The new polestar drag race
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    1. #1
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      The new polestar drag race

      Hi guys,

      Here's a drag video of the new S60 polester engineered car.

      https://youtu.be/A_R92Obvbfc

      It's hard to believe that this car with impressive performance numbers is not coming out a winner.

      The comments on the YouTube channel aren't taking it easy on the Volvo. I know the Volvo will get sympathy here. Do you guys believe the results from these races are legit?

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    3. #2
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      Quote Originally Posted by Janico View Post
      Hi guys,

      Here's a drag video of the new S60 polester engineered car.

      https://youtu.be/A_R92Obvbfc


      It's hard to believe that this car with impressive performance numbers is not coming out a winner.

      The comments on the YouTube channel aren't taking it easy on the Volvo. I know the Volvo will get sympathy here. Do you guys believe the results from these races are legit?

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      1st - Hello folks, hopefully you'll not mind someone from Scotland rather than USA as there's very few decent UK forums for the new Volvos.

      It doesn't surprise me - Volvo has "cheated" when it comes to performance figures by adding the ICE and electric together where in reality it appears the electric "fills in the gaps" rather than working together.

      The Straight pipes seem to have hit the nail on the head
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZIItUghEhU

      That being said - even after driving the XC60 T8 (non-PE as it's almost impossible to get a test drive of a PE in Scotland) I still put an order for March of a V60 PE as it's a much better allrounder than something like a M340i especially as I got about £9500 off and the UK/Scottish gov has various sweeteners for electric charging points etc (free charging point installation at home - free charging at public points) and volvo are offering free electricity for a year (usage based on Volvo OnCall calculation).

      Personally I think of the PE (especially the V60) more like the 330e/530e as it's much more under the radar than the 340 etc and far less "track inspired".


      Edit: Like a fool got the models messed up.
      Last edited by amadan; 01-04-2020 at 05:34 PM.

    4. #3
      Junior Member Rrrracer's Avatar
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      The Bimmer hosed the rest by a full second; you could have thrown a blanket over the other three which were nearly identical.

      .2 secs in a drag race could easily be down to the driver's reaction time, etc. I wouldn't put too much weight in it LOL.

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    6. #4
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      Yes it legit. It's a Volvo not a sports car. Do not confuse the two. I just laugh at anyone that thinks otherwise.

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    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rrrracer View Post
      The Bimmer hosed the rest by a full second; you could have thrown a blanket over the other three which were nearly identical.

      .2 secs in a drag race could easily be down to the driver's reaction time, etc. I wouldn't put too much weight in it LOL.
      The channel is known to love everything BMW. Like whenever infotainments are compared is always "it's not as good as BMW's iDrive". It's hilarious really. So we knew the BMW was gonna do well before the race.

      My question is it seems the whole episode is designed to trash Volvo. I'm thinking there is rigging of some sorts to completely remove Volvo off the game. Maybe they are letting off the gas at opportune times. But what can I say? I'm hoping someone may post a link where similar race of Volvo against BMW and others is done so I can observe some repeatability of results.

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      Last edited by Janico; 01-05-2020 at 03:51 PM.

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by schmitty8225 View Post
      Yes it legit. It's a Volvo not a sports car. Do not confuse the two. I just laugh at anyone that thinks otherwise.

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      Isn't that making the whole purpose of polestar obsolete. Lol . Someone said the same thing on the YouTube channel and was reply with the same answer

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      Quote Originally Posted by Janico View Post
      The channel is known to love veverything BMW. Like whenever infotainments are compared is always "it's not at good as BMW's iDrive". It's hilarious really. So we knew the BMW was gonna do well before the race.

      My question is it seems the whole episode is designed to trash Volvo. I'm thinking there is rigging of some sorts to completely remove Volvo off the game. Maybe they are letting off the gas at opportune times. But what can I say? I'm hoping someone may post a link where similar race of Volvo against BMW and others is done so I can observe some repeatability of results.

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      These posts may come in weird order as I'm awaiting mod approval.





      Oh come on now!

      The iDrive IS head and shoulders above the Volvo Sensus- for a start it's not 100% touch screen, the iDrive controller is so much better, and I say that as someone coming from an X3 to a V60PE. WRT to "letting off the gas" I don't believe it for a second but each to their own, that's your opinion.

      As I previously said - the S60 PE is not a high performance car, it's a fast hybrid. It's a far better option than the 330e not the 340i.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT1_DhjeZ54

      Yes it's a shame the "Volvo Polestar" isn't a true performance car like it used to be but it's become something truly different - a performance hybrid.

