot.

      Having bought a CPO before, is even less of an excuse, as you should have been educated on the process. Learn from the mistake.



      This has been discussed where dealers are slapping a CPO on cars without undertaking the supposedly rigid and thorough inspection. My car had some defects (bought 1500 miles away from a dealer as Demo / Loaner CPO) that probably would have been rectified if I'd bought in person. Nothing major, but some interior cosmetic issues. Like rearview mirror was clouded over and needed replace. Cracked gearshift Enamel. Etc Etc.

      Issues were fixed under the CPO, but I felt they should have been corrected before the point of sale. Live and learn.



      So you've bought homes, and I'd hope are aware of a home inspection prior to signing a contract. So why didn't you inspect the car or take it to a 3rd party mechanic for an independent pre purchase inspection instead of relying upon the dealer? The car had 40,000 and a few years of age. It's not like you were buying a Loaner with 2,000 on the clock.
      -No, we weren't rushed. We prepped 3 weeks in advance. Had everything ready. All we needed to do was a test drive, visual inspection, and sign paper work. The dealership was sloppy, didn't have anything prepped, and we had to start over. We were pressured, over 4 hours to use their financing and to give up the balance of our registration.

      -You'd be guessing wrong. We weren't working with a salesman, we were working with one of the managers.

      -I was highly educated on the process. I had questions that even the finance manager flubbered about to find answers to. They claimed to know the NH DMV process better than we do as residents of the state for 2 decades.

      -Pre inspection when we have limited time to make the purchase given that we drove almost 3 hours from home for the vehicle? Volvo has stood by us in the past with our first CPO vehicle. Within 10k of our own miles on that car they paid out over $8k in warranty work and that car had 10k more miles at the time of purchase than this XC60. So maybe I was expecting similar support. Not an outright credit for a new set of tires, but now that we know we were due a key, at least help us get that given the entire ordeal.

      We had it inspected over a month after ownership and absolutely nothing seemed amiss. The alignment was just out enough to cause subtle wear in that first month. About the time for a tire rotation is when we noticed the ruined tires.

    14. #47
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      From a technical and legal perspective, it seems like the dealer may have some justification for their position. However, it is undeniable that they have created a dissatisfied customer (He didn't come in the door that way!), and that's on them.

      These days we expect that package to arrive at our door no less than 48 hours after a click of a mouse AND IT BETTER BE FREE SHIPPING, DAMMIT!. If that pimple-faced kid hands over our cheeseburger without a smile on their face it's LET ME SPEAK TO THE MANAGER. We expect a lot from the people that are trying to sell us stuff, and it goes beyond just the product. it's the EXPERIENCE, and that seems to have fallen short here. OK, maybe the buyer owns some portion of the issue, but it's the dealer responsibility to establish the relationship, not his

      The right side of my left-dominated brain has sympathy for Mr. Ryboto.

    15. #48
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      This Says It All

      Quote Originally Posted by FAUGrad View Post
      The buyer has the responsibility to do research as well.
      +1
      2013 FWD Flamenco Red S60 T5, platinum, climate and tech packages with BLIS.
      2017.5 AWD Nissan Murano Platinum with tech package

    16. #49
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      From a technical and legal perspective, it seems like the dealer may have some justification for their position. However, it is undeniable that they have created a dissatisfied customer (He didn't come in the door that way!), and that's on them.

      These days we expect that package to arrive at our door no less than 48 hours after a click of a mouse AND IT BETTER BE FREE SHIPPING, DAMMIT!. If that pimple-faced kid hands over our cheeseburger without a smile on their face it's LET ME SPEAK TO THE MANAGER. We expect a lot from the people that are trying to sell us stuff, and it goes beyond just the product. it's the EXPERIENCE, and that seems to have fallen short here. OK, maybe the buyer owns some portion of the issue, but it's the dealer responsibility to establish the relationship, not his

      The right side of my left-dominated brain has sympathy for Mr. Ryboto.
      Appreciated. So many have attacked me as a complainer...I just don't understand the defense of smarmy dealers. We didn't negotiate the dealer down, as their price was fair, we paid extra to get an extension to the warranty...I'm not asking for free stuff for the sake of it. Had our experience been different at the dealer, I'd have been much much less inclined to push for some kind of retribution for the tires or the key fob. Now the situation has soured me and I have learned Volvo will just roll over for the dealer in this case. That fact is strange to me because Volvo USA was incredibly helpful in getting my local dealership to diagnose a recall related issue on our first CPO vehicle after the service manager minimized my concerns and refused to diagnose the car further.

