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    1. #1
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      Has Pilot Assist gotten worse

      My car recently went to the dealer for severe slowness issues with my display. They had the car for a week and apparently had to completely wipe all of the software and load everything again. While doing this I got the November update. Since then I've noticed PA doesn't work very well. I'm using it on the same roads that I always do and I'm finding the car can't go around minor curves that it used to before I went in for service. I don't know if PA "learns" as it's used and the wipe cleared out the memory or something. Or did something change in the November update that's made it less accurate. I always rest my hand on the wheel but I might as well not use PA with the way it's been behaving. Has anyone experienced the same? BTW I have a '17 Momentum.

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    3. #2
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      Did you paperwork indicate what fixes they applied to your complaint of the slowness of the display, other than the unloading and then reloading the software? I wonder if you did not have all the previous software put back on the system? As I understand the software updates are not firmware but updated software versions. Generally my understanding is that future firmware typically has all the previous updates? This is only conjecture on my part. Also I seem to recall that I paid for a specific Pilot Assist upgrade that is listed in the Tech section of accessories.
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    4. #3
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      For what it's worth, I have noticed that PA has gotten better since I drove it home from the dealer.

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    6. #4
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      Thanks guys. I have to go back next month since the fix for the screech sound when hanging up a call wasn't available yet. The work order doesn't specify what exactly was done. It just said software updated but the service adviser was in touch with me while the car was being worked on and he said they had to contact Volvo support and the tech remotely connected to the car and had to wipe everything and load it all again. I was planning to mention the issue with PA when I go back next month but figured I'd ask in case it wasn't just me.

    7. #5
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      My PA was improved after the November update. Better on curves and less oscillation in the lane in general.
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    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Iamhives View Post
      My PA was improved after the November update. Better on curves and less oscillation in the lane in general.
      My new 2020 XC90 T8 PA is better than the 2017 I traded in....

    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by nerv81 View Post
      My car recently went to the dealer for severe slowness issues with my display. They had the car for a week and apparently had to completely wipe all of the software and load everything again. While doing this I got the November update. Since then I've noticed PA doesn't work very well. I'm using it on the same roads that I always do and I'm finding the car can't go around minor curves that it used to before I went in for service. I don't know if PA "learns" as it's used and the wipe cleared out the memory or something. Or did something change in the November update that's made it less accurate. I always rest my hand on the wheel but I might as well not use PA with the way it's been behaving. Has anyone experienced the same? BTW I have a '17 Momentum.
      If does learn, but it's also possible the radar/camera has been knocked slightly out of alignment.

      You can ask your dealer to do a "Camera and Radar Calibration/Alignment" in VIDA.

      Maybe give it a week and if it's not better have the dealer play with it a bit?
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    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by shammyh View Post
      If does learn, but it's also possible the radar/camera has been knocked slightly out of alignment.

      You can ask your dealer to do a "Camera and Radar Calibration/Alignment" in VIDA.

      Maybe give it a week and if it's not better have the dealer play with it a bit?
      Thanks for the info. Didn't know it could be calibrated. I'll def talk to the dealer about it. I had a '19 loaner while they had my car and PA was better than on my '17 so I was hoping the Nov update would improve it. It was annoying to find that it actually got worse. I'm hoping it's an easy fix to at least get it as good as it used to be.

    11. #9
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      I wish there were some configuration settings available to the driver. e.g. A setting to slightly adjust where in the lane the car drives - slightly more left, more right. I'm sure Volvo would consider that too much with potential liability and probably more customer service issues. I would think that things like that are currently able to be effectively adjusted slightly in the calibration settings, just not by the consumer.
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    12. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Iamhives View Post
      I wish there were some configuration settings available to the driver. e.g. A setting to slightly adjust where in the lane the car drives - slightly more left, more right. I'm sure Volvo would consider that too much with potential liability and probably more customer service issues. I would think that things like that are currently able to be effectively adjusted slightly in the calibration settings, just not by the consumer.
      It needs to learn from how human drives, such as leaning on the inner lane mark on a curve, stay away from orange solid line more than white dash line....

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    13. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by nerv81 View Post
      Thanks for the info. Didn't know it could be calibrated. I'll def talk to the dealer about it. I had a '19 loaner while they had my car and PA was better than on my '17 so I was hoping the Nov update would improve it. It was annoying to find that it actually got worse. I'm hoping it's an easy fix to at least get it as good as it used to be.
      I have always been a little less than confident in the performance of PA around 30 degree or better curves. However, I had my windshield replaced after a stone impact and they re-calibrated my sensors as part of that service in late 2019. For what it's worth, it seems to be significantly better than it was before.

    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      It needs to learn from how human drives, such as leaning on the inner lane mark on a curve, stay away from orange solid line more than white dash line....

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      I honestly don't believe that it learns how it places itself in the lane and on curves based on how the driver drives. I wish it would since I prefer to drive further to the left than it naturally positions and it definitely hasn't learnt my preference based on me overiding it regularly. I do expect there are parameters in calibration that could do this but obviously those aren't designed to be adjusted easily.

