Why So Little Interest Here in Volvo/Polestar BEVs?
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    1. #1
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      Why So Little Interest Here in Volvo/Polestar BEVs?

      I am disappointed at how little activity there is here at Swedespeed regarding the Polestar 2, which is coming out for sale in 2020 -- along with the XC40 BEV under the Volvo logo. Over at Rennlist (the largest Porsche forum), there is a whole section devoted to the BEV Porsches (mainly Taycan so far, which is just starting to land at dealerships in the USA now), with 324 separate threads currently under BEVs there, with over 12k posts to those BEV threads. Here, there's not even a separate forum section to the Polestar 2 -- it's only discussed here on a single thread under "Polestar", which mainly refers to Volvo ICEVs (and a little to Volvo PHEVs). I think that the Polestar 2 is mentioned a lot more often at Rennlist than it is at Swedespeed.
      The Taycan even has two separate Taycan forums outside of Rennlist now, with growing numbers every day. There is a new Polestar2.com forum with not much so far, and there's a "Polestar Forum" that again seems mostly devoted to Volvo Polestars (i.e., not BEVs).

      I hope that this changes soon, because the Polestar 2 and Polestar 3 look to be excellent vehicles. Why are Porsche owners so interested in BEVs, while Volvo owners seem not to be? Both companies have very publicly discussed their movement toward electrification, and they're both on a similar path in terms of the PHEVs already in play and their first BEVs coming out within a year of each other now. Volvo is a larger company that sells vehicles whose average purchase price is well below that of Porsche. It doesn't bode well for Volvo if there's so little interest in their forthcoming BEVs amongst current Volvo owners. Over at Rennlist, a fairly large percentage of Porsche owners seem interested (and many eager) at the prospects of buying a BEV Porsche -- and many of them already own other BEVs (from the Leaf to the Bolt to the e-tron to all the Tesla models). What's different here?

      I see that a new Mustang Mach-E forum was set up a month or two ago, and there's a fair amount of activity/discussion there. I, for one, am eagerly following all the new BEV models. I won't buy a Ford, but the Mach-E looks interesting. I was able to see a Taycan today at a dealership for the first time, and it's very amazing. I am looking forward to seeing the first Polestar 2, and I hope to be among the first to test-drive it in the US when it hits dealerships here. I've test-driven a couple of BEVs to date (Tesla Model S; Jaguar I-Pace) and have ridden in a Model 3 -- all very neat, but not what I am looking for in a BEV. (For context, I have not yet taken the plunge to buy a BEV, but I bought a PHEV last year, and we'll be buying a RAV4 Prime PHEV this coming summer when it comes out for my wife. Once you get into plugin electric vehicles, it's really hard to go back to non-plugins. We have bought our last ICE-only vehicle, I'm sure. We'll probably wait another couple years before getting our first BEV, though -- which will be mainly used for local driving, as we're not ready to brave the public-charging infrastructure in its current weak state. But plugins are superb for local driving.)
      Last edited by cometguy; 12-30-2019 at 01:20 AM.

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    3. #2
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      I think Volvo drivers are more on the practical side, and don't like the idea of charging for 1hr on long trip. I drive a T8 and am not much fun of BEV.

      And Volvo or Polestar 2 doesn't create much news by using big claims like fast numbers. They are great beautiful cars but not market disrupting. People will appreciate it more after seeing it.

      And whether or not a sub forum will be opened here for Polestar brand is still an open question for the forum admin. There is some discussion about XC40 EV in XC40 sub forum but not much info. Polestar 2 was discussed in News and Rumors subforum. When they are shipped late 2020 there will be more interests. And showroom of Polestar is still yet to come in USA.

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    4. #3
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      Iíd talk about the Polestar 2 if there were a place to do so. Iíve looked for forums. Itís a bit confusing since Polestar mostly refers to tunes.

      Personally Iím quite excited. As good as Teslas are I just canít get into them as far as styling goes and I think both the Polestar 2 and XC40 are beautiful vehicles.

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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      I think Volvo drivers are more on the practical side, and don't like the idea of charging for 1hr on long trip. I drive a T8 and am not much fun of BEV.