    17. #50
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      While yes, you should have gotten two keys on a CPO vehicle, they can't just give out keys to everyone who comes back 6 months later to say they only got one.

      The tires you keep mentioning are not a valid argument at all at this point.

      This reminds me of a less extreme version of another thread from some time ago. I can't find it, but the guy bought a CPO car and two years later (if I remember correctly) found a small part of the clear coat peeling on the driver's door. He was adamant that the dealer failed to properly inspect the car during the CPO process and knew body work had been done, even though it was proven they didn't do the body work. He tried to get them to pay to fix it and made all kinds of threats to leave bad reviews, contact the attorney general, etc.

    18. #51
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      Volvo USA is telling me they can't help here. If the Dealership is falsifying CPO inspection reports or not complying with the requirement made by VOLVO to certify the vehicle, who else is the authority BUT Volvo? Volvo is basically saying they don't audit this process and the dealer could fudge the reports and Volvo will just advise the buyer to talk to the dealer.
      You can be upset, but it's 100% irrational to be upset with Volvo, it leaves open the possibility the the entire complaint is irrational. That's why you are a complainer... you'll blame anyone, even if it isn't their fault, in order for it to not be your fault.
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    19. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      While yes, you should have gotten two keys on a CPO vehicle, they can't just give out keys to everyone who comes back 6 months later to say they only got one.

      The tires you keep mentioning are not a valid argument at all at this point.

      This reminds me of a less extreme version of another thread from some time ago. I can't find it, but the guy bought a CPO car and two years later (if I remember correctly) found a small part of the clear coat peeling on the driver's door. He was adamant that the dealer failed to properly inspect the car during the CPO process and knew body work had been done, even though it was proven they didn't do the body work. He tried to get them to pay to fix it and made all kinds of threats to leave bad reviews, contact the attorney general, etc.
      My reply isn't defending the tire issue as a valid warranty or obligation of the dealer. The tires were the catalyst to push back on the dealer after the garbage experience we had. Our CPO vehicle came with a paint warranty, so if my clear coat were gone on our V60 I've got 20k miles left to get it fixed.

      We actually only received one key. My wife was TOLD the vehicle only came with one. We were lied to. Might have been an honest lie and the finance manager has no idea the CPO requirements, or might have been trying to play on our ignornance. The only internet search that tells me to expect 2 keys is looking up the inspection report checklist, which I only learned to check after the fact. In the end we'll buy new tires, we'll buy a second key. All these people acting like I just want free ****. We pay our way but this dealer really treated us like we weren't worth their time.


      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      You can be upset, but it's 100% irrational to be upset with Volvo, it leaves open the possibility the the entire complaint is irrational. That's why you are a complainer... you'll blame anyone, even if it isn't their fault, in order for it to not be your fault.
      Hahaha! Alright buddy. You're right, secretly my wife has been tracking her XC60. When she was experiencing some slippage on the track we checked, and sure enough, she'd prematurely worn the tires. We figured we could pull a fast one on the dealer because they're always quick to write blank checks to people.

    20. #53
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      Some customers DO pull fast ones.. I've seen some down right offensive claims made by customers. I really don't think you are one of them, but it's a reality that it happens. How can they know who is who?

      Look at the perspective... tires and key, around $2k... we have a customer who is very unhappy and leaving lots of bad reviews, and we're probably never going to have them as a customer again... should we spend $2k on them?

