SOLD: 2011 XC90 V8 with only 62K mi at Orloff in Chicago - Caveat Emptor
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    1. #1
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      SOLD: 2011 XC90 V8 with only 62K mi at Orloff in Chicago - Caveat Emptor

      This 2011 XC90 V8 was traded this week at Orloff Volvo in Chicago - https://www.orloff.com/used/Volvo/20...f0278c1411.htm .... only 62K mi and 1 owner. I chased it for 3 days. The car shows extremely well in pictures. I had high hopes ...

      Today the report came back from their shop (based on a check list I provided) ... the car needs $13K+ worth of work! Dealer now claims that a wholesaler is taking it for $10K ... watch for VIN YV4852CT4B1586458 at a local dealer in the near future.



      Last edited by PAX5; 12-18-2019 at 12:10 PM.
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

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    3. #2
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      What all does it need ?

    4. #3
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      Probably leaking oil. What was the list you provided and what did it need?

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    6. #4
      Junior Member RYJS60's Avatar
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      Maybe trans, I've heard the V8 have a weak trans.

    7. #5
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      But it looks so pretty!
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
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    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Thommykent View Post
      What all does it need ?
      Nothing out of the ordinary ... all the usual problems with these V8's. By far the bulk of the dealer's repair estimate is labor.

      My point is that even this Volvo dealer did not catch any of these problems when they took it in trade. And they had sold and serviced this car from day 1! They accepted the trade based on the appearance and decided that it should list for $19,995. Now they won't retail it anymore. None of the problems were known until I insisted on having it checked by their mechanic, using my list. They will not disclose these problems to the wholesaler either. He's thinking he's getting a bargain at $10K, clean it up, put on a new set of tires and put it on his lot for $18,000 or so ... That's why I am paying it forward by listing the VIN.

      BTW, the driver's door is missing the VIN label. Missing VIN labels 9/10 means an accident and/or repair/repaint (note "cosmetic damage" to drivers door) ... On the door side the SRS system can be affected. They won't allow a paint thickness measurement ... Carfax is clean with no accidents.

      * One item that was not evaluated properly IMO was slippage of the Angle Gear/Angle Gear Sleeve. Being a cold climate car with a V8, the angle gear cold easily be on it's last leg ... another $4,000+ repair.


      Last edited by PAX5; 12-15-2019 at 09:17 PM.
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by RYJS60 View Post
      Maybe trans, I've heard the V8 have a weak trans.
      Interesting. Did all years of the V8 have a weak transmission? Do you know specifically what aspect(s) of the V8 transmission was weak?
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    10. #8
      Global Moderator R-Pow3R3d's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by sprnova View Post
      Interesting. Did all years of the V8 have a weak transmission? Do you know specifically what aspect(s) of the V8 transmission was weak?
      "Weak Trans" is a stretch of the truth. 06 - 07 had a valve body issue that I documented in the link in my signature. Later years have sometimes shown similar issues, but it doesn't appear to be on the same scale as the known issue. There's some really good "how to buy a V8 XC90" links on this forum. I would go through those.
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    11. #9
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      Well if the engine is out for the timing cover reseal, the power steering pump would be parts only, no additional labor. Same with the axle and oil change. Labor for the control arms and trans pan would be reduced as well.
      Last edited by Tech; 12-13-2019 at 10:46 PM.

    12. #10
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      I don't get the automatic pan leaking part... is there a pan somewhere?
      2011 XC90 B8444S R-Design 614 120k km RHD

    13. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by kiwiV8 View Post
      I don't get the automatic pan leaking part... is there a pan somewhere?
      I guess it's more of a cover but some may call it a pan.

    14. #12
      Something seems fishy... that’s such a low mileage for all of these issues (at least for the leaks).
      2010 XC90 V8 - 113k miles
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    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I guess it's more of a cover but some may call it a pan.
      What part of the transmission is that? Does the tranny have to come out and taken apart?

