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Advantages of 0W20 over 5W30?

64K views 210 replies 36 participants last post by  kevindear 
#1 ·
I’ve decided that I’m going to do my own oil changes. Is there any advantage to using the Volvo spec’d 0W20 over the A5/B5 spec 5W30 that the manual says is acceptable for the US? Trying to decide if it’s worth the extra effort ordering the Volvo spec 0W20 or just getting an A5/B5 5W30 at Walmart.

Thanks!
 
#117 · (Edited)
The thing about it is guys is that the manual says any ACEA A5/B5 oil. Makes no mention of the VCC spec. CASTROL edge 5-30 says it exceeds the A5/B5 spec. There are so few VCC spec oils in the states and most of them are just boutique brands like liqumoly just pouring same oil into a bottle and calling it VCC spec oil.

If Volvo officially requires 0-20 they need to mail everyone a new owners manual and issue a recall to switch out the oil and the stickers.

They won't do this though because 5-30 should be just fine.

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#120 ·
If liquidmoly is just "pouring in " non VCC spec. oil and labeling it as such, they possibly opening themselves up to quite a liability lawsuit if not outright fraud, from both US govt and prob Volvo too, because label mentions meeting Volvo specs.

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#122 ·
What does your wife's 2017 XC90 show under the hood? I'm curious as ours has a 0W-20 sticker. I'm not aware of a campaign to update them. Based on how this has been trending, I'm glad I went out of my way to get VCC 0W-20 from the beginning.

This is on my 2020 XC90 T6. I can send you my wife's 2017 later when she's home

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Interesting, our 2017 T8 (Feb 2017 build date) has a 0W-20 label. Unfortunately, I don't recall noticing if it's been changed or not.


@Tech, has there been a campaign to update/replace the recommended oil stickers?
 
#119 ·
Zero weight is just going to be a bit better in colder climates. For every day use use the 5w. If it’s really hot where you are then maybe a 5w-40. Full syn either way. My two pennies.


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#121 ·
Why would they? They just go read the VCC spec, find an oil of theirs that matches or exceeds the spec, and pour it in. Why would they waste the time and R&D to go make a special one off blend of oil just for Volvos. If you believe that Liquomoly, or anyone else would do that, you need to wake up.

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#123 ·
Well if it matches or exceeds the vcc spec and if that is what they did, then they would be safe from any fraudulent claim or liability.

However, if they just poured any ole oil and label it meeting a certain criteria then they are opened to liability and possibly criminal charges. That is just the facts of law, that people who are awake know.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your post, but I took it as meaning the latter.

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#131 ·
Interesting that yours has a part number (as in it could be ordered to update) but mine doesn't. Also, where under the hood is your 2017's label? It' looks like there's a recessed designated spot for it. Our T8's plastic molding under the hood doesn't have a particular detent for the recommended oil label.
 
#136 · (Edited)
Again. Zero weight performs better in the cold. Easier to pump. 20-30-40 is oils operating temperature viscosity. Higher number thicker oil. 30 weight will give better protection in higher heat harder driven vehicles than 20 weight. For example: my c30 recommends 0w30 or 5w30. I use 5w40 full syn. K16 turbo 27 psi lots of heat and no winter driving. Dont need the ultra low temp start protection of zero weight but need better protection when it’s hot.


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#141 · (Edited)
I used Driven break in oil after the build and their DT40 for the first two seasons. And your right-got drop the oil frequently. I have since switched to Pentosin HPII 5w40 and add my own ZDDP.



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#142 ·
Nice pics! I like that black/blue prancing horse, nice touch.
 
#143 ·
Thanks-I know you meant Moose....ya

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#153 · (Edited)
Thanks for sharing - kids loved seeing your racing C30 :) - they loved watching KPAX's S60s race in person when they were tiny but never got to see their C30s and now a little older they're avid car critics who love the C30 :) and wish (me too) it was still available. AWD Polestar model preferably, like the 500+hp one off they made, lol.

If only I'd bought a few more Prancing Moose stickers before he was taken down, although I guess he's still able to sell Prancing Moose just without the Volvo brand over it.
 
#154 ·
It is a blast. Im sitting in the neighborhood of 425whp. Going north of that-next year-(ball park 500 and change with PumaSpeed hybrid. Then calling it good. I dont want any more for the daily. Love the spool of the k16 without the cat and definitely dont want to go return fueling for DD. We have a drag car for that. Current build is 1800whp with new motor being built as we speak(shooting for 2500whp) twin 85mm Garretts and straight methanol.

Yes you can still get the stickers but no Volvo sadly.

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#169 ·
I was going to say, I thought you were in Belgium where it should be exclusively 0W-20 (toujours des conditions extrĂŞmes lĂ  ;) ). It seems the oil spec has been evolving rapidly since the beginning of the year in the US and may explain the outdated US manual. I also recall mention in the forums that car manufactures are required to make oil free if it's a unique blend that is not publicly available so it could be legal, too if that claim has any truth behind it.
 