      Volvo is looking at it as he said she said... you can't prove what was or wasn't done 6 months ago, or what the condition was. They can't just tell a dealership that they have to pay out such claims. Volvo has been increasing it's scrutiny on CPO and the process though, but they can't send out a rep for every car to make sure it's done right. After six months, there simply isn't anything they can be expected to do about such claims, and again, old tires pass so long as they have the tread.
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    21. #54
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      If I owned that Volvo store, I would have made some sort of conciliatory gesture at least. Give him a key and Volvo hat. Or free car washes for a year, or a free alignment check to bring some facts into the discussion, show him how tires wear and explain what can be reasonably expected, review the CPO contract, or...

      Do something to walk toward the middle ground. Look at what Volvo did on the ring-sticking issue. They probably spent millions of dollars on good will, out-of-warranty work. The warranty terms are in BLACK AND WHITE lawyerese with clearly stated limits, yet expensive courtesies (i.e., engines) were handed out. Why? To maintain customer relationships.

      I really hate how people are becoming more polarizing and righteous and unwilling to make the smallest concessions, and I'd hate to see this forum turn into another Fox News comments section.

    22. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      Some customers DO pull fast ones.. I've seen some down right offensive claims made by customers. I really don't think you are one of them, but it's a reality that it happens. How can they know who is who?

      Look at the perspective... tires and key, around $2k... we have a customer who is very unhappy and leaving lots of bad reviews, and we're probably never going to have them as a customer again... should we spend $2k on them?

      Volvo is looking at it as he said she said... you can't prove what was or wasn't done 6 months ago, or what the condition was. They can't just tell a dealership that they have to pay out such claims. Volvo has been increasing it's scrutiny on CPO and the process though, but they can't send out a rep for every car to make sure it's done right. After six months, there simply isn't anything they can be expected to do about such claims, and again, old tires pass so long as they have the tread.
      I didn't ask for 2k. I didn't even ask for them to meet me in the middle.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      If I owned that Volvo store, I would have made some sort of conciliatory gesture at least. Give him a key and Volvo hat. Or free car washes for a year, or a free alignment check to bring some facts into the discussion, show him how tires wear and explain what can be reasonably expected, review the CPO contract, or...

      Do something to walk toward the middle ground. Look at what Volvo did on the ring-sticking issue. They probably spent millions of dollars on good will, out-of-warranty work. The warranty terms are in BLACK AND WHITE lawyerese with clearly stated limits, yet expensive courtesies (i.e., engines) were handed out. Why? To maintain customer relationships.

      I really hate how people are becoming more polarizing and righteous and unwilling to make the smallest concessions, and I'd hate to see this forum turn into another Fox News comments section.
      I really appreciate this perspective. I do understand that some buyers go in ignorant, but I knew what I was getting into with Volvo and the CPO program, and that's why we pursued the purchase of the two we have. The dealership we purchased our first from listed the car as a 2015.5 and it wasn't. When we found out after purchase, they credited us $1k. I would have done business with that dealer again regardless because the process was fantastic and they gave us more than we expected on our trade. After the credit I'd absolutely do business with that dealer again and advise others to but I would avoid the dealer that treated us like cattle during the sale and then can't even give me 25% off a key, or maybe free programming for a key that I was owed at the time of sale.
      Last edited by ryboto; 01-09-2020 at 12:09 PM.

    24. #57
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      Gotta say, I mostly side with Ryboto here. Sounds like an awful dealer experience and that the cumulative effect of poor service is what has led him to this point of irritation. I get that the tire thing is a bit overblown maybe, but it's a symptom of their poor quality control and their unwillingness to address it at all is problematic. But, still, getting 10k out of tires on a used car isn't the worst thing in the world.

      The key thing, though, is what seems really surprising. They should definitely make that up and the fact that they've offered no concessions to somebody who appears to be a loyal Volvo owner is dumb. I can see why Volvo USA can't do much here and don't blame them really, but this dealer is definitely one I would avoid given that it sounds like they have some shady practices.