    10. #8
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      The polestar S60 is a terrible value, no doubt about that. The regular ol' T6 S60 optioned well is wayyyy cheaper than an equivalently spec'd merc or BMW, that's where the value of the Volvo is, not in the polestar editions
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    11. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Janico View Post
      Isn't that making the whole purpose of polestar obsolete. Lol . Someone said the same thing on the YouTube channel and was reply with the same answer

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      It's just a profit driven idea by Volvo to get people to buy one and be different than BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. It's not a sports car and the polestar just changes it more in the mid range which really doesn't matter for a drag race when pedal is floored.

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      Hmmm... a 4-cylinder Volvo losing out to 6-cylinder German cars. Is that really a surprise?
      CarWow is not anti-Volvo. This is just the way it is with Volvos. I think it's a fun video to watch.
      I personally think that Volvos perform just fine, without Polestar enhancement. The area that Polestar shines best is in their BEVs, not their trying to force more horses out of 4-cylinder engines. ICE-powered Volvos are never going to compete performance-wise with the German cars; Volvo just doesn't care enough to do so, which makes the whole Polestar-ICE thing rather puzzling because the price isn't worth it. What I like about Volvo over the years has been their combination of practicality, high-quality construction, safety, and decent performance at prices that aren't astronomical; unfortunately, Volvos have been approaching and even surpassing the German automakers in price without appreciably increasing those other strengths over the past decade, and that's not good -- and it's where their biggest strength may be in the BEVs moving forward.

    13. #11
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      We have a supercharger, a turbo and electric. The super hands off to the turbo after 3500rpm. Where does the electric fit in? I suspect Volvo was very generous with the max HP/torque number for the T8 Polestar... I can't see how all three motors are contributing to the power band at the same time

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      Quote Originally Posted by visualv View Post
      We have a supercharger, a turbo and electric. The super hands off to the turbo after 3500rpm. Where does the electric fit in? I suspect Volvo was very generous with the max HP/torque number for the T8 Polestar... I can't see how all three motors are contributing to the power band at the same time

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      It's been a while so I don't remember what the power curve for an electric motor is, but the torque is pretty flat - power may be fairly similar (which is why most BEVs don't have a transmission since the RPMs don't matter appreciably.) Given the electric motor just powering the rear axle I can see it adding in just fine at anywhere short of where the power bad for the electric decays.

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      I drive a BMW i3 BEV on a daily basis. The electric motor torque is instant at standstill. I can feel the power start fading after 50mph.
      The T8 volvo claims to be AWD. Is it true the gas engine powers the front wheels and the electric motor runs the rear?
      The batteries on the T8 has a capacity of 12kWH with a range of 18 miles in pure mode. My i3 has an 18kWH battery and a range of 70miles. The Volvo implementation must be really inefficient


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    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by visualv View Post
      I drive a BMW i3 BEV on a daily basis. The electric motor torque is instant at standstill. I can feel the power start fading after 50mph.
      The T8 volvo claims to be AWD. Is it true the gas engine powers the front wheels and the electric motor runs the rear?
      The batteries on the T8 has a capacity of 12kWH with a range of 18 miles in pure mode. My i3 has an 18kWH battery and a range of 70miles. The Volvo implementation must be really inefficient


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      I know people have compared and I don't think it's particularly inefficient, but it does weigh roughly twice what an i3 does, I think, which will make a major difference.

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      Quote Originally Posted by visualv View Post
      I drive a BMW i3 BEV on a daily basis. The electric motor torque is instant at standstill. I can feel the power start fading after 50mph.
      The T8 volvo claims to be AWD. Is it true the gas engine powers the front wheels and the electric motor runs the rear?
      The batteries on the T8 has a capacity of 12kWH with a range of 18 miles in pure mode. My i3 has an 18kWH battery and a range of 70miles. The Volvo implementation must be really inefficient


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      The Volvo T8s are among the most inefficient vehicles in terms of battery usage, yes. It's absurd that Volvo just upped the battery capacity to 11.8 kWh in 2019 from 10.4 prior to 2019 -- not much of an increase. And it was estimated that only 8 kWh was usable in the earlier version, so that may be up to only about 9 or 10 now. I would be eager to hear what new T8 owners are getting with the slightly-larger battery pack. My extensive testing (via multiple test drives of all the T8 models available two years ago) yielded all-electric ranges of only around 8-10 miles in 40 deg F temps. Volvo is advertising 18-19 miles of all-electric range with the 11.8-kWh pack, but I'm highly skeptical of that figure and would be surprised if it's much more than 12 or 14 miles.

