Volvo Transmission Fluid Change
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    1. #1
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      Volvo Transmission Fluid Change

      I want to hear opinions on changing the Transmission Fluid. I have a Volvo S60 2012 about to hit 80k miles. I called my local dealer and they don't recommend to change the fluids and they don't do that. Is that true because they say it's "lifetime" fluid. And all fluids eventually get dirt. I want to be able to reach 150k miles and don't want my transmission to die on me. I wouldn't flush it but I would just drain it and then add the amount that comes out. Also seeing that there isn't a dip stick for the fluid in the engine bay, what do you guys recommend?

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    3. #2
      Junior Member msmith's Avatar
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      I would recommend a drain and fill. Even though Volvo says lifetime fluid, I don't buy that. My local dealer suggested I do mine around 160,000 km (100,000 miles), which I am planning on doing.

      I started a thread on my Heater Fan Squeal issues and post number 3 has a link to the guy who ripped apart his dash to replace the blower fan. To the right of the main video are some other videos he did and one is the change the transmission fluid.

      Have a look. It's very informative and seems pretty reasonable as a DIY.
      In the driveway: 2012 S60 T6 AWD | Black/Beechwood | Premium/Climate/Convenience Packages | BLIS | Sunroof | Active Bending Bi-Xenon | iPd Skid Plate | TFT DIM upgrade (mine), ... Former - 2006 S40 2.4i M56
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    4. #3
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      It has been debated here recently. The main line of thinking seems to be if you replace early and often it certainly won't hurt anything. Some argue it will not help either. In my experience, it did improve shift quality (changed at 45k miles). Most seem to agree as well that where it gets a little more risky is if you don't replace the fluid for an extended period (70, 80, 100k miles) you could do more harm than good. The longer you wait to do the first change, the more relevant that concern becomes.

      The logic (common to all torque converter based auto transmissions) is, as the clutches wear the particles of clutch material begin to deposit themselves around the valve body surfaces where fluid flows under pressure. They may have some negative effect on shift performance. Replacing, or especially "power flushing" the fluid will allow those deposits to come loose in big flakes/chunks which can then potentially block smaller passages entirely, resulting in even bigger trans performance issues.

      You're kind of in that grey area where it probably would help, but nobody would be willing to say so in the event that it messed something up.

      As far as fill level, there is a level tube built into the drain plug that allows you to drain out excess fluid to set the correct level once the fluid is in a specified temperature range.

      "VOLVOSWEDEN" on youtube has a good DIY for the TF-80SC trans

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAb9p8Wph-M
      Last edited by budleach; 12-10-2019 at 12:58 PM.

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    6. #4
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      When the topic came up here a couple of years ago maybe I called two Volvo dealers in my area and neither of them would do it. They said it's just not something they do and did not even give me a price.
      I have about 83K miles on my car now. I mentioned the topic to my independent Volvo specialist a few months ago and he was not too enthusiastic about changing it either.
      I'm not disputing any of the facts and opinions presented here on the topic, but, for me the car shifts flawlessly and I will not touch it. I'm not planning on keeping the car more than another year so there's that too.
      As mentioned above, it is a grey area at this mileage.
      2012 S60 T5 Savile Gray/Beachwood

    7. #5
      Itís relatively easy to do yourself if you have a level area and are okay getting on the ground. FCPEuro sells a kit.

      https://youtu.be/EAb9p8Wph-M

      Anecdotally, I have drained fluid at 72k and am now at 85k doing fine.

    8. #6
      Junior Member Tonyfr's Avatar
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      I have a 2013 S60 and my dealer in San Antonio recommended changing the fluid at 50K. I had mine done at that time along with the software reset for the transmission and it shifts smoothly now.
      2013 Volvo S60 T5
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    9. #7
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      i have a 2012 S60, T5. I'm not a believer in lifetime fluids nor am i a believer in power flushing transmissions. I am a believer in complete drain and refills as one can do. I did that on my S60 at around 52,000 and added an additional cooler in the front. I also have vida/dice as that is required in resetting the transmission " counter" and in getting the correct level as the oil has to be within a certain temperature range for that.

    10. #8
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      I should have added...yep, Id change yours if it was my car. No, i wouldn't just replace the tiny amt. i could drain out, i'd do what i did and get it all drained and replaced. And, if i didn't have vida/dice, i wouldn't do it myself.

    11. #9
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      I have a 2017 S60 with the drive e engine. Can anyone tell me what vida/dice equipment i need to reset the transmission counter?

    12. #10
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      i think you're out of luck with 2017's....as far as do-it-yourself.
      I purchased a laptop preloaded with the program only, as the computer needs to be only used for this. Plus, windows 7 only, and other computer limitations. I think after 2015 it has to be done through volvo...