      When I bought a Tiguan as a used rental car from Hertz, it only came with one key and I made the mistake of trusting a verbal agreement that they'd provide the second key (they had to get it mailed from corporate headquarters). They dealer I bought it from said the key never came after a few weeks and they still upheld their agreement and paid a VW to program a new key for it. I didn't really like the car after a while and found a V60 that I really wanted, but this shows that even a used Hertz dealer is willing to keep their word on a used Tiguan bought for 13k (not CPO). I'd expect a lot more from a Volvo dealer on a nearly 30k CPO vehicle (even if it was 6 months down the line because the buyer was unaware that it should come with 2 keys, the dealer should have known from the get go).
      2013 XC60 T6
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    25. #58
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      All the dealers I've ever bought cars from have a "We owe you this" form that both parties sign. This form helps to document any verbal agreements regarding missing equipment, accessories, whatever. I thought it was commonplace so am surprised this apparently wasn't used in this case. Most times there's nothing but it does to help to resolve those inevitable disagreements down the road as to what was promised.

      One of the first questions I always ask when looking at used cars is if it comes with both key fobs. I could never buy a car with just one key fob.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
      Present: '95 854 T-5R, '06 XC70, '15 XC70 T6, '15.5 XC60 T6, '16 V60 P*

    26. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      All the dealers I've ever bought cars from have a "We owe you this" form that both parties sign. This form helps to document any verbal agreements regarding missing equipment, accessories, whatever. I thought it was commonplace so am surprised this apparently wasn't used in this case. Most times there's nothing but it does to help to resolve those inevitable disagreements down the road as to what was promised.

      One of the first questions I always ask when looking at used cars is if it comes with both key fobs. I could never buy a car with just one key fob.
      Yep, I'll definitely be doing this from now on for sure after reading about this experience. I got lucky with mine before, but it wasn't without jumping through a lot of hoops and keeping on them to actually get it done.
      2013 XC60 T6
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    27. #60
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      All the dealers I've ever bought cars from have a "We owe you this" form that both parties sign. This form helps to document any verbal agreements regarding missing equipment, accessories, whatever. I thought it was commonplace so am surprised this apparently wasn't used in this case. Most times there's nothing but it does to help to resolve those inevitable disagreements down the road as to what was promised.

      One of the first questions I always ask when looking at used cars is if it comes with both key fobs. I could never buy a car with just one key fob.
      I'm sure they signed one... perhaps they weren't given a copy, but I'd bet the selling dealer has one on file. That wouldn't be the point though with the key complaint IMO because while it would have legally absolved them, there is still the standard that they should try to meet. That's a real issue... it just should have been handled right off the bat to avoid the potential of he said/she said. OP didn't know it was a requirement though, and were satisfied with the deal without it prior to knowing the CPO requirements. IMO if that issue was addressed alone, even months after the fact, it may well have been taken care of.. Heck, there is a chance the key is sitting on the key board... keys get lost and turn up. It happens, especially at bigger dealers. But I think the long list of complaints signaled to the dealer that a key fob wasn't going to buy customer satisfaction here though and I'm sure that's why it wasn't done. The right thing to do would be to get the key made anyway, but if you make things personal and give long reviews with several unnecessary complaints, it's not a surprise to me that it wasn't resolved. I also think buying from 3 hours away doesn't help because you can't go in and make friends with anyone. You're just an out of town person who found the car cause it was reduced and priced to move. They probably lost money on the deal anyway and now they have to deal with your review, or deal with your review AND pay for another key.
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    28. #61
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      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      I'm sure they signed one... perhaps they weren't given a copy, but I'd bet the selling dealer has one on file. That wouldn't be the point though with the key complaint IMO because while it would have legally absolved them, there is still the standard that they should try to meet. That's a real issue... it just should have been handled right off the bat to avoid the potential of he said/she said. OP didn't know it was a requirement though, and were satisfied with the deal without it prior to knowing the CPO requirements. IMO if that issue was addressed alone, even months after the fact, it may well have been taken care of.. Heck, there is a chance the key is sitting on the key board... keys get lost and turn up. It happens, especially at bigger dealers. But I think the long list of complaints signaled to the dealer that a key fob wasn't going to buy customer satisfaction here though and I'm sure that's why it wasn't done. The right thing to do would be to get the key made anyway, but if you make things personal and give long reviews with several unnecessary complaints, it's not a surprise to me that it wasn't resolved. I also think buying from 3 hours away doesn't help because you can't go in and make friends with anyone. You're just an out of town person who found the car cause it was reduced and priced to move. They probably lost money on the deal anyway and now they have to deal with your review, or deal with your review AND pay for another key.
      I'd happily amend my review if they took any positive customer service action. They berated us during the registration process, the GM basically hung up on me when I called about the tires(which I understood even at the time wasn't something they'd be obligated to assist with). When I found out about the key I was told I'd have to contact the same GM. He just isn't interested in winning us back. The new Sales Manager sounded like a nice guy, but he couldn't do anything for me. I also have no idea if they even check that review site.