      And Volvo or Polestar 2 doesn't create much news by using big claims like fast numbers. They are great beautiful cars but not market disrupting. People will appreciate it more after seeing it.

      And whether or not a sub forum will be opened here for Polestar brand is still an open question for the forum admin. There is some discussion about XC40 EV in XC40 sub forum but not much info. Polestar 2 was discussed in News and Rumors subforum. When they are shipped late 2020 there will be more interests. And showroom of Polestar is still yet to come in USA.

      Fusion ∑ Red ∑ T8 ∑ XC60
      Yes, I know that there will be more interest once the Polestar 2 and XC40 BEVs are actually available to test-drive and buy. But that doesn't explain why the Mach-E and Taycan online forums are getting a lot of discussion, but there's no similar level at Volvo/Polestar forums. I don't buy that it's because "Volvo drivers are more on the practical side"; current Volvos (especially since the change to Thor-hammer-headlights) are luxury vehicles whose average price is well above the "practical" average price of a new car sold in the USA today. I presume that you are referring to cargo space when you say "practical"; the range is not all that "practical" in the current slew of Volvos because their gas tanks are so small and their engines don't get the best mileage -- a big reason why I do not own a Thor's-hammer-headlight Volvo right now. One can easily argue that a BEV with 200-250 miles of range is more practical by far for local commuting than is an ICE-only vehicle; you don't have to ever waste time going to a gas station (which for me is a 20-minute event because my gas stations are not on my route between home and work, for example -- but even if it were on the way, I'd be spending way more time at gas stations than I want to), and you have a "full tank" every morning when you start out if you can plug in at home.

      I agree that Volvo/Polestar does not have the best public-news face to the world; they do not know how to get their products "out there" for the world to take notice of. But most people on this forum seem to be aware that Volvo is electrifying its fleet, even if they are unaware that Polestar 2 and XC40 BEVs are coming out within the next year. I could argue that if Volvo drivers are really as "practical" as you claim, that they would be very eagerly following the BEV developments (at least many more than seem to be). Over at the Mach-E forum, I see that many drivers that you might call "practical" (from the list of cars that they own, which is shown prominently there for each posting) are eagerly discussing BEVs, even though most of them do not currently own one, either. And the Mach-E is not out yet either -- probably won't be until a year from now, either. Lots of the Mach-E forum participants own Ford pickup trucks and/or Ford Mustangs and/or Ford sedans now, but there are also a large number of people who do not own a Ford now and do not own a BEV now (like myself). There's just a lot of interest.

      Does it mean that Volvo owners aren't as "into" driving as Ford drivers are? I know that Porsche owners are at the top of the "I love to drive" list, and that may be why so many Porsche owners also drive BEVs -- because of their amazing low-speed torque. But I'm still surprised that there aren't more "practical" Volvo owners who think that BEVs are the practical future, and that this "future" is already here to a large degree. I think that the automakers are missing the boat by not saying how public charging isn't that important -- because it's not, but yet it seems to be a huge reason why people are "afraid" of BEVs (and range anxiety is inter-related to the lack of public-charging infrastructure). Most people I know (both personally and via online forums) who own a BEV do 99% of their charging at home and 99% of their driving within a full charge (roundtrip) of home; they just use another car with an ICE for long-distance trips, to avoid public-charging hassles (though I note that there are a minority of BEV owners who are not afraid to use public chargers, and do so regularly). And they love their BEV cars. What's amazing to me is the number of long-time Porsche owners who are dropping their ICE Porsches for BEVs now; that should speak volumes.
      Last edited by cometguy; 12-30-2019 at 12:36 PM.

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      Fewer people know about Volvo, even fewer about Polestar, than Mustang, Ford, Porsche, or Tesla. Not every brand is equal in terms of popularity.

      Volvo owners also are not so active on forums. How many Volvo shoppers know about this website?