      I passed on buying one of Volvo's T8s two years ago and bought a PHEV with a 14-kWh pack that gets 24-25 miles in warm weather and 18-20 miles in cold weather. The new Toyota RAV4 Prime will have a 17.8-kWh pack with 39 miles of all-electric range, according to Toyota (real-world mileage will be learned when it's out later this summer); if true, that will shame Volvo's T8s.
      Last edited by cometguy; 01-04-2020 at 05:39 PM.

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      Volvo cars are heavy, and more so for PHEV's. They are not fast. For pure efficiency, those smaller, less rigid EV or hybrid cars are the best, eg. Leaf, Prius, etc.

      However T8 is a great all-around, energy saving, powerful, convenient, safe and luxury in one car. It is not for competing in race or numbers, but for enjoying.

      I also read at kristian_xc60's instagram page that SPA2 T8 will have about 18Kwh battery and could be better fit for many of you.
      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 01-04-2020 at 04:24 PM.
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      Has nobody put the T8 onto a dyno? We can settle the 400hp debate once and for all by seeing what the powertrain is putting down to the wheels. Dyno numbers don't lie.

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      With all due respect to all knowledge guys in here, but I can bet that aim of Polestar was and still is to get the Polestar engineered cars to be classified as a proper sports car with the likes of m340i, but however, some will not let the Volvo brand breakout that "driving miss Daisy" kinda car box.

      But I do agree that it has not yet reached the level that it could be reckoned with the likes of the AMG's but however I do believe that remains their aim. The Polestar 1 EV is one attempt to that aspiration I guess.

      Once upon a time Mercedes Benz was once seen as old man's cars (in the 90s), look at them now with the AMGs, all that perception is gone.

      Either way, the term sports car is used loosely here I wonder what qualifies/means now

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      Quote Originally Posted by Janico View Post
      With all due respect to all knowledge guys in here, but I can bet that aim of Polestar was and still is to get the Polestar engineered cars to be classified as a proper sports car with the likes of m340i, but however, some will not let the Volvo brand breakout that "driving miss Daisy" kinda car box.

      But I do agree that it has not yet reached the level that it could be reckoned with the likes of the AMG's but however I do believe that remains their aim. The Polestar 1 EV is one attempt to that aspiration I guess.

      Once upon a time Mercedes Benz was once seen as old man's cars (in the 90s), look at them now with the AMGs, all that perception is gone.

      Either way, the term sports car is used loosely here I wonder what qualifies/means now

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      AMG is still making ICE's mostly, while Polestar declared not to do. A real halo Polestar car would be a BEV version of Polestar 1, which I doubt they will build any time soon. P*2 is not fast enough to be a true sporty EV. Maybe P*3 will try to be a fast SUV Coupe.

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      Another case of Volvo's extremely misleading and deceptive marketing department working their magic-Like others have said Straight Pipes review hit the nail on the coffin and they are correct. You can't combine the electric and ICE horsepower numbers. Add that with a curb weight that's prob approaching 4,500 lbs and a super lazy transmission and this result is not surprising at all. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the T6 AWD could keep up with the T8(or even beat it).

      For comparison the new 2019 330i with a measly 255hp turbo 4 hit 60mph in 5.1 seconds and did the 1/4 mile in 13.8 at 100mph in car and driver's recent test vs the Giulia. All while averaging a staggering 42 mpg at 75mph. Quicker and more fuel efficient than a T6 S60 without the supercharger. Nobody is buying the S60 for performance- it's a great luxury commuter car.
      Last edited by silverV60; 01-04-2020 at 05:38 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by silverV60 View Post
      Nobody is buying the S60 for performance- it's a great luxury commuter car.
      Precisely - Or at least they'll be disappointed.

      That being said the PE will be a decent quick "enough" car for overtaking etc, certainly over here anyway where we're drowning in a sea of 2l diesels and will have a slightly sleeper-esque quality to it (ignoring the gold bits).

      Both the Straightpipes video I linked previously and the Doug DeMuro video (old but linked here for completeness) have pointed out that thinking of this as a sports car isn't right.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVQz...WzHw&index=772

      Personally I see the PE as an expensive but rarer alternative to the 330e/530e. Also there is still an issue with driving BMWs - there's a certain image over here of a BMW driver and although it's mainly moved to Audi it can lead to some issues especially if it's a "fast" (ie perceived as a fast) car. This is a double edged sword - people don't often cut you up but they also don't let you in at junctions etc - an issue I never had in my 854t5.

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      Right -- torque is more important than hp when comparing EVs to ICEVs.
      But it also matters HOW the torque is applied to each axle and to each wheel.