      My perspective is that the dealer made this personal when they couldn't trust us to know our own vehicle registration process. They claimed up and down the process works one way and turns out they were completely wrong. Even after the fact the finance manager wanted to be correct so he had to tell me "you know, we actually could have done everything at the other town clerks office, they have a form that lets us"..which I didn't argue, but is completely false. Even if true, why the hell didn't they do it that way? He had to be right, in the end.

      It's true, I was loyal to the model and trim, not a dealership. They had what we wanted. At the same time, our V60 was purchased at a dealership 2 hours away and I have recommended them to others seeking Volvos and I would have done the same for the dealer in question.

    29. #62
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      My perspective is that the dealer made this personal when they couldn't trust us to know our own vehicle registration process. They claimed up and down the process works one way and turns out they were completely wrong. Even after the fact the finance manager wanted to be correct so he had to tell me "you know, we actually could have done everything at the other town clerks office, they have a form that lets us"..which I didn't argue, but is completely false. Even if true, why the hell didn't they do it that way? He had to be right, in the end.
      I've worked at a few dealers with different processes for out of state transactions. Where I am now we have a 3rd party we use for ours and the fee is only an extra $130 so it's not unreasonable. It varies state by state but I've certainly used them to transfer tags for out of state deals. It is easier to just issue new tags in most cases, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a dealer making up rules to make things easier... It's not always perfect though... I did a deal for a customer who was moving to Florida. We thought there should be tax credit for her trades but we were told no, so we collected the full tax amount. However, once Florida handled their portion they refunded what would have been the credited amount back and we sent her a check. She was super easy to work with and it made the process easy, but I could have understood if she had been upset because we took the time value of her money while the paperwork was settling, however, we couldn't do anything different than we were told. Cash deals are SOOOOO much easier for out of state, I just slap on a temp tag and wish you well and let you handle it all in your own state. I've honestly never dealt with an out of state deal that was financed by the customers own bank. In state, it would be nearly the same as a cash deal. I don't know if I would be responsible for collecting your states sales taxes or not. I could understand they just wanted to control it all to make fixing little issues much easier.
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    30. #63
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      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      I've worked at a few dealers with different processes for out of state transactions. Where I am now we have a 3rd party we use for ours and the fee is only an extra $130 so it's not unreasonable. It varies state by state but I've certainly used them to transfer tags for out of state deals. It is easier to just issue new tags in most cases, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a dealer making up rules to make things easier... It's not always perfect though... I did a deal for a customer who was moving to Florida. We thought there should be tax credit for her trades but we were told no, so we collected the full tax amount. However, once Florida handled their portion they refunded what would have been the credited amount back and we sent her a check. She was super easy to work with and it made the process easy, but I could have understood if she had been upset because we took the time value of her money while the paperwork was settling, however, we couldn't do anything different than we were told. Cash deals are SOOOOO much easier for out of state, I just slap on a temp tag and wish you well and let you handle it all in your own state. I've honestly never dealt with an out of state deal that was financed by the customers own bank. In state, it would be nearly the same as a cash deal. I don't know if I would be responsible for collecting your states sales taxes or not. I could understand they just wanted to control it all to make fixing little issues much easier.
      In NH there's no sales tax and we 'own' our plates. We had 9 months left on the plates so we'd have only had to pay a prorated difference for the difference in value of the vehicle we traded. Instead of letting us use our financing to keep both our names on our registration they made up the claim that the state of CT could fine them for having my name on the vehicle if I wasn't on the loan info. As I said, he said we'd have to sign something to the effect of "we're responsible for any fines". As much as I assured him I knew our process, he said his 3rd party knew our rules and could estimate the registration cost perfectly...but like your case, it estimated around $200 more for a new vehicle registration. Constantly told us they knew better and that it would be easy. Our registration office is open 2 hours per week which we warned them would make things troublesome, but they didn't listen.