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      I am excited for the battery vehicles to start showing up, im especially curious in the relationship between polestar and volvo cars. as a volvo dealership employee i get mixed reactions from other employees and customers ranging from the enthuastic volvo customer who has two orders on the polestar 2 to the customer who sees polestar as a cheap chinese company which isnt volvo. curious when there is a problem where can you take it? they have made a big deal out of polestar being its own company, and made it clear they will not be opening dealerships or even leveraging the polestar volvo dealer network currently, should be interesting. I think the car will be a hit if they can deliver them in a timely manor. i just want to know when i can get a polestar 1 erad to swap into a s60t8. but polestar 1 does not show in vida, too bad

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      I think the higher ups that decided to make Polestar a stand alone brand with some cars missed an opportunity. Since the distribution for this car will be extremely limited, why get excited about something most folks won't be able to have or see in their region? It doesn't even promote the brand this forum is dedicated to.

      I think the XC40 BEV will get more conversation when it's here. I'm very excited for electric vehicles personally, but I stopped caring about concepts when I was a teenager.
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    10. #8
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      Why So Little Interest Here in Volvo/Polestar BEVs?

      Quote Originally Posted by brich999 View Post
      I am excited for the battery vehicles to start showing up, im especially curious in the relationship between polestar and volvo cars. as a volvo dealership employee i get mixed reactions from other employees and customers ranging from the enthuastic volvo customer who has two orders on the polestar 2 to the customer who sees polestar as a cheap chinese company which isnt volvo. curious when there is a problem where can you take it? they have made a big deal out of polestar being its own company, and made it clear they will not be opening dealerships or even leveraging the polestar volvo dealer network currently, should be interesting. I think the car will be a hit if they can deliver them in a timely manor. i just want to know when i can get a polestar 1 erad to swap into a s60t8. but polestar 1 does not show in vida, too bad
      I think the issue around China is interesting. For decades, Chinese made stuff has often been very cheap and unreliable, however, itís not like they are incapable of making good products with the right investment. If we are honest, some of the worlds best manufacturing is in China. You can get a $100 smartphone that is slow and falls apart in a week, or the highest end, state of the art Apple iPhone, all made in China. It has more to do with the company and their manufacturing processes than the country theyíre in.

      Some people are against buying Chinese cars from an ideological/political perspective, and I wonít get into that, but I think itís a bit of antiquated thinking to assume Chinese manufacturing is crap.
      Last edited by shadowsor; 12-30-2019 at 01:23 PM.

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      Yeh the Volvo and Polestar brand image separation is a mixed bag. There will be many people asking about Polestar at Volvo dealerships, or about XC40 EV in Polestar showroom. It is also more powerful marketing if XC40 and Polestar 2 are displayed side by side in showroom. If Polestar is just called Volvo Polestar, things could be easier.

      They want Polestar to be a sporty brand without the top speed cap from Volvo. But then Polestar better makes a 360HP ICE car for the 80% non-EV buyers. Just like AMG won't stop making ICE cars.

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      Quote Originally Posted by shadowsor View Post
      I think the issue around China is interesting. For decades, Chinese made stuff has often been very cheap and unreliable, however, itís not like they are incapable of making good products with the right investment. If we are honest, some of the worlds best manufacturing is in China. You can get a $100 smartphone that is slow and falls apart in a week, or the highest end, state of the art Apple iPhone, all made in China. It has more to do with the company and their manufacturing processes than the country theyíre in.

      Some people are against buying Chinese cars from an ideological/political perspective, and I wonít get into that, but I think itís a bit of antiquated thinking to assume Chinese manufacturing is crap.
      I know there is no issue with chinese built cars, there is no difference between a Chinese and a Swedish built s90 in repairs recalls or any other way. but that just isnt how your average american views it. the polestar factory is quite impressive. But i talk to people every day about how "terrible" it is with volvo being owned by Geely. they dont see that ford nearly ran volvo(and jaguar and land rover and mazda) into the ground and the chinese have more or less thrown money at volvo and left them alone to build awesome cars.

