Excessive oil consumption on V60CC 2015.5 T5 (non E)?
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    1. #1
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      Excessive oil consumption on V60CC 2015.5 T5 (non E)?

      2015.5 V60 T5 (non E engine) Cross country that has 60K. Last year, I had my last "free" oil change at 54K (next one at 64K)..always at dealership.
      Got new tires, and tranny service since then but few weeks ago, I checked the oil and it was down to 1/4 level. This car has never used up oil like that!
      I don't drive hard and stay on flat roads! (I know, boring life!). I filled it up with 1 quart (Castrol synthetic 5w-30) and I have since checked after putting on about 500 miles and there
      was some consumption. No oil drips or sprays noticeable.
      We already has a 2013 Acura MDX with the same issue. We did the dealer "oil consumption" test...going back every 1000 miles (3 times) to get it evaluated and of course, we passed the test because we did not burn more than 1 quart every 1000 miles. (This is garbage because they admit there is a problem and can't do much except "help out" on a ring jobs tc...)
      I have a 04 Pilot with 235K on it and it does not burn an ounce of oil!

      My trusted mechanic says that the thin valve rings are to blame for most of the burning issues and there is no quick fix....He says very common in turbo engines but as long as you keep routinely checking, there will be no engine damage. I don't mind checking but come on, is this what its coming too after you "break in" an engine?

      So I've seen threads about the "E" engine having issues with this but not the "older, tried and true" regular T5 engine. I know this issue seems to be rampant (Volvo, Audi, Acura, VW) now but I just don't get it?!?

      I guess I'm looking for others that may have this issue with 2105.5 or newer cars (OR with this same engine). AND is my only valid recourse is to go and listen to the dealers "wisdom" on this issue?

      thanks!

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    3. #2
      This is a known issue with the Piston Rings. From past threads, Volvo starts with having you come in to monitor consumption. Then tries a breather box replacement. If that doesn't resolve, then they move on to a piston ring job. If your car has been exclusively serviced at Volvo it's whole life, and you're the original owner, Volvo often good wills these repairs.

      Was your car bought new? CPO? Warranty Active?

    4. #3
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      5 cylinder motors from '12 and '13 have a higher incidence of this issue but there have been reports, though not many, of this occurring on the newer 5 cylinder motors. The 6 cylinder motor is not immune to this either apparently.

      I think the only thing you can do is to follow the oil consumption test protocol as recommended by your dealer.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
      Present: '95 854 T-5R, '06 XC70, '15 XC70 T6, '15.5 XC60 T6, '16 V60 P*

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      Quote Originally Posted by MyVolvoS60 View Post
      This is a known issue with the Piston Rings. From past threads, Volvo starts with having you come in to monitor consumption. Then tries a breather box replacement. If that doesn't resolve, then they move on to a piston ring job. If your car has been exclusively serviced at Volvo it's whole life, and you're the original owner, Volvo often good wills these repairs.

      Was your car bought new? CPO? Warranty Active?

      thanks for the reply!!
      Original owner, bought brand new.

    7. #5
      Junior Member RYJS60's Avatar
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      I was told by my mechanic, that many cars / manufactures have the same issue, including Toyota's. I for one, don't like (and I don't) wait for 10k miles to change the oil. I'm old school, when the oil was changed every 3k miles. It was difficult for me to extend to 5k miles. I won't go further than that. I wonder, if the extended miles for changes, has anything to do with the engine consuming oil.
      It used too, on cars in the 80's & 90's

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      The 6 cylinder motor is not immune to this either apparently.
      The issue with the 6 cylinder cars was never piston rings. The 2011 SI6 engine had PCV issues and a few had leaky valve guides as well. Both were fixed by running changes by early 2012.
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    9. #7
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by zenmervolt View Post
      The issue with the 6 cylinder cars was never piston rings. The 2011 SI6 engine had PCV issues and a few had leaky valve guides as well. Both were fixed by running changes by early 2012.
      Here's a newer SI6 with oil burning issues. Apparently it's enough of an issue that Volvo has TJ in place to address it - replacing pistons and rings.