      We had a 45 day temp plate and ended up registering just as it expired as that day happened to be on the one day of the week our clerk has hours. Had we been able to register it on our own, we'd have had it registered within 3 days of purchase and a majority of the pain of dealing with that dealer wouldn't have existed.

    31. #64
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      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      In NH there's no sales tax and we 'own' our plates. We had 9 months left on the plates so we'd have only had to pay a prorated difference for the difference in value of the vehicle we traded. Instead of letting us use our financing to keep both our names on our registration they made up the claim that the state of CT could fine them for having my name on the vehicle if I wasn't on the loan info. As I said, he said we'd have to sign something to the effect of "we're responsible for any fines". As much as I assured him I knew our process, he said his 3rd party knew our rules and could estimate the registration cost perfectly...but like your case, it estimated around $200 more for a new vehicle registration. Constantly told us they knew better and that it would be easy. Our registration office is open 2 hours per week which we warned them would make things troublesome, but they didn't listen.

      We had a 45 day temp plate and ended up registering just as it expired as that day happened to be on the one day of the week our clerk has hours. Had we been able to register it on our own, we'd have had it registered within 3 days of purchase and a majority of the pain of dealing with that dealer wouldn't have existed.
      State by state again I'm sure. Generally I can have two people on a loan and only one on the title but not the other way around. Most business loans have an owner cosign for the company but the vehicle is still just registered to the company. But I can't go the other way. Here in PA I think it's because title and deed supersedes anything written in the will. It can get messy in a divorce or separation too. Basically one person can get out of any financial obligation but also control whether or not the car gets sold or traded in to help settle that obligation. They can claim equal ownership. I'm sure there are other things that come up too, but I know it's not something I can do. It's hard to blame them for listening to the title company they pay over what a customer thinks is right. I'd probably have run into the same problem. If I got a loan from a customer in just one name I'd have to register it in just one name. If I could do that on a temp tag for you and when you got back to CT they let you change it up, I couldn't care less, but I couldn't let it leave that way and expect to get funded from a bank. Even more so if it was from a bank we didn't have a relationship with.
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    32. #65
      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      -No, we weren't rushed. We prepped 3 weeks in advance. Had everything ready. All we needed to do was a test drive, visual inspection, and sign paper work. The dealership was sloppy, didn't have anything prepped, and we had to start over. We were pressured, over 4 hours to use their financing and to give up the balance of our registration.
      Sigh.....

      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      Because our sales rep screwed up all of our paperwork and because the dealership wasn't busy, we were pushed immediately to the finance manager that did basically everything and he was the one answering our questions, with incorrect info. The info about CT registration, about finance rates, about our Credit Union financing being a terrible deal, about the extension to the CPO warranty, and about the key was all incorrect and little lies to get is to finalize the sale.
      This is literally the definition of RUSHED. Meaning you were pressured and passed around without time to think...You make my head hurt.