      Can you show in a picture?
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    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Masscomguru View Post
      Something seems fishy... that’s such a low mileage for all of these issues (at least for the leaks).
      I agree ...

      I have a copy of every single service record: same dealer, same tech who serviced it for 60K miles. Never a mention of oil leaks, never a mention of axle clicking ... Something doesn't add up, or does it?
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    17. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I guess it's more of a cover but some may call it a pan.
      What part of the transmission is that? Does the tranny have to come out and taken apart?

      Can you show in a picture?
      Can't say I remember having done one on a V8, but the trans shouldn't have to come out. The subframe probably needs to be lowered. I'll see if I can find a picture.

      Quote Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Masscomguru View Post
      Something seems fishy... that’s such a low mileage for all of these issues (at least for the leaks).
      I agree ...

      I have a copy of every single service record: same dealer, same tech who serviced it for 60K miles. Never a mention of oil leaks, never a mention of axle clicking ... Something doesn't add up, or does it?
      You have a copy of the service records or recommended repairs? Service records would show only what work was done. If the customer was aware of the oil leak or other issues but declined the repairs, that wouldn't show up in the service records.

      Additionally, that report doesn't mention how badly the engine is leaking. I don't know what your list was that you sent them, but if I got a list from someone looking to buy from out of state, I'm damn sure going to go over the car with a fine tooth comb to avoid them coming out and finding something and then being pissed they came out to look at a car that has an issue I should have found. Sometimes those V8s leak A LOT. Sometimes they just seep around the valve covers and timing cover. But if you sent a list asking about oil leaks then if I'm looking at the car, I'm telling you about any oil leak. Even if it is small and I would normally just tell the customer to monitor it for a while.

    18. #16
      Junior Member Orange's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Additionally, that report doesn't mention how badly the engine is leaking. I don't know what your list was that you sent them, but if I got a list from someone looking to buy from out of state, I'm damn sure going to go over the car with a fine tooth comb to avoid them coming out and finding something and then being pissed they came out to look at a car that has an issue I should have found. Sometimes those V8s leak A LOT. Sometimes they just seep around the valve covers and timing cover. But if you sent a list asking about oil leaks then if I'm looking at the car, I'm telling you about any oil leak. Even if it is small and I would normally just tell the customer to monitor it for a while.

      Without seeing the vehicle in person, I can only guess, but I have to agree with Tech here above. That massive repair estimate looks pretty much like one from those places that love to skim their customers. They see a small leak: need to replace this and that. Control arms at $1200 ?? There is your answer: parts are only $400 for both genuine at Fcp, so labor is $800 ?? You found right away what kind of garage got that estimate. Just search on local.google.com and see what customers have to say about it.

    19. #17
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      Shop labor on quotes for trade-ins are always inflated... especially if the work is already done. $154 for a fuel filter? This place is a Jag and Land Rover dealer as well. Fleecing customers is SOP with these marques.

      I would second the thought that the PO probably was advised about these problems and chose not to perform them. Big repair bills are why cars are for sale in the first place.

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    20. #18
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      Nothing fishy about the fuel filter. About $60 for the part and a half hour labor. I'd bet they are well above $150/hr in Chicago.

      Control arms list for over $200 each. Closer to $340. Dealers don't buy from FCP. Plus hardware and 2 hours labor. $1200 is still high, but not by as much as you think. Might also include ball joints.
      Last edited by Tech; 12-14-2019 at 10:08 AM.

    21. #19
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      But, $787 to replace the trailer wiring harness?
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    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by John C View Post
      But, $787 to replace the trailer wiring harness?
      I don't know what they list for offhand- not nearly as common as the other repairs.

    23. #21
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      Agree with all statements above about repairs and cost of parts (this dealer hourly rates ar $188/hr!. Engine pull is quoted at 25 hrs!)