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      Quote Originally Posted by cometguy View Post
      Yes, I know that there will be more interest once the Polestar 2 and XC40 BEVs are actually available to test-drive and buy. But that doesn't explain why the Mach-E and Taycan online forums are getting a lot of discussion, but there's no similar level at Volvo/Polestar forums. I don't buy that it's because "Volvo drivers are more on the practical side"; current Volvos (especially since the change to Thor-hammer-headlights) are luxury vehicles whose average price is well above the "practical" average price of a new car sold in the USA today. I presume that you are referring to cargo space when you say "practical"; the range is not all that "practical" in the current slew of Volvos because their gas tanks are so small and their engines don't get the best mileage -- a big reason why I do not own a Thor's-hammer-headlight Volvo right now.
      Not presuming to speak for FusionRedXC60, but when I think of the practicality angle and Volvo I'm not so much thinking of cargo space. I'm thinking of a car designed for drivers show aren't necessarily enthusiasts, but who want comfortable, safe (and these days, luxurious) transportation rather than hair-on-fire performance. Sure, there are plenty of those, too - but even the R types were always a bit quirky that way.

      The Taycan is a performance car from a performance car company. Lots of enthusiasm there, particularly since they've seen things like the Tesla that can be so freaking quick in a family car.

      The Mach-E had tremendous hype and there is a large, faithful, Mustang following to begin with.

      It doesn't seem the least unusual to me that 'brands' - thinking of the Mustang as its own brand here (much like a Corvette) - focused on performance and that have been around for many years would generate more enthusiasm than little, underhyped, Polestar or the not-so-performance-oriented XC40.

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      Polestar 2 is in pre-production now and hopefully starts delivery in summer or late 2020. But no showroom is opened in US yet. One is open at Beijing, Oslo, and next one will be at Montreal. Maybe it is always hard to find space in shopping mall but this delays the showroom for American buyers. Maybe China and Europe is the higher priority market for them. But if they want to compete with Model 3, they need to bring it here sooner than later.
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      Stopping to think about, if Volvo had announced that their BEV was going to be a new V90 R I think there would have been more discussion. That could have been interesting

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      Quote Originally Posted by Catfiend View Post
      Stopping to think about, if Volvo had announced that their BEV was going to be a new V90 R I think there would have been more discussion. That could have been interesting
      But there is an important difference between discussion and sales =-D
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      Quote Originally Posted by Catfiend View Post
      Stopping to think about, if Volvo had announced that their BEV was going to be a new V90 R I think there would have been more discussion. That could have been interesting
      A XC90 EV R will sell much more.
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      Iím highly interested in a Volvo BEV.


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    19. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by RootDKJ View Post
      Iím highly interested in a Volvo BEV.


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      Me too. There was a nice synopsis of BEV's in the WSJ the other day.
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      Quote Originally Posted by brich999 View Post
      I am excited for the battery vehicles to start showing up, im especially curious in the relationship between polestar and volvo cars. as a volvo dealership employee i get mixed reactions from other employees and customers ranging from the enthuastic volvo customer who has two orders on the polestar 2 to the customer who sees polestar as a cheap chinese company which isnt volvo. curious when there is a problem where can you take it? they have made a big deal out of polestar being its own company, and made it clear they will not be opening dealerships or even leveraging the polestar volvo dealer network currently, should be interesting. I think the car will be a hit if they can deliver them in a timely manor. i just want to know when i can get a polestar 1 erad to swap into a s60t8. but polestar 1 does not show in vida, too bad
      My understanding is that you'll be able to pick up Polestar BEVs from Volvo dealerships, and that Volvo dealerships will be servicing them. The Polestar BEVs obviously have the looks of Volvos both inside and out (but especially inside), so they obviously have solid links between the two organizations. I presume that the same team working on Polestar 2 (and 3) is working on the XC40 BEV (and forthcoming "Volvo"-labelled BEVs). From Motor Authority online a few months ago: "The Polestar 2 shares its Volvo CMA platform underpinnings with the Volvo XC40 and a crossover SUV sold by parent company Geely's new Chinese-market subscription-oriented brand Lynk & Co."

      I don't think this "Polestar [BEV] Showroom" business is an issue; Polestar 2 will be ordered online like Tesla is, but they will be delivered to Volvo dealerships for passing along to the new owners. But there will only be "select" Volvo dealers working with Polestar 2, apparently. I don't understand all this...

      This was stated by Thomas Ingenlath, Polestar CEO, in a Forbes online article two months ago:
      ďWe are independent of Volvo. No Volvo showrooms are involved, but we will do this together with well established Volvo dealers who can guarantee that service is provided."