    33. #66
      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      I'm sure they signed one... perhaps they weren't given a copy, but I'd bet the selling dealer has one on file. That wouldn't be the point though with the key complaint IMO because while it would have legally absolved them, there is still the standard that they should try to meet. That's a real issue... it just should have been handled right off the bat to avoid the potential of he said/she said. OP didn't know it was a requirement though, and were satisfied with the deal without it prior to knowing the CPO requirements. IMO if that issue was addressed alone, even months after the fact, it may well have been taken care of.. Heck, there is a chance the key is sitting on the key board... keys get lost and turn up. It happens, especially at bigger dealers. But I think the long list of complaints signaled to the dealer that a key fob wasn't going to buy customer satisfaction here though and I'm sure that's why it wasn't done. The right thing to do would be to get the key made anyway, but if you make things personal and give long reviews with several unnecessary complaints, it's not a surprise to me that it wasn't resolved. I also think buying from 3 hours away doesn't help because you can't go in and make friends with anyone. You're just an out of town person who found the car cause it was reduced and priced to move. They probably lost money on the deal anyway and now they have to deal with your review, or deal with your review AND pay for another key.
      This is the second time we agree. I promise not to make it a habit. OP should have immediately gone in and spoken to the General Manager. Not sit on his hands and stew. Hell, he could STILL GO and speak to the General Manager in hopes of a resultion, but still chooses to bitch moan. Which is why employees at the dealer probably told OP to take a hike, since they're sick of him, and don't feel any obligation to go above and beyond to rectify the sitution.

      It's like going to a fast food restaurant and placing an order, to find out it's made wrong. Instead of notifying the manager and asking for it to be corrected, one goes off on a tangent about the service being slow, the restaurant being dirty, the bathrooms never being cleaned, and the workers being rude. I.E. muddying the waters and pissing off those who might help.

      OP is a lost cause. I've helped LOTS of people on this forum and I feel zero sympathy for the guy...

    34. #67
      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      I've worked at a few dealers with different processes for out of state transactions. Where I am now we have a 3rd party we use for ours and the fee is only an extra $130 so it's not unreasonable. It varies state by state but I've certainly used them to transfer tags for out of state deals. It is easier to just issue new tags in most cases, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a dealer making up rules to make things easier... It's not always perfect though... I did a deal for a customer who was moving to Florida. We thought there should be tax credit for her trades but we were told no, so we collected the full tax amount. However, once Florida handled their portion they refunded what would have been the credited amount back and we sent her a check. She was super easy to work with and it made the process easy, but I could have understood if she had been upset because we took the time value of her money while the paperwork was settling, however, we couldn't do anything different than we were told. Cash deals are SOOOOO much easier for out of state, I just slap on a temp tag and wish you well and let you handle it all in your own state. I've honestly never dealt with an out of state deal that was financed by the customers own bank. In state, it would be nearly the same as a cash deal. I don't know if I would be responsible for collecting your states sales taxes or not. I could understand they just wanted to control it all to make fixing little issues much easier.
      I had similar happen to me. I bought my car out of state, and the dealer collected taxes. Once I got to my local DMV, I was informed I overpaid and got a refund. Forget exact amount maybe $100? Irrelevant. When I was spending $32,000 on a car (price + taxes + title + licensing + shipping), I was happy to get some money back instead of finding out I owed. Matter of perspective.

      I did however get screwed over by the dealership's Finance Manager who lost my payment, and instead of picking up the phone, recalled the title via an overnight mailer, and had me standing in the DMV like a jackass for 4 hours trying to sort out situation. Everyone played blame game at the dealer. Now that did make me mad, and I let dealer know their car would be returning to them. Course, I finally go ahold of dealer General Manager, who apologized profusely and made the situation right. No Complaints about a free 7 yr / 100k + Wear policy as a token of apology.

    35. #68
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      He's not going to go talk to the manager. It's 3 hours away. I'm actually surprised you're so against the OP. He isn't wrong, aside from the tires.

    36. #69
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      He's not going to go talk to the manager. It's 3 hours away. I'm actually surprised you're so against the OP. He isn't wrong, aside from the tires.
      Only legitimate complaint I see is the lack of a 2nd key. Or am I missing something? - He can pick up the phone and call the General Manager if he has zero intentions of driving. Or Email. In my circumstance, I had to email + phone, because I wasn't driving 20 hours to talk to Dealership GM. But face to face cannot be ignored, and does show a level of commitment that you are seriously upset about an issue. None the less OP's choice.