      The XC60 T8 weighs a thousand pounds more than does a RAV4 Hybrid, but the RAV4 Prime will weigh much more than the Hybrid with its much-larger battery pack (so probably on a par with the weight of the XC60, which is also of similar size dimensions).

      And, yes, Volvo seems rather schizophrenic about making their cars more sporty, but not quite getting to sporty. My personal take is that the S90 and S60 look more sporty than any 4-door Mercedes (but then I strongly dislike the way that all Mercedes look), and I like the Volvo S90/S60 look much more than the BMW and Audi sedans look (though the exterior appearance of the RS7 is an exception, being much better than the other Audis). Volvo's use of Polestar for upgraded performance of their ICEVs is definitely a statement that they have wanted to try running with the German cars. As far as saying that Volvo hasn't tried to be sporty in the past, I note that the S80 came with a 4.4-liter V8 engine ten years ago -- not a stodgy thing to do in a 4-door sedan! Too bad that they didn't continue that.

      The Polestar 1 is one of the most puzzling things that Volvo has ever done (and yes, I say "Volvo" here because Volvo and Polestar still work very closely together, with the Polestar 1 and Polestar 2 having lots of Volvo stuff inside still), in fact; Polestar 1 is little more than a concept car because so few will be made, and most of us are unlikely to ever see a Polestar 1 on the highway. But Polestar 1 is definitely a sports car -- however you define "sports car".

      I think that Polestar 2 looks very sporty, as well -- it is not at all boring, and looks like an S90 on steroids. I like the looks of the Polestar 2 a lot (the Polestar 1 not so much). I am eager to see how Volvo comes out with its BEVs, starting with the XC40 later this year. I didn't like the looks of the XC40 when it first came out, but the more I see them in person, the more I like the look. Will Volvo sell a lot of XC40 BEVs? And what's next after that for Volvo BEVs? a sedan, a wagon, or a larger SUV? We'll find out soon, I imagine... But BEVs are where Volvo has the best change to create a real performance car that looks sporty, and can thus really compete with the German cars for sales.
      Last edited by cometguy; 01-04-2020 at 06:17 PM.

    25. #23
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      My ideal configuration would be a V60 chassis paired with a Audi TFSI twinturbo V8 engine and the DSG transmission....but that would never happen. I can't stand the look of the new Audi design flow.
      Anyways, do you know of any Dyno done on a SPA T6 or T8 with P* engineering?


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      Completely useless tests. Who is ever going to use these speeds and accelerations? Maybe on a German autobahn. Let's crash the cars into eachother and see who will survive

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      Quote Originally Posted by risrael View Post
      Completely useless tests. Who is ever going to use these speeds and accelerations? Maybe on a German autobahn. Let's crash the cars into eachother and see who will survive
      They’re just another way of judging comparative acceleration in a more real world situation rather than exact best case figures like the manufacturers use and as you can see the Volvo doesn’t do well compared to what they’re claiming.

      However one thing someone’s pointed out on the video - is the Volvo may not have a charged battery which would make a huge negative impact on the outcome.

      Also I have a feeling in the rolling acceleration test I think the Volvo may have hit a limiter at 112mph when the audi starts catching up. I can’t find any info on the PE in the uk but it looks like it may be impacted by Volvo’s max 200kph limiting policy.

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      Quote Originally Posted by amadan View Post
      They’re just another way of judging comparative acceleration in a more real world situation rather than exact best case figures like the manufacturers use and as you can see the Volvo doesn’t do well compared to what they’re claiming.

      However one thing someone’s pointed out on the video - is the Volvo may not have a charged battery which would make a huge negative impact on the outcome.

      Also I have a feeling in the rolling acceleration test I think the Volvo may have hit a limiter at 112mph when the audi starts catching up. I can’t find any info on the PE in the uk but it looks like it may be impacted by Volvo’s max 200kph limiting policy.
      Considering Volvo is not a sports car but in fact just a nice midlevel luxury car that is focused on safety that makes sense. The most shocking test result was the bad breaking distance.
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      M340i for me thanks - that was easy!

      Volvo is not interested in building performance cars and it shows - just ask the CEO.
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      Quote Originally Posted by risrael View Post
      Completely useless tests. Who is ever going to use these speeds and accelerations? Maybe on a German autobahn. Let's crash the cars into eachother and see who will survive
      Those days are long gone when Volvo used to dominate the crash test ratings. That safety image has stuck around thanks to slick marketing but almost every other brand has caught up thanks to new and improving technologies. In fact- the S60 was an IIHS top safety pick for 2019 whereas the 3 series and C class were top safey pick +'s. Same goes for their SUV's. And if safety is the top priority- why the worst braking in the test?