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ng-Replacement
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
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    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by zenmervolt View Post
      The issue with the 6 cylinder cars was never piston rings. The 2011 SI6 engine had PCV issues and a few had leaky valve guides as well. Both were fixed by running changes by early 2012.
      Here's a newer SI6 with oil burning issues. Apparently it's enough of an issue that Volvo has TJ in place to address it - replacing pistons and rings.

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...ng-Replacement
      The TJ they cite, TJ-30021, was for an updated (longer) oil dipstick. It had nothing to do with rings and pistons. The OP in that thread was mistaken on what the TJ covered.

      I don't doubt that the OP had issues or that the pistons and rings in that person's car were replaced, but TJ-30021 is for a dipstick, not rings and pistons.
      I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right.
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    11. #9
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      Here's another example of excessive oil consumption on a newer SI6. I don't know if it's piston rings, PCV, valve guides, etc.

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...70+oil+burning

      OP, here is the TJ that covers later 5 cylinder motors, which may include your car.

      https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...61744-9999.pdf
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
      Present: '95 854 T-5R, '06 XC70, '15 XC70 T6, '15.5 XC60 T6, '16 V60 P*

    12. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      Here's another example of excessive oil consumption on a newer SI6. I don't know if it's piston rings, PCV, valve guides, etc.

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...70+oil+burning
      I'm not sure what you think that proves...

      You seem to think I'm somehow claiming that no SI6 engine has ever burned oil. That's absurd. I'm simply stating that the SI6 service bulletins have not been for rings.

      There are service bulletins related to SI6 oil consumption/loss for the cam gasket, the valve guides, the dipstick, and a software recalibration. These are very different, and far less prevalent, issues than occur in the 5 cylinder and early Drive-E models with suspect rings.
      I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right.
      2012 S60 T6 R-Design | 1998 S70 T5 SE | 1986 944 Turbo

    13. #11
      Yep I have a 5cyl v60CC 2016 (may be a 15.5 manufacture date, i need to look). But mine is consuming oil @ 63k now (started mid 50's). I detailed some stuff here:
      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...11#post7408011

      I am coming up to 4,000 miles since the oil consumption test where they said the oil was fine. You can see the level the oil was at at the end of the oil consumption test in the last photo of my post above. Currently the oil is measuring about one whole XX below the last line on the dip stick. So it's burned quite a lot in only 3,000ish miles (from overfilled to below the measuring xx's).

      I plan to take the car in at 5,000 miles since the last oil change and have the dealer look me in the face and tell me there is not a consumption problem. I'll have them do another consumption test.

    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by PolestarDream View Post
      Currently the oil is measuring about one whole XX below the last line on the dip stick. So it's burned quite a lot in only 3,000ish miles (from overfilled to below the measuring xx's.
      Having trouble visualizing that. How many miles per quart?

    15. #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      Having trouble visualizing that. How many miles per quart?
      I will take a new photo tomorrow morning and upload so you can see the consumption level. I don't know the exact amount it has consumed as I'm not sure how much each XX on the dipstick represents -- and I'm not actively topping it off. I will let the dealer do that once they see how low it is.

    16. #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      Having trouble visualizing that. How many miles per quart?
      This is the oil right after the consumption test @ 60505:



      This is the oil now @ 63898


      So it's been 3393 miles to burn that much oil off.
      Last edited by PolestarDream; 01-21-2020 at 11:04 AM.

    17. #15
      Member msmith's Avatar
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      Wow, that looks like a lot of oil for that kind of mileage. I'm not sure if each XX is a quart or half a quart. Really hoping it's only half a quart. That still looks like its gone through 7 marks.
      In the driveway: 2012 S60 T6 AWD | Black/Beechwood | Premium/Climate/Convenience Packages | BLIS | Sunroof | Active Bending Bi-Xenon | iPd Skid Plate | TFT DIM upgrade (mine), ... Former - 2006 S40 2.4i M56
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      I think a more realistic estimate is about 0.25 quarts per XX. In my experience, the difference between the min and max acceptable range on most dipsticks (for average passenger vehicles) is usually around 1 to 1.5 quarts or about 20% of total capacity.

      So my guesstimate on your consumption is around 1.75 quarts. Which is a consumption rate of ~1900 miles per quart.

      In my opinion, that should not be considered "normal" for a modern engine that is serviced regularly with only 60k miles. I'm sure Volvo (and some people here) will disagree.