      From Car and Driver online, earlier this year: Similarly to Tesla, the idea is to use "brand experience" centers and sell vehicles directly to customers, with the final transaction completed online and delivery taken through the local franchised dealer.

      So, like with Tesla, there won't be any "haggling" of prices; there's a set price, and that's that. Which can be nice, actually.

      Also from Motor Authority online from May 3, 2019:
      "Polestar is, legally speaking, its own brand in the U.S., even though it shares office space with Volvo. That means that Polestar and Volvo won't have to draw from the same pool when it comes to federal, state, and local tax incentives applied to electric cars. Polestar and Volvo will each have the full 200,000 $7,500 federal credits.
      Additionally, the cars' VINs will be Polestar-specific. ... The Polestar 3 will be a larger crossover SUV along the lines of a Volvo XC90. Volvo exterior design chief Maximilian Missoni said it won't look much like the Polestar 1 or the Polestar 2.

      Polestars will be sold through Volvo dealers, not that buyers will know it
      Polestar will have its own network of dealers when the first cars hit the market in 2020, though the automaker's sales department has only invited existing Volvo dealers to apply for Polestar franchises. Initially, the company plans to set up a handful of showrooms in major markets on the West Coast before expanding eastward. The showrooms won't be branded with dealer group names, so their nomenclature will be along the lines of Polestar of San Francisco or Polestar of Seattle.

      Polestar USA head Gregor Hembrough told Motor Authority that the company's showrooms will operate in high-traffic areas and will be staffed by product experts who aren't paid on commission. However, actual sales paperwork will be handled by dealers and so will any servicing. "
      Last edited by cometguy; 12-30-2019 at 07:44 PM.

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      Dealership probably is on their own to choose whether to join Polestar network. They can deliver the car to customer but maybe can only charge the document fee and for finance assist. So their incentive is low. Servicing will be rare too. They probably won't even park a demo Polestar 2 on their lot, though it could help them sell XC40 EV.

      Will see how it goes in late 2020. The best way to attract shoppers is to set up showroom near Tesla showroom, but it is not always possible in a popular shopping mall.

      If American don't get to see the car first, they will not buy it, like what happened for V90.

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      Another problem may be that not all of us are candidates for electric vehicles. I am an oddball in that I drive 40,000 plus miles per year with my Volvo. Totally electric vehicles are wildly impractical for me until they get to the point they can go 400+ miles on a 5 minute charge.
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      Thereís no enthusiasm for a reason. If I wanted a car that really drives well, I would not be buying a Volvo SUV. Thatís just a fact. I buy Volvo for safety, comfort and practicality (space is quite decent in the luxury range without feeling like Iím maneuvering a boat).


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      Also there is no much to discuss now that we know the spec, exterior, interior, Sensus UI.

      People here are familiar with those already. And new car shoppers haven't found this site...

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      Quote Originally Posted by Walch1102 View Post
      Thereís no enthusiasm for a reason. If I wanted a car that really drives well, I would not be buying a Volvo SUV. Thatís just a fact. I buy Volvo for safety, comfort and practicality (space is quite decent in the luxury range without feeling like Iím maneuvering a boat).


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      Iím not understanding how that is relevant to EVs. Presumably a Volvo EV would also have safety, comfort, practicality.

      In terms of practicality the majority might find it more practical to never need to visit a gas station again. Others may find it less practical if they drive thousands of miles straight. Itís a personal call.

      I think there is enthusiasm, I see lots of articles tracking every little bit of info released (for example the Polestar tow rating announced a few days back). There just not yet a clearly defined forum for people to discuss Polestar and the XC40 threads have burned out on existing information. There just needs to be news to discuss, or reviews, or models in the hands of people.

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      Somebody mentioned in kristian_xc60's page at instagram that SPA2 EV will get 110kwh battery, and PHEV 18kwh.

      Maybe coming in two years on SPA2 XC90 timeline. Good stuff if you can wait.

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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      Somebody mentioned in kristian_xc60's page at instagram that SPA2 EV will get 110kwh battery, and PHEV 18kwh.