    13. #11
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      FWIW, If you are considering doing it yourself and do not have VIDA/DICE it is possible to at least get the level correct. You can buy a basic bluetooth OBD2 reader and download the free app "Car Scanner" which will allow you to monitor transmission temp (along with tons of other data fields). You would still need to bring the car in to a dealer/indy specialist to get them to reset the counter.

      This is the one I got and it worked for me (2016 3.0 T6).
      https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by jlh3rd View Post
      i think you're out of luck with 2017's....as far as do-it-yourself.
      I purchased a laptop preloaded with the program only, as the computer needs to be only used for this. Plus, windows 7 only, and other computer limitations. I think after 2015 it has to be done through volvo...
      I was curious about this. I think I remember someone saying that if you have a 2016 3.0 T6 (like I do) that the pre internet based VIDA software would still work with it. It would make sense since it is technically the same (older) hardware. Is it just the 2.0 Drive-E based engines (which started in model year 2015) that require the internet based subscription? Can anyone here confirm that they used their laptop based VIDA on a 2016 3.0 T6?

      Sorry, not trying to threadjack, but I would love to get a VIDA/DICE setup if I knew it would work for me.

    15. #13
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      yeah and I don't want to come across as an expert......tech is the expert on here...
      and vida/dice is good for us do-it-yourselfers......heck, you can't even replace the battery without having to reset a module....
      Last edited by jlh3rd; 12-11-2019 at 11:12 AM.

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by jlh3rd View Post
      I should have added...yep, Id change yours if it was my car. No, i wouldn't just replace the tiny amt. i could drain out, i'd do what i did and get it all drained and replaced. And, if i didn't have vida/dice, i wouldn't do it myself.
      Just to understand better, if you removed .xx liter fluid and replaced .xx liter @ambient temp. how does the transmission or software know? Why does transmission counter need to be reset?
      If you take 500cc of fluid from a 1 gal container and replace with 500cc of fluid how does the 1 gal container know?

    17. #15
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      I am also curious if the transmission fluid counter really needs to be reset. I am thinking of purchasing an icarsoft that will tell me the temp of the trans oil so I can set the level correctly but it will not reset the trans counter. However it will reset the battery counter when changing the battery and it will retract the rear calipers when changing brake pads.

    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by GRUENDIG View Post
      Just to understand better, if you removed .xx liter fluid and replaced .xx liter @ambient temp. how does the transmission or software know? Why does transmission counter need to be reset?
      If you take 500cc of fluid from a 1 gal container and replace with 500cc of fluid how does the 1 gal container know?
      What is the purpose of resetting the counter?
      Is it just for record keeping or does the transmission behave differently if it knows there's fresh fluid?
      If just for record keeping then it's not a must from a functionality point of view.
      2012 S60 T5 Savile Gray/Beachwood

    19. #17
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      Can this fluid exchange be done via pump? Extract any amount and then replace said amount? Would this get around the "Temp-Setting-Drain-Plug" service method?
      2012 S60 R-DESIGN AWD T6 - PoleStar / 2004 S40 LSE

    20. #18
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      Fun fact a vehicles lifetime is around 80k miles accounding to most european OEM's. So Yes it is Lifetime fluid, until you run past the calulated milage, then your past the lifetime of the car. Funny how they never tell you that right?

      ATF should be changed every 30k, small price to pay for the second if not the most expensive peice of hardward on the vehicle.
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    21. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by GRUENDIG View Post
      Just to understand better, if you removed .xx liter fluid and replaced .xx liter @ambient temp. how does the transmission or software know? Why does transmission counter need to be reset?
      If you take 500cc of fluid from a 1 gal container and replace with 500cc of fluid how does the 1 gal container know?
      Just to CMA, both transmission fluid removed and transmission fluid to be refilled would be the same temp.

    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Almaz View Post
      What is the purpose of resetting the counter?
      Is it just for record keeping or does the transmission behave differently if it knows there's fresh fluid?
      If just for record keeping then it's not a must from a functionality point of view.
      That is my understanding. It has nothing to do with fluid level.

      My educated guess is, it is some sort of algorithm that mainly tracks mileage, but also things like hard launches, extreme temperature operation time (both cold and hot), and things like gear change request times (made by the TCM/TCU), vs actual shift time. Similar to the algorithm used to determine engine oil change intervals in most modern cars. It is based mostly on mileage, but there are modifiers to account for things like hard driving, abuse, and extreme conditions. I would think the purpose in the case of the trans is to help monitor the life of the fluid and whether or not the trans is performing as expected so it can then modify it's behavior accordingly.