      IMO, all mechanical repairs and oil leaks can be done for under $5K, depending on whether you do all of the following while the engine is out: Serp belt and pulleys, alternator, water pump, power steering pump, valve cover gaskets and injector related rebuilds, transmission pan reseal(?), subframe bushings, lower control arms, ball joints, engine mounts, angle gear sleeve etc.

      The BIG unknown is the fact that there is evidence of some kind of collision and/or accident. Dealer will not permit door inspection and or paint thickness measurement. They rely on the Carfax. They say it's clean. We all know how information ends up in Carfax reports, right?

      So if you start with a purchase price of $10K, do all the mechanical repairs yourself for about $5K, you have a car that is at or near the KBB, NADA and Blackbook average high retail.

      But you also still have a car that might have been in an accident with SRS not working ... hence Caveat Emptor.

      The wholesale buyer will not do these repairs. It will be listed as a low mileage, one owner and be sold to to someone who doesn't know or doesn't ask the right questions.

      I'm trying to be pro-active to forum members who might be interested in this car.

      This is an excellent candidate for an above average DIYer who wants to end up with the last year of the XC90 V8, loaded and with low miles.

      For me, this makes an excellent parts car ... lol.
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    24. #22
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      25 hours is a lot for resealing the engine.

      The timing cover pays about 10 hours. Same for the upper oil pan. But doing them together while the engine is out should save labor. The tech might have added cushion in the time to account for rust (low mileage in Chicago has to be rusty), but still, that's a lot.

      Who said anything about the SRS not working? Is the SRS light on?

    25. #23
      Junior Member Orange's Avatar
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      To me the driver's door does indeed have a different paint shade compared with the rear one - focus at the line between the doors. It may be only the room light, but I'm sure a trained eye will see any difference standing a few feet back. Compare with the pass side which appears to have uniform shade. Might indicate indeed the driver's door was repaint - usually not a big crash, perhaps a dent or scratch fixed at a small garage. You should see the paint edge at areas like at the front of the door (usually those places don't remove the door for painting it)
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      Last edited by Orange; 12-14-2019 at 03:25 PM.

    26. #24
      Control arm bushings from my estimate last week, at a NJ Volvo dealer. Both sides, 4 hrs labor @145/hr plus $160.32 parts. Total $740.32. There is no need to replace the entire control arm. It's easier for DIYers to do that, plus we tend to "upgrade". I'd also want to know more about that $1700 power steering pump. Is it just wetness like someone overfilled it, or an observed leak.

      I had a dealer do a PPI on a 10+ year old, $2k subaru I bought. He came back with a list 3 pages long and $5500. $750 to replace brake lights when it was the pedal switch. I guess they assume one out of every 100 is going to just pay.

    27. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orange View Post
      To me the driver's door does indeed have a different paint shade compared with the rear one - focus at the line between the doors. It may be only the room light, but I'm sure a trained eye will see any difference standing a few feet back. Compare with the pass side which appears to have uniform shade. Might indicate indeed the driver's door was repainted - usually not a big crash, perhaps a dent or scratch fixed at a small garage. You should see the paint edge at areas like at the front of the door (usually those places don't remove the door for painting it)
      A repaint wouldn't bother me terribly ... but the fact that it is missing the VIN sticker ON THE INSIDE makes me question what could've happened. How badly could this door have been damaged for it to warrant replacement?

      These sticker don't just peel off. To me that means that the entire door was replaced (Volvo does not permit replacing VIN stickers on replacement sheet metal. The authentic Volvo replacement panels that I have seen all have R-DOT stamped on them ... this one doesn't.)

      EDIT: this door has definitely been resprayed or replaced and painted. The two rivets on the bottom should be black and not silver painted.



      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    28. #26
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      If that's really what's bothering you, then that is pretty minor. Any good sized dent would require door replacement. Not sure how that equates to the SRS system not working.