      I'd be happy to be proved wrong..
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    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by nerv81 View Post
      ....Since then I've noticed PA doesn't work very well. I'm using it on the same roads that I always do and I'm finding the car can't go around minor curves that it used to before I went in for service. ...
      Yes, it has gotten worse. I also have a 2017 Momentum. While the tracking within the lane remains the same (or better), it appears that they "dumbed down" the steering such that it no longer handles the same curves that it used to when I bought the car new. I think this is their way of making us pay attention more.

    16. #14
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      Interesting how we all have different opinions (all valid) and on whether the latest updates are better or worse. In my case the latest update feels much better on curves. But his goes to show that there are lots of variables (roads configuration, markings, driving styles, modes etc etc) which make this a difficult challenge to solve. Like the broader topic of AI in all its forms, its going to be an interesting journey over the next couple of decades.
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    17. #15
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      I'm hopeful from the response that other people found the update improved PA for them. I'm guessing when they did the "full reinstall" of my software that something wasn't set up properly. I'm comparing the behavior on the same roads I take every day so I know for sure mine has gotten worse. I'm waiting for the dealer to call me back to schedule a day next week.

    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Iamhives View Post
      I honestly don't believe that it learns how it places itself in the lane and on curves based on how the driver drives. I wish it would since I prefer to drive further to the left than it naturally positions and it definitely hasn't learnt my preference based on me overiding it regularly. I do expect there are parameters in calibration that could do this but obviously those aren't designed to be adjusted easily.
      haha, mine leans too far left in the lane and prefer it to lean far to the right instead
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    19. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by nerv81 View Post
      I'm hopeful from the response that other people found the update improved PA for them. I'm guessing when they did the "full reinstall" of my software that something wasn't set up properly. I'm comparing the behavior on the same roads I take every day so I know for sure mine has gotten worse. I'm waiting for the dealer to call me back to schedule a day next week.
      It improved the "center tracking", but it reduced the ability to steer into moderate turns. I never had an issue with the center tracking. So this was a major downgrade for me.

    20. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Iamhives View Post
      I honestly don't believe that it learns how it places itself in the lane and on curves based on how the driver drives. I wish it would since I prefer to drive further to the left than it naturally positions and it definitely hasn't learnt my preference based on me overiding it regularly. I do expect there are parameters in calibration that could do this but obviously those aren't designed to be adjusted easily.

      I'd be happy to be proved wrong..
      It does initially do just that. In fact, after you force a calibration update in VIDA the procedure is to go drive, carefully keeping the car exactly between the lanes. It'll basically block PA functionality until that is completed. Technically, that procedure is a camera "alignment" which basically, well, aligns the view the camera has of the road with your actual driving. There's an option to do a similar thing with the radar as well.

      In my car, that's what fixed the "leaning to one side of the lane" issue.

      If you're at all technically inclined and have a few hours to burn, it's quite an easy operation to do yourself at home.

      I'm not exactly sure how much learning continues to happen after this initial alignment calibration, but I have found mine to get much better after a few days of driving carefully after a full software reload or re-calibration. So there's clearly some aspect it continues to adapt with?

      I also briefly did some research into the NDA-only documents describing the APIs for the generation of MobileEye hardware running in these cars... But it seemed like a serious endeavor, and while I'm mildly competent with embedded hardware, it's not my area of expertise, so I didn't follow up further. It does most of its work via the Flexray bus which is expensive and tricky to cheaply connect to but... It also has regular CAN wiring as well, and I suspect with the right API, you'd be able to edit any of its settings. But again, I didn't get that far.

      Personally, I'd love to increase the amount of steering angle it can provide, and turn off the "both lanes must be in view" requirements. Those limitations are all imposed by Volvo, not by the underlying hardware, although to their credit, Volvo provided a better implementation than most of the other vendors using similar/same generation hardware. My girlfriend's Hyundai also has the same generation MobileEye hardware with similar advertised features as the Volvo, but it's far less confident on the road, much more pushy about "hands on the wheel" warnings, and never feels truly "settled" like PA does. It also doesn't take curves nearly as well.

      Other fun facts, this generation of hardware can even understand stop signs and traffic lights! But sadly it'll never be enabled for SPA model cars. Volvo has actually partnered with a new vendor for PA/autonomous driving in the new SPA2/Polestar cars, which looks promising? Plus the XC90 is the reference platform for Uber's self driving endeavors. So clearly Volvo wants to be a leader in this space.
      Last edited by shammyh; 01-10-2020 at 07:13 PM.
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    21. #19
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      It doesn't learn from driver normally. So I said it needs to learn.

      But it will never happen. Next step is L4 driving with new LiDAR system, computer, and software. Volvo will not improve PA2. It is said on their website that S60 P* Engineered model comes with PA3 and human-like curve handling but nobody reported so.