      Good stuff if you can wait.

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      Just lease and then you can have one while the other is being developed

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      Why So Little Interest Here in Volvo/Polestar BEVs?

      Quote Originally Posted by shadowsor View Post
      Iím not understanding how that is relevant to EVs. Presumably a Volvo EV would also have safety, comfort, practicality.

      In terms of practicality the majority might find it more practical to never need to visit a gas station again. Others may find it less practical if they drive thousands of miles straight. Itís a personal call.

      I think there is enthusiasm, I see lots of articles tracking every little bit of info released (for example the Polestar tow rating announced a few days back). There just not yet a clearly defined forum for people to discuss Polestar and the XC40 threads have burned out on existing information. There just needs to be news to discuss, or reviews, or models in the hands of people.
      Itís marketed as a performance vehicle. That is simply not what the Volvo brand is associated with. Polestar itself is nothing if not associated with Volvo.

      There are 3 things I pay for:
      -luxury
      -safety
      -performance/tech

      Volvo has 2 of the above. I am not paying the additional premium for performance/tech. At $63k starting (for a sedan), they are certainly charging for that 3rd premium but delivering way less than a Tesla.

      Volvo was basically first in safety and itís why they continue to thrive based on that reputation because consumers can trust they will continue to invest in safety and have a marginal lead. Same for Tesla and tech/BEVs. Volvo/Polestar is at least 5 years behind and their first vehicle will NOT be great.


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      Quote Originally Posted by Walch1102 View Post
      Itís marketed as a performance vehicle. That is simply not what the Volvo brand is associated with. Polestar itself is nothing if not associated with Volvo.

      There are 3 things I pay for:
      -luxury
      -safety
      -performance/tech

      Volvo has 2 of the above. I am not paying the additional premium for performance/tech. At $63k starting (for a sedan), they are certainly charging for that 3rd premium but delivering way less than a Tesla.

      Volvo was basically first in safety and itís why they continue to thrive based on that reputation because consumers can trust they will continue to invest in safety and have a marginal lead. Same for Tesla and tech/BEVs. Volvo/Polestar is at least 5 years behind and their first vehicle will NOT be great.


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      If you think 3-4sec vs 4-5ssec 0-60 is really important then sure Tesla or Taycan is the lead. However 5s is more than adequate on public roads. Polestar 2 is comparable to Model 3 of course. Model 3 buyers are not all for the 0-60 numbers.

      Next year Polestar 2 will be available from $4xk

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      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 01-01-2020 at 02:56 PM.
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    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Walch1102 View Post
      Itís marketed as a performance vehicle. That is simply not what the Volvo brand is associated with. Polestar itself is nothing if not associated with Volvo.

      There are 3 things I pay for:
      -luxury
      -safety
      -performance/tech

      Volvo has 2 of the above. I am not paying the additional premium for performance/tech. At $63k starting (for a sedan), they are certainly charging for that 3rd premium but delivering way less than a Tesla.

      Volvo was basically first in safety and itís why they continue to thrive based on that reputation because consumers can trust they will continue to invest in safety and have a marginal lead. Same for Tesla and tech/BEVs. Volvo/Polestar is at least 5 years behind and their first vehicle will NOT be great.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I have never bought Volvos for the luxury part. I do like their good seats. I have bought them for quality and safety -- including their stability in driving and handling -- and the practicality of their wagons. These things are not necessarily associated with "luxury".

      Volvo and Polestar are behind in battery technology, yes. But Polestar 2 looks to be much better this way in terms of range than are Volvos PHEVs (which are very poor in all-electric range with some of the smallest battery packs in the automotive industry for PHEVs). I actually think that Polestar 2, which looks like a 2020 Volvo S90 on steroids, will be superb; it replaces the horrendous Sensus system with a new Google infotainment system (though I'm frustrated to see that they've copied Tesla's tacky habit of having an infotainment screen that looks like a computer tablet that's just glued to the dashboard -- the worst part of the Polestar 2 that I can see). I would buy Polestar 2 over any Tesla because it's going to be built better and I'm sure it will be a safer car to be in. I won't worry about range if I buy a Polestar 2 or Polestar 3 because I will not be buying it to deal with public-charging hassles, but will rather use it as a daily driver around town for 11 months of the year. The Polestar 3 is rumored to be an SUV, probably like the XC60. I would love to see Polestar 4 be a lifted Cross Country wagon.
      Last edited by cometguy; 01-01-2020 at 04:37 PM.