      The TCM/TCU would adapt, just like the ECM/ECU would adjust things like fuel trim tables and ignition timing based on actual data. If you replace a bad coil/plug/injector/O2 sensor, it would make sense to clear the ECM/ECU so it can re-calibrate to the new hardware. Logic would indicate that you would also want to reset the TCM/TCU to allow it to re-calibrate to how the trans reacts with the new fluid.
      Last edited by budleach; 12-12-2019 at 12:17 PM.

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by budleach View Post
      That is my understanding. It has nothing to do with fluid level.

      My educated guess is, it is some sort of algorithm that mainly tracks mileage, but also things like hard launches, extreme temperature operation time (both cold and hot), and things like gear change request times (made by the TCM/TCU), vs actual shift time. Similar to the algorithm used to determine engine oil change intervals in most modern cars. It is based mostly on mileage, but there are modifiers to account for things like hard driving, abuse, and extreme conditions. I would think the purpose in the case of the trans is to help monitor the life of the fluid and whether or not the trans is performing as expected so it can then modify it's behavior accordingly.

      The TCM/TCU would adapt, just like the ECM/ECU would adjust things like fuel trim tables and ignition timing based on actual data. If you replace a bad coil/plug/injector/O2 sensor, it would make sense to clear the ECM/ECU so it can re-calibrate to the new hardware. Logic would indicate that you would also want to reset the TCM/TCU to allow it to re-calibrate to how the trans reacts with the new fluid.
      All correct. The counter simply tracks how many times the trans has been hot, etc. Iíve flushed the transmission in our XC90 twice now in the 100k weíve had it, and have never reset the counter as I donít have VIDA. Works flawlessly, counter isnít a huge deal.

      Regarding the adaptive reset, when I was a tech, they never wanted those to be reset unless a hard part in the trans was changed. As you said, itíll adapt on itís own, and a hard reset can actually do more harm than good.

      Joe
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    24. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by jschaefer7406 View Post
      All correct. The counter simply tracks how many times the trans has been hot, etc. Iíve flushed the transmission in our XC90 twice now in the 100k weíve had it, and have never reset the counter as I donít have VIDA. Works flawlessly, counter isnít a huge deal.

      Joe
      +1

      I've never reset the counter on any of my P2's.
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      Quote Originally Posted by 2wolf39 View Post
      Can this fluid exchange be done via pump? Extract any amount and then replace said amount? Would this get around the "Temp-Setting-Drain-Plug" service method?
      In theory, yes that would work.

      But what's to say your trans currently has the correct level? Just playing devil's advocate. I will agree that, if there are no visible signs of leakage, and the trans is working reasonably well currently, it is probably safe to assume the current level is pretty close to where it needs to be.

      My point is, for a $10 dongle and a free app you can set the level exactly where it needs to be. For me, that extra peace of mind is worth $10 and 15 minutes of my time.

    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by jschaefer7406 View Post
      Iíve flushed the transmission in our XC90 twice now in the 100k weíve had it, and have never reset the counter as I donít have VIDA. Works flawlessly, counter isnít a huge deal.

      As you said, itíll adapt on itís own, and a hard reset can actually do more harm than good.

      Joe
      I tend to agree with you.

      The whole "if you can't clear the counter, you are better off not changing the fluid at all" argument sounds illogical to me.

      I doubt never clearing the counter would lead to transmission behavior adapting so far that it would damage itself. But I do believe that not changing the fluid at all will significantly reduce the usable life of the trans... or if you want to phrase it more positively, regularly changing the transmission fluid will significantly extend the transmission's usable life beyond the manufacturer's expectations.

      My father's 2004 S60 did something like 250k miles and it was still running and shifting great when he sold it. He did regular trans fluid services. I doubt it would have lasted that long on the original fluid. Thing is, car companies don't really want their cars to last that long, they make money when you buy a new car, especially if you trade in the old one.

    27. #25
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      I'm a do-it-yourselfer. That doesn't mean I ignore manufacturers manuals, and correct specifications. If I do a home remodeling or something like a deck or electrical, I follow code. If a new person on here who may not know all the facts, asks a how to question, i'm gonna be as honest as i can...
      I don't take every comment on the internet as gospel. It is your car ,do as you please.
      I changed my fluid myself using the method i've used for decades by utilizing the tyranny's own pump. There is no dipstick and fluid level needs to be correct, plus or minus, but requires a certain temp. range and the car level. So vida/ dice or a scanner will work for that.
      The " counter" from what i have tried to learn from good techs on here , needs to be reset because the transmission's brain adjusts hydraulic pressure based on what new fluid compared to old fluid needs. ( probably in addition to what else has been said in the post) I certainly can't argue with the " Ive never reset mine and i've gone a million miles"....It's your car....
      I tend to go with engineers, designers and the manual........