#171 · (Edited)
So let's compare the specs of 5W-30 Volvo USED to recommend, the new Pro 0W-20 Volvo NOW requires, and the EDGE 0W-20 the average joe can go out and buy. I'm not looking at other brands here because Volvo recommends Castrol so that's what we're going with.

You can find all of these MDS here: https://msdspds.castrol.com/msdspds...&output=Full&spu=Lubricants&unrestrictedmb=No

First the 5W-30 of yore:
White Line Material property Beige

Note that it meets the A5/B5 specification

Now the Pro 0W-20:
White Line

Note that it is an A1/B1 oil but also meets the VCC spec.

And finally the 0W-20 you can get from Amazon and other places rather cheaply.
White Line Material property Beige


There are a few parameters that must be tested in the VCC spec that are not part of A5/B5 or A1/B1 specifications. In particular it is High Temp High Shear test of the CEC-L014-A-97 specification. The Pro 20 oil checks in at 2.8cP.
Another specification to meet VCC is Noack Volatility CEC L-40-A-93 and the Pro 20 has a 11.9% loss (this is not a great number actually, 13% is the upper limit)
Coming along with this is the Gelation Index ASTM D5133 of 6. That's pretty average and I guess doesn't really mean much for the VCC spec.
Another test the Pro specifies is Viscosity, MRV/Yield Stress at -40C or ASTM D4684. It reports 14000mPa.s(cP)

So those are the tests that set the Pro apart from the other two oils, let's compare the specs they have in common

TestPro 205W300W20Notes
ASTM D4052
0.84210.850.841
ASTM D445
8.849.58.7(this is at 100C)
ASTM D5293
4600
47754400(lower number is better)
ASTM D445
47.095345(this is at 40C)
ASTM D2270
171
164161
ASTM D97-54-45-42 (larger negative number here is better)
ASTM D93
206204206 (higher number is better here)

Interestingly enough what is not specified in the VCC spec is ash content which has always been a concern with A1/B1 oils and C5 specifications. Both the regular 30 and 20 oils are low at 1.2 and 1.0.

To me the Pro 20 comes off as a heavy 20 weight oil compared to the regular 20 stuff you get at Wal-Mart and Amazon. Since the standard 20 oil isn't being tested for HTHS we have no idea if it comes close to the numbers needed for the VCC spec. The Pro 20 seems to be concerned with putting up good cold viscosity numbers. Just look at the D97 pour point, it blows the others away. But then the regular 0W20 scores better in the cold crank simulator test (ASTM D5293) so i dunno :confused: However the two 20 weight oils seem to track each other closely in the other tests.

I don't really know what to think or choose here. You can't get Castrol Pro on the open market, so you have to decide if the regular 20 is close enough in specs and make some leaps of faith that the untested parameters are going to be similar.
 
#174 ·
So let's compare the specs of 5W-30 Volvo USED to recommend, the new Pro 0W-20 Volvo NOW requires, and the EDGE 0W-20 the average joe can go out and buy. I'm not looking at other brands here because Volvo recommends Castrol so that's what we're going with.

You can find all of these MDS here: https://msdspds.castrol.com/msdspds...&output=Full&spu=Lubricants&unrestrictedmb=No

First the 5W-30 of yore:
View attachment 70087
Note that it meets the A5/B5 specification

Now the Pro 0W-20:
View attachment 70089
Note that it is an A1/B1 oil but also meets the VCC spec.

And finally the 0W-20 you can get from Amazon and other places rather cheaply.
View attachment 70091

There are a few parameters that must be tested in the VCC spec that are not part of A5/B5 or A1/B1 specifications. In particular it is High Temp High Shear test of the CEC-L014-A-97 specification. The Pro 20 oil checks in at 2.8cP.
Another specification to meet VCC is Noack Volatility CEC L-40-A-93 and the Pro 20 has a 11.9% loss (this is not a great number actually, 13% is the upper limit)
Coming along with this is the Gelation Index ASTM D5133 of 6. That's pretty average and I guess doesn't really mean much for the VCC spec.
Another test the Pro specifies is Viscosity, MRV/Yield Stress at -40C or ASTM D4684. It reports 14000mPa.s(cP)

So those are the tests that set the Pro apart from the other two oils, let's compare the specs they have in common

TestPro 205W300W20Notes
ASTM D4052
0.84210.850.841
ASTM D445
8.849.58.7(this is at 100C)
ASTM D5293
4600
47754400(lower number is better)
ASTM D445
47.095345(this is at 40C)
ASTM D2270
171
164161
ASTM D97-54-45-42 (larger negative number here is better)
ASTM D93
206204206 (higher number is better here)

Interestingly enough what is not specified in the VCC spec is ash content which has always been a concern with A1/B1 oils and C5 specifications. Both the regular 30 and 20 oils are low at 1.2 and 1.0.