    29. #27
      Global Moderator R-Pow3R3d's Avatar
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      My estimate would be that the lack of both VIN sticker and R-DOT labeling, as well as the painted rivets, indicates the door was resprayed. In some ways, perhaps that says the damage was somewhat limited (if it didn't require replacement), but at the same time, it's an unknown. The paint meter would likely confirm respray suspicions.
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    30. #28
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      I agree, I'm sure the door was resprayed or replaced. But so what? It's a 9 year old used car. It doesn't mean the SRS system isn't working.

    31. #29
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      Tech,

      Given what you know about this car, would you buy this car?

      If yes, what would be a price you are willing to pay?
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    32. #30
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      I'd really want to know the severity of the oil leak. Like I said, it could be minor. But if a sales guy comes to me to inspect a car for an out of state customer that provided his own list of inspection items, I'm certainly noting anything. Even if it is minor and I would normally just tell the owner to keep an eye on it.

      I see you edited one of your posts to say they did not evaluate "slippage" of the angle gear sleeve. Was that on your list? How exactly do you want them to check that?
      Last edited by Tech; 12-15-2019 at 08:53 PM.

    33. #31
      Quote Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
      Tech,

      Given what you know about this car, would you buy this car?

      If yes, what would be a price you are willing to pay?
      Neither dealer's numbers give an honest valuation of the car. Without seeing it in person you can't make a decision either way. Personally, I'd want a volvo tech, either dealer or independent, to look it over. If you want to do the quick and dirty, get a quote for an extended warranty and knock that price off the asking price.

    34. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      ...
      I see you edited one of your posts to say they did not evaluate "slippage" of the angle gear sleeve. Was that on your list? How exactly do you want them to check that?
      I had it on the list. They did evaluate it. Just don't know if my test was adequate ...

      I asked to "inspect and verify that there was no slippage of the angle gear output flange and/or the sleeve"

      Now I know that this is impossible to observe any wear visually, so I called and told them to put the car on a lift, run the engine, and run it through the gears manually at idle and at 1,500 rpm, while checking to see if the rear wheels were turning. Then try to stop rear wheels gently with the emergency brake. Doing this apparently stalled the engine. Of course, this by no means is a fool proof test, because the angle gear sleeve could be partially engaging, or only some of the output splines may be worn ...

      Back to my original question: what's the price you'd pay?
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by The_Vermonster View Post
      ... Personally, I'd want a volvo tech, either dealer or independent, to look it over. If you want to do the quick and dirty, get a quote for an extended warranty and knock that price off the asking price.
      The car was evaluated by a Volvo tech with 18 years of experience.
      2009 XC90 V8 R-Design

    36. #34
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      Without knowing the severity of the leak, I don't know what I would pay, if I wanted an XC90 V8.

      I doubt they did that "test", I sure wouldn't. What happens if the parking brake shoes are coming apart and get stuck and tear up the cable and/or spindle? All for a "test" provided by someone who isn't buying the car.

      I also don't think that would stall the engine.

    37. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      I agree, I'm sure the door was resprayed or replaced. But so what? It's a 9 year old used car. It doesn't mean the SRS system isn't working.
      The "so what" is the unknown nature of the damage. It may have just been an innocent dent or it may have been a serious impact. You might find there was also paint work in other sections that aren't as easily identifiable as those with VIN tags. You can't be sure it wasn't more severe, so you can't assume it was nothing.

      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Without knowing the severity of the leak, I don't know what I would pay, if I wanted an XC90 V8.

      I doubt they did that "test", I sure wouldn't. What happens if the parking brake shoes are coming apart and get stuck and tear up the cable and/or spindle? All for a "test" provided by someone who isn't buying the car.

      I also don't think that would stall the engine.
      Agreed. I'm not sure that would stall the engine. If you slammed the brakes at 1500 rpm, would your car stall out? I hope not.
      2004 V70R MT TiGray/Nordkap - Replica 18" Pegs - Handbrake Mod
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