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      Quote Originally Posted by silverV60 View Post
      Those days are long gone when Volvo used to dominate the crash test ratings. That safety image has stuck around thanks to slick marketing but almost every other brand has caught up thanks to new and improving technologies. In fact- the S60 was an IIHS top safety pick for 2019 whereas the 3 series and C class were top safey pick +'s. Same goes for their SUV's. And if safety is the top priority- why the worst braking in the test?
      I mean, Volvo is still one of if not the best, and it's a *good* thing that everyone else is catching up. Still though, quite literally no one has died in a car vs car accident in an XC90 in over 10 years and it is considered still to be the safest car in the world.
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      A pointless, petrol head test with little relevance to everyday life. Good fun and highlighted an issue with simplistic headline hp/torque numbers but who really cares?
      A BMW is 'faster' than a Volvo and more fun to drive. Gosh- who knew
      Apart from anything else sports saloons/cars are about much more than who can get to the next set of traffic lights first !
      Surely you test drive and choose a car that does it for you. For example a DSG box may give quicker and sharper response but in my experience of VAG boxes they are a pain in everyday use; especially in stop/start traffic.
      So all a bit of 'fanboi' fun and not much else for me.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      M340i for me thanks - that was easy!

      Volvo is not interested in building performance cars and it shows - just ask the CEO.
      Are you referring to that interview where he said that all future Volvo models will be limited to 110mph and all that other nonsense? I' was already more than likely done with the brand but that interview definitely sealed it for me. They are going in a totally opposite direction of the average sport-luxury buyer.

      LOL if they did this test after that speed limit thing is implemented the S60 would have shut off half way through. And yes, i realize 99% of the time I would never drive that speed in the real world but if I am paying $50k for a car, why limit what i can do with it? What if i want to autocross it? Just seems very stupid that theoretically a Honda civic can outrun me.

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      Quote Originally Posted by silverV60 View Post
      Are you referring to that interview where he said that all future Volvo models will be limited to 110mph and all that other nonsense? I' was already more than likely done with the brand but that interview definitely sealed it for me. They are going in a totally opposite direction of the average sport-luxury buyer.

      LOL if they did this test after that speed limit thing is implemented the S60 would have shut off half way through. And yes, i realize 99% of the time I would never drive that speed in the real world but if I am paying $50k for a car, why limit what i can do with it? What if i want to autocross it? Just seems very stupid that theoretically a Honda civic can outrun me.
      Yeah, I guess I was thinking of that interview and to be fair, building SUV's is Volvo's bread and butter and is hugely profitable for them. The performance car enthusiast can look elsewhere. It's a perfectly reasonable business case and at least he was being honest so there's that - refreshing.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
      Present: '95 854 T-5R, '06 XC70, '15.5 XC60 T6, '16 V60 P*

    35. #33
      Member Avboden's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2010
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      Michigan
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      2,088
      If you're just gonna bitch about the brand and how you're leaving it stop wasting our time posting about it and leave. Otherwise the rest of us will keep enjoying our cars that do exactly what we bought them for
      2019 S60 T6 Inscription
      1998 V70R. RIP Transmission
      1973 Volvo 1800ES which will someday get a T6 engine

    36. #34
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      May 2019
      Posts
      121
      Quote Originally Posted by Avboden View Post
      I mean, Volvo is still one of if not the best, and it's a *good* thing that everyone else is catching up. Still though, quite literally no one has died in a car vs car accident in an XC90 in over 10 years and it is considered still to be the safest car in the world.
      Yeah I agree with you. It's definitely still one of the safest but being the best is up for debate. We can't cite statistics like that without painting the full picture.

      According to the IIHS statistics which i just pulled up, nobody has also died in the last 10 years in a: Audi Q7 4WD, Mercedes-Benz M-Class 4WD, Lexus RX 350 2WD (years 2011-2015). Still impressive company.

      Volvo XC60 4WD has had 10 Single-vehicle crash deaths since 2011. (0-multi vehicle)

    37. #35
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      May 2019
      Posts
      121
      Quote Originally Posted by Avboden View Post
      If you're just gonna bitch about the brand and how you're leaving it stop wasting our time posting about it and leave. Otherwise the rest of us will keep enjoying our cars that do exactly what we bought them for
      You can't handle valid criticism from a fellow loyal Volvo customer and fan? I guess you are the type of person Volvo is catering to now. Follow the brand blindly even though they are on a path where they don't stand out or lead in any single criteria against the competition. We are just having a lively discussion. Don't take it so personally.
      Last edited by silverV60; 01-05-2020 at 11:14 AM.

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