To me the Pro 20 comes off as a heavy 20 weight oil compared to the regular 20 stuff you get at Wal-Mart and Amazon. Since the standard 20 oil isn't being tested for HTHS we have no idea if it comes close to the numbers needed for the VCC spec. The Pro 20 seems to be concerned with putting up good cold viscosity numbers. Just look at the D97 pour point, it blows the others away. But then the regular 0W20 scores better in the cold crank simulator test (ASTM D5293) so i dunno :confused: However the two 20 weight oils seem to track each other closely in the other tests.

I don't really know what to think or choose here. You can't get Castrol Pro on the open market, so you have to decide if the regular 20 is close enough in specs and make some leaps of faith that the untested parameters are going to be similar.
Per sources from Volvo and Castrol, the Edge and Edge Professional are exactly the same, with the exception of the leak detection dye which is in the Professional.

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#172 · (Edited)
I'll also say another word about that Liqui-Moly Volvo spec oil they are peddling. Their MDS sheet is ****. It only states their oil is above or below the minimum values defined on the various ASTM tests, not what the actual values are. That tells me they have just found an oil in their inventory that meets the specs Volvo laid out, but it doesn't specify how far it exceeds them. Lazy if you ask me:

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pidoc/P003747/8420-SpecialTecV0W-20-23.0-en.pdf
 
#178 ·
#180 ·
Just put a high quality @&)*ing oil in it and drop the oil **** debate already. If you want extra then use additives, no cat ZDDP, with cat ,stick to Lucas or Amsoil, super low temps use a lower weight, constant high temps use heavy weight, racing....use what gets you results: that oil is gonna be change religiously, whatever that is.


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#181 ·
"High quality oil" isn't going to win a warranty debate with Volvo with the drive-e ****ter starts consuming oil

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#182 ·
Precisely. "If" warranty is the concern put in what Volvo recommends. If it seams shady, document it every time. Don't gamble..why ask.. Asking what, when, why , where, type and all all the crazy numbers being thrown around is absurd. If the oil doesn't perform the way you want, warranty issues aside, then switch. I change oil often, summer 1500-2000 miles or less depending on the dipstick.

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#186 ·
Wow you must have a great nose, can you smell cancer too?


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#187 ·
Wow you must have a great nose, can you smell cancer too?

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No No No, I leave that to the pups. I know my limitations. Lol

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#188 ·
Come on guys. If we all spent all damn day wondering about every single aspect of oil we’d never be out driving and using said oil. Which would make this conversation even more irrelevant. As I said before, if it’s warranty that is the issue then play the game. If you own it (car) then stick to high quality companies (no mlms or snake oil) and put in what suits your climate or driving style. If your climate swings drastically then use the 0 weight. (Which is probably why Volvo Switched in the first place A convenient one size fits all.) this whole discussion reminds me of another on here recently: what’s the best coolant. The “best” is water with water wetter agents. Tests show it (water) is the best coolant. But obviously straight water freezes so enter glycol and other (preservatives) since the manufacturer’s know that the average (look for Joe) isn’t gonna bother with replacing said fluid when they should. It’s just like the human body, no maintenance, no longevity. Pretty simply really.


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#190 ·
Just to throw this into the mix. 2010 Lexus rx350 0w20 for the past 187000 miles ,redline every morning no warm up. Still running smooth. Drive the car guys like the post above me said.

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Having owned Toyota products, i would say there is a difference between them and other car makers I have owned in terms of quality/reliability. My Volvo experience has been limited to only a few months now, therefore I am not sure, although hopeful, that Volvo can achieve a comparable reliable performance.
 
#192 ·
We both know it has the 3l NA engine. My point was more about the viscosity of 0w20. I’m sure that redlining the 3l motor while it is cold would put more stress on the engine than our daily driving with 2l turbo and supercharged Volvo motor.
And since the poor 2l is based on the 2011-12 polestar racing engine I’m sure it can take some beating before things start going south. The taxi drivers in Sweden had 260k km on the diesel and 155k km on the t6. None of them complained about engine issues and all they were doing was the maintenance. And yes I do remember the piston rings issue on some of the MY16’s. I will stick to whatever viscosity the manual says, keep changing the oil little more often and see for myself how far will the Volvo take me.


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#193 ·
We both know it has the 3l NA engine. My point was more about the viscosity of 0w20. I'm sure that redlining the 3l motor while it is cold would put more stress on the engine than our daily driving with 2l turbo and supercharged Volvo motor.
And since the poor 2l is based on the 2011-12 polestar racing engine I'm sure it can take some beating before things start going south. The taxi drivers in Sweden had 260k km on the diesel and 155k km on the t6. None of them complained about engine issues and all they were doing was the maintenance. And yes I do remember the piston rings issue on some of the MY16's. I will stick to whatever viscosity the manual says, keep changing the oil little more often and see for myself how far will the Volvo take me.

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Don't get sucked in. Eventually you'll get THE know-it-all's jumping in and claiming that they are THE greatest and most knowledgeable on the subject, when really they live vicariously through Google and not from actual experience.

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