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      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 01-10-2020 at 08:34 PM.
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    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by nerv81 View Post
      My car recently went to the dealer for severe slowness issues with my display. They had the car for a week and apparently had to completely wipe all of the software and load everything again. While doing this I got the November update. Since then I've noticed PA doesn't work very well. I'm using it on the same roads that I always do and I'm finding the car can't go around minor curves that it used to before I went in for service. I don't know if PA "learns" as it's used and the wipe cleared out the memory or something. Or did something change in the November update that's made it less accurate. I always rest my hand on the wheel but I might as well not use PA with the way it's been behaving. Has anyone experienced the same? BTW I have a '17 Momentum.
      Yup, I had this issue with both of my SPA cars after the November update, which somehow screwed up the PA calibration. I had to take both back to the dealership, where they had to recalibrate the PA. That involved taking the car out on the highway with a laptop and running some procedures. Afterwards, all was well with the PA.
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    23. #21
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      Just to update everyone, I took my car to a Volvo dealer close to work only because my normal dealer is 45 minutes from my house and usually has a 2-3 week wait for loaners. Anyway they did the re-calibration and there is no improvement at all. I asked the dealer to look at 2 other issues while my car was there and they didn't address either of them so I'll have to wait till I have some time to go back to my usual dealer. I was told when I went in Dec that the fix for the screeching sound with bluetooth was expected to be released in March so I'll wait till then to get everything resolved at once. Until then I'll just limit using PA to highways when the road is straight.

    24. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by shammyh View Post
      It does initially do just that. In fact, after you force a calibration update in VIDA the procedure is to go drive, carefully keeping the car exactly between the lanes. It'll basically block PA functionality until that is completed. Technically, that procedure is a camera "alignment" which basically, well, aligns the view the camera has of the road with your actual driving. There's an option to do a similar thing with the radar as well.

      In my car, that's what fixed the "leaning to one side of the lane" issue.

      If you're at all technically inclined and have a few hours to burn, it's quite an easy operation to do yourself at home.

      I'm not exactly sure how much learning continues to happen after this initial alignment calibration, but I have found mine to get much better after a few days of driving carefully after a full software reload or re-calibration. So there's clearly some aspect it continues to adapt with?

      I also briefly did some research into the NDA-only documents describing the APIs for the generation of MobileEye hardware running in these cars... But it seemed like a serious endeavor, and while I'm mildly competent with embedded hardware, it's not my area of expertise, so I didn't follow up further. It does most of its work via the Flexray bus which is expensive and tricky to cheaply connect to but... It also has regular CAN wiring as well, and I suspect with the right API, you'd be able to edit any of its settings. But again, I didn't get that far.

      Personally, I'd love to increase the amount of steering angle it can provide, and turn off the "both lanes must be in view" requirements. Those limitations are all imposed by Volvo, not by the underlying hardware, although to their credit, Volvo provided a better implementation than most of the other vendors using similar/same generation hardware. My girlfriend's Hyundai also has the same generation MobileEye hardware with similar advertised features as the Volvo, but it's far less confident on the road, much more pushy about "hands on the wheel" warnings, and never feels truly "settled" like PA does. It also doesn't take curves nearly as well.

      Other fun facts, this generation of hardware can even understand stop signs and traffic lights! But sadly it'll never be enabled for SPA model cars. Volvo has actually partnered with a new vendor for PA/autonomous driving in the new SPA2/Polestar cars, which looks promising? Plus the XC90 is the reference platform for Uber's self driving endeavors. So clearly Volvo wants to be a leader in this space.


      Could you elaborate on how one can complete this procedure "at home" ?

    25. #23
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      I had the update done last Saturday, and the PA seems much smoother to me. It used to bounce back and forth between the lines. It’s much smoother steering now, everything else is about the same.
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    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by nerv81 View Post
      Just to update everyone, I took my car to a Volvo dealer close to work only because my normal dealer is 45 minutes from my house and usually has a 2-3 week wait for loaners. Anyway they did the re-calibration and there is no improvement at all. I asked the dealer to look at 2 other issues while my car was there and they didn't address either of them so I'll have to wait till I have some time to go back to my usual dealer. I was told when I went in Dec that the fix for the screeching sound with bluetooth was expected to be released in March so I'll wait till then to get everything resolved at once. Until then I'll just limit using PA to highways when the road is straight.

      Just another update, it seems like PA has improved in the past week. I've been trying to use it more and guide the steering when I know a turn is coming up. I don't know if there was an OTA update recently or after the reset it needed time to re-learn but I'm happy to say that's it's not only working, but it's now slight better than before. I did have my alignment done last week along with the steering angle reset so I don't know if that made a difference too.

    27. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by nerv81 View Post
      Just another update, it seems like PA has improved in the past week. I've been trying to use it more and guide the steering when I know a turn is coming up. I don't know if there was an OTA update recently or after the reset it needed time to re-learn but I'm happy to say that's it's not only working, but it's now slight better than before. I did have my alignment done last week along with the steering angle reset so I don't know if that made a difference too.
      After the November update, PA improved in turns especially. I had no problems and was fairly happy before but now it's seems to be able to deal with sharper turns without problem. In my case it didn't require any learning period. It just immediately felt better.
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