    31. #29
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      Why So Little Interest Here in Volvo/Polestar BEVs?

      Quote Originally Posted by Walch1102 View Post
      Itís marketed as a performance vehicle. That is simply not what the Volvo brand is associated with. Polestar itself is nothing if not associated with Volvo.

      There are 3 things I pay for:
      -luxury
      -safety
      -performance/tech

      Volvo has 2 of the above. I am not paying the additional premium for performance/tech. At $63k starting (for a sedan), they are certainly charging for that 3rd premium but delivering way less than a Tesla.

      Volvo was basically first in safety and itís why they continue to thrive based on that reputation because consumers can trust they will continue to invest in safety and have a marginal lead. Same for Tesla and tech/BEVs. Volvo/Polestar is at least 5 years behind and their first vehicle will NOT be great.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I think Polestar probably could stand on its own as a brand, like rivian or Tesla who came from nothing. Having the Volvo backing is a bonus.

      The Polestar 2 ($55.5k US after tax incentive) is price and performance competitive with a loaded BMW 340i. Probably even minus the tax incentive. Itís more than a Model 3, but it also looks to be more upscale and better manufacturing behind it. They arenít trying to be a million a year Everyman car like model 3, they are maintaining luxury.
      Last edited by shadowsor; 01-01-2020 at 03:24 PM.

    32. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by cometguy View Post
      I have never bought Volvos for the luxury part. I do like their good seats.

      Volvo and Polestar are behind in battery technology, yes. But Polestar 2 looks to be much better this way in terms of range than Volvos PHEVs are (they are very poor in all-electric range with some of the smallest battery packs in the automotive industry for PHEVs). I actually think that Polestar 2, which looks like a 2020 Volvo S90 on steroids, will be superb; it replaces the horrendous Sensus system with a new Google infotainment system (though I'm frustrated to see that they've copied Tesla's tacky habit of having an infotainment screen that looks like a computer tablet that's just glued to the dashboard -- the worst part of the Polestar 2 that I can see). I would buy Polestar 2 over any Tesla because it's going to be built better and I'm sure it will be a safer car to be in. I won't worry about range if I buy a Polestar 2 or Polestar 3 because I will not be buying it to deal with public-charging hassles, but will rather use it as a daily driver around town for 11 months of the year. The Polestar 3 is rumored to be an SUV, probably like the XC60. I would love to see Polestar 4 be a lifted Cross Country wagon.
      Range is a huge issue, and I donít mean that itís too little. I mean that the system is being gamed. Most manufacturers multiply their EPA tested value by 0.7 to ensure the end EPA number is a real world number. Tesla uses all sorts of numbers, the Model S P85 used 0.79, other ones use .75 or .73. That alone means their range numbers are 3-9% higher than they would otherwise be apples to apples.

      Additionally thereís the issue about whether the EPA value represents 100% charge or some other manufacturer recommended level (EVs commonly recommend an 80% charge because it is easier on the battery).

    33. #31
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      Long range is mostly useful if you drive long trip often, which is not the case for most Tesla owners. I see much fewer Tesla on interstate highway than in city.

      Anyways, there are multiple factors to consider in EV shopping. Range, acceleration, styling, building quality, price, etc. People pick the car they feel better with.

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    34. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      If you think 3-4sec vs 4-5ssec 0-60 is really important then sure Tesla or Taycan is the lead. However 5s is more than adequate on public roads. Polestar 2 is comparable to Model 3 of course. Model 3 buyers are not all for the 0-60 numbers.

      Next year Polestar 2 will be available from $4xk

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Model 3 buyers are all about the latest tech.

      Polestar buyers will be Volvo buyers. I just donít see the PS2 converting any Tesla fans or any techies in general.