      Everything about being pressured by Finance Department, Tires being unevenly worn 10,000 miles / 6 month later, and lack of a CPO are retrospective bitching.

      I'm sure Volvo Corporate can get him inspection report if dealer refuses. Not sure what he hopes to accomplish, but if it makes him happy, great. It's not like the vehicle was sent out the door with a litany of mechanical problems that were ignored during the CPO inspection. And even then, my car had "issues" upon arrival that clearly demonstrated they hadn't done much of a CPO on mine. I got them fixed and went about my life. I wasn't smiling each and every time I went to the dealer (160 mile round trip) to have issues corrected. Worst being 4 trips to dealer to resolve backup camera randomly failing to engage with errors. I could have lemon law'ed the car, but dealer was making a concerted effort, and treated me well. So I let it go, without ever once asking Volvo or Dealer to compensate me. These fell under I've bought a car, warranty will fix the issues, so such as life.

      I might be a royal pain in the ass (you're allowed to agree), but even I know when to accept an untenable situation. And at best, I'll warn others of my experience. Which OP is doing, but I don't fully agree with why he's doing it here.

      Quote Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
      Because our sales rep screwed up all of our paperwork and because the dealership wasn't busy, we were pushed immediately to the finance manager that did basically everything and he was the one answering our questions, with incorrect info. The info about CT registration, about finance rates, about our Credit Union financing being a terrible deal, about the extension to the CPO warranty, and about the key was all incorrect and little lies to get is to finalize the sale.
      OP was happy with the deal, and then this thread devolves into throwing everything but the kitchen sink of complaints. Some things are easily rectified if you go about the situation right.

      1. Compile a file showing the mistakes so that it's clear and concise problems happened and what went wrong with paperwork
      2. Clearly articulate REAL ISSUES (lack of 2nd key) without writing a soap opera about everything else.

      OP has probably managed to piss off any one who might have extended good will and sympathy. I hope not, but who knows.

      TO OP: Failing to do your homework, and falling victim to used car sales tactics sucks. However, you were free to get outside financing from a bank if you so chose. And any over payment on taxes, title, fees does get refunded by your state. I had this happen. Dealers GUESTIMATE taxes, but they might be off some.
      Last edited by MyVolvoS60; 01-10-2020 at 07:40 PM.

    37. #70
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      I think what I was trying to say at the start, and what MyVolvoS60 is saying a bit more bluntly, is that when you add other issues with the real point of concern it makes things less likely to get resolved. It might make a good forum story or something to tell your friends and family about how horrible a dealership is to you, but when you tell that to the dealer it evaporates your chances of getting a good resolution. So I do hope this thread is a good lesson for many on good and bad problem resolution. Being right doesn't get you the outcome your looking for by itself, or at least not in a timely and friendly manner. I can get mean, I sometimes vent here, but starting out nice is generally a better process, especially when asking for something.

      This is where I do think dealerships make a difference. I don't know Mitchell at all other than this post and their online reviews (which are positive). I know if I delivered a car with just one key and we were losing money we would 100% get a new key for the customer without being asked. I've seen us put new tires or brakes on cars that were bad deals for us because we had used them for demo cars for awhile. I have been in the industry a long time and never had fewer customers come back in with issues than I do here, and I really value that as a sales person. I've had only one customer I'd consider a complainer here. I got accused of NOT offering to sell her back end products... of all things to accuse a salesman off. (And yes, I have a signed sheet showing I offered them to her and she declined). But even good dealers get new folks, or folks just not having a great day and it makes the process go downhill quick. Honest mistakes are made. There is quite a bit of information to try and learn and most of it we do off the cuff. In sales, we should try to get a little better with each transaction. No one has ever offered to trade me jobs, though I do enjoy most aspects of it.
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