    28. #26
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      For your consideration here are excerpts from the collective wisdom of Wikipedia about what I believe is the transmission in the 2011-2018 S60/V60 and variants:

      The AWTF-80 SC is based on the ZF 6HP gearbox.

      The Aisin AWTF-80 SC series is a 6-speed automatic transmission designed for use in transverse engine applications.....

      It is a sealed for life unit, using proprietary AW-1 transmission fluid which is labelled as being maintenance free.

      LINK: Source page - Aisin AWTF-80SC
      2012 S60 T5

    29. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Captain Tom View Post
      For your consideration here are excerpts from the collective wisdom of Wikipedia about what I believe is the transmission in the 2011-2018 S60/V60 and variants:

      The AWTF-80 SC is based on the ZF 6HP gearbox.

      The Aisin AWTF-80 SC series is a 6-speed automatic transmission designed for use in transverse engine applications.....

      It is a sealed for life unit, using proprietary AW-1 transmission fluid which is labelled as being maintenance free.

      LINK: Source page - Aisin AWTF-80SC
      Yeah, it's BS. Been through 2 AW55's an 2 TF80's, you NEED to change fluid, especially if you don't have an updated VB (Not sure the exact date when they did). Wiki never takes into account defects and always goes with standard automotive talking points.
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    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by jlh3rd View Post
      The " counter" from what i have tried to learn from good techs on here , needs to be reset because the transmission's brain adjusts hydraulic pressure based on what new fluid compared to old fluid needs. ( probably in addition to what else has been said in the post) I certainly can't argue with the " Ive never reset mine and i've gone a million miles"....It's your car....
      I tend to go with engineers, designers and the manual........
      You are right to a point, you do need to reset the counter if you have a defective VB that is gummed up. If you have a smooth running VB/Updated I don't think it's an issue. That said, it depends on the flush your doing, power flush? I'd have them re-adapt the transmission. If it's a drain an fill style, I wouldn't bother.

      Great vid.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdF5DnGwz7E
      Last edited by The Driver; 12-12-2019 at 07:17 PM.
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    31. #29
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      When I had our S60 and V60CC in for service at the dealer at 45K miles I opted to have the transmission oil changed. As one of the above posters opined, the transmission is the second most expensive component in a car after the engine. Cheap insurance. I changed the trans fluid in our Saab 9-5s at home but they had transmission oil dip sticks that made it easy to check my work.
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    32. #30
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      FYI, word of caution. We had our XC90 trans oil replaced at 90,000km by the transfusion method by a Volvo indie, after this the trans now shudders at 1500rpm under light throttle.
      Last edited by thezoneS60; 12-12-2019 at 08:54 PM.
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    33. #31
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      I beleive that's why our dealer recommended do it early (45K) vice late. Of course 90,000km is pretty close to 45,000 miles so who knows.
      Last edited by AeroDan; 12-12-2019 at 08:29 PM.
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    34. #32
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      I think changing the transmission oil is a good thing especially if you have been doing it early. I had an old S70 GLT, I had changed my transmission oil with only a single drain and refill after 30k miles and yearly after that. The car ran for 19 yrs more until I sold it.

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      All the guys in the XC90 forum recommend just drain and fill method, all the Volvo dealers and Indies recommend the transfusion method. Who the hell do you believe?
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    36. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by thezoneS60 View Post
      All the guys in the XC90 forum recommend just drain and fill method, all the Volvo dealers and Indies recommend the transfusion method. Who the hell do you believe?
      Depends on the fluid, if it's burnt (Brown/black) then I'd stay away from a flush, a drain an fill is more gentle and doesn't break loose particulates that will damage (Gunk up) the solenoids which cause shift flares like your experiencing in your XC. Do a couple of drain an fills and I'm sure your shift flaring will go away.
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      Does anybody subscribe to Mike Miller who has a column on BMW maintenance?

      https://www.dslreports.com/r0/downlo...e%20v03.13.pdf

      I know it's BMW but I would imagine that a lot of his recommendations could be applicable to Volvo maintenance. He recommends ATF fluid changes at 30-60k miles for modern BMW's.
      I called my local Volvo dealership and they didn't recommend any ATF drain/flush since it's a "sealed unit" and it is a "lifetime" fluid. However, if you tow my manual says to check ATF fluid at 50,000 mile increments and to change it. Manual says to not even check for normal use unless there is a leak.

      One independent volvo dealership says to not change anything, another says to flush, and a third one says that they will drain every 50k miles or so for 255 for OEM ATF.

      I'm thinking I may drain at 50k miles and then at 90k and 130k or so. If it's 765 bucks I'm fine with paying that; it's more that I want it to last 150k miles or so.

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