      Itís a great car, but in 5 years when all manufacturers have good decent BEV offerings, buyers will continue to stay with the brands they like. PS2 really doesnít offer anything radically different.


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    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Walch1102 View Post
      Model 3 buyers are all about the latest tech.

      Polestar buyers will be Volvo buyers. I just donít see the PS2 converting any Tesla fans or any techies in general.

      Itís a great car, but in 5 years when all manufacturers have good decent BEV offerings, buyers will continue to stay with the brands they like. PS2 really doesnít offer anything radically different.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      It's true that Polestar 2 is essentially a Volvo S90 (or possibly S60, due to its shorter length?) on steroids. But Tesla buyers have come from all corners of the automotive world (in terms of buyers), as have Leaf and Bolt owners (I know of Porsche owners who own both and like them). And if you look at the new Mach-E forum, you'll see people from all different backgrounds (many who do not own Fords, like myself), who are very interested. Likewise, with VW coming out with a slew of BEVs in the next few years, I suspect that many people who've never owned a VW (such as myself) will be looking closely at these, and many will buy them. I think that the Polestar BEVs will attract attention from many quarters, as long as Volvo/Polestar get general-public exposure to them. Porsche is doing their first-ever Super Bowl commercial this year, and it's for their Taycan BEV; would Volvo/Polestar ever dare to do that for a BEV? Geely would probably bankroll such a commercial.

      And I note that there are plenty of Tesla owners who are bailing already -- and more will bail -- to get BEVs made by other companies, because many Tesla owners are tired of the poor quality of of the builds, of the software updates that leaves many stranded, and of the slowing service times when things need fixing. There's a lot of opportunity for Volvo/Polestar to gain some Tesla converts, for sure, because a lot of the problems that Teslas have will not be problems in Volvo/Polestar BEVs. Tesla has mainly had a monopoly for years because their competition has been crappy-looking, nerdy BEVs like the i3, Leaf, Bolt, etc.; but now that lots of "regular"- and even "cool"-looking SUVs and crossover and sedan BEVs are coming out, Tesla will lose its monopoly quickly. Volvo/Polestar knows this; VW knows this; Ford knows this; all the luxury brands know this.

      Also, somebody wrote above that Volvo is backing Polestar, but in reality it is Geely that is backing both (and indeed Polestar is being made in China). In fact, I'm not sure why they are trying to spin Polestar as a separate company, when clearly Volvo and Polestar continue to work together -- and, indeed, if you look at the Polestar 2, it looks inside and out pretty much like a Volvo S90, as I said (the exceptions being that Sensus has been discarded for the new Google infotainment system, but that's coming to all Volvos for MY2021 also, and Polestar 2 has a Tesla-like computer-tablet screen "glued" onto the dashboard). (Polestar 2 also has a few new additions, besides the stuff connected to the electric drivetrain -- one being the electrochromic "smart"-glass roof which is fixed and does not open.)
      Last edited by cometguy; 01-01-2020 at 05:06 PM.

    36. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Walch1102 View Post
      Model 3 buyers are all about the latest tech.

      Polestar buyers will be Volvo buyers. I just donít see the PS2 converting any Tesla fans or any techies in general.

      Itís a great car, but in 5 years when all manufacturers have good decent BEV offerings, buyers will continue to stay with the brands they like. PS2 really doesnít offer anything radically different.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      The Android UI with Google services in PS2 is actually better tech. The slightly better driving assist is the only thing better on Model 3. Video playing, gaming are easy stuff to enable. Bigger screen maybe better but the driver display in PS2 is also much better than Model 3.

      There will surely be people cross shopping between these two.

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    37. #35
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      Why So Little Interest Here in Volvo/Polestar BEVs?

      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      The Android UI with Google services in PS2 is actually better tech. The slightly better driving assist is the only thing better on Model 3. Video playing, gaming are easy stuff to enable. Bigger screen maybe better but the driver display in PS2 is also much better than Model 3.

      There will surely be people cross shopping between these two.

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      Slightly better? Cmon. Be honest.

      Letís be clear, I have my phone for stuff I want to do on a phone. Thereís a reason why self-driving tech is a big deal. And itís not something android is going to solve for Polestar.


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