    19. #17
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      @budleach. I for one will agree that this is normal for today's turbocharged engines. None of us here likes it but this is what it is.
      In the quest for better fuel efficiency, we're well past the point of zero consumption. This is the new normal.
      Really makes an all-electric car that much more appealing No oil, no transmission, no belts ...
      2012 S60 T5 Savile Gray/Beachwood

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      Quote Originally Posted by Almaz View Post
      @budleach. I for one will agree that this is normal for today's turbocharged engines. None of us here likes it but this is what it is.
      In the quest for better fuel efficiency, we're well past the point of zero consumption. This is the new normal.
      Really makes an all-electric car that much more appealing No oil, no transmission, no belts ...
      I guess "normal" just depends on your experience and what you're conditioned to.

      I have owned exclusively turbocharged cars (Saabs) for the last 16 years. I have never had one that consumed more than 0.5 quart between 6000 mile oil change intervals. Honestly it was probably closer to 0.25 quart consumption between changes, Barely enough to even register on the dipstick. The only time the oil consumption was higher was if there was an obvious problem that needed to be fixed (leaky valve cover gaskets, camshaft solenoid seals, worn out turbo bearings, gummed up PCV system, etc.).

      Due to my personal experience, I know what is possible from a turbo engine, so I am not willing to accept this "1 quart every 1000 miles is normal" claim that so many manufacturers are clinging to these days. Maybe I was just extremely lucky and, as a result, have a biased view on what is "normal".

      If 5% better mpg comes at the cost of 1000% higher oil consumption, I don't want it. Even if you run the numbers and the savings in fuel costs far outweighs the additional oil cost, that's not the point! The risks associated with running low on oil far outweigh the benefits IMO. Of course, nobody asked me.

      I think it really becomes an issue because this increased consumption is never communicated by dealers upfront, only after it is discovered. Most people are accustomed to not having to check their oil level often because engines had gotten so good. When suddenly engines are burning at a rate of 5-10 quarts per 10,000 mile change interval with a 5-6 quart total capacity, it is a recipe for disaster.

    21. #19
      The consumption only started around 50,000 miles. Before that the vehicle did not consume any significant amount of oil.

    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by PolestarDream View Post
      The consumption only started around 50,000 miles. Before that the vehicle did not consume any significant amount of oil.
      Yeah. So are they built such that after so many miles things wear out and consumption starts?
      I'm with you guys, i don't think they should use any oil. Especially in this day and age where people take reliability for granted and do not normally check the oil. Many cars don't even have a dipstick anymore.
      My '91 Nissan Maxima went for 165K miles when I sold it with no oil consumption. The extra fuel mileage they are trying to squeeze out is not worth it in my opinion.
      As ICE cars become more complicated like that EV cars become more appealing.
      2012 S60 T5 Savile Gray/Beachwood

    23. #21
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      With that TJ I posted above it does appear that the problem with the 5 cylinder motors is more widespread than the '12 and '13 motors originally thought.

      While there are lots of anecdotal reports of Volvo goodwilling repairs for original owners, it definitely gives me pause in looking at a used T5.

      There's a 2016 S60 Inscription AWD with 41k miles, nicely optioned, clean carfax, near me asking $16k, which seems like a steal.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
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    24. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Almaz View Post
      My '91 Nissan Maxima went for 165K miles when I sold it with no oil consumption.
      I believe you, but I bet you a donut that there is some guy somewhere who had a '91 Maxima that guzzled oil like a toddler with a juice box.

      When they say "your mileage may vary", they mean it.

    25. #23
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      Mines has been guzzling since about 68K when I caught it nearly 4 years now, sometime late 2016. I bought mine certified from a Volvo dealer with 31K on its clock. It now has 113K just after a rebuild from a belt skip. Do your tensioner, pulley and belts before 100K, don't wait till 120K as recommended.

      But yes, this is now considered a "normal" condition due to the turbo and fuel saving design of piston rings which were meant to make the EPA happy on the bench tests. But now we suffer with checking the dipstick, getting the oil jugs and adding oil. Audi, Subaru and some earlier Toyota engines have the same problem, but not Honda which apparently is the God-sent vehicle with halos and rainbows shooting out of their "Earth Dreams" engine.

      At least we have the boron steel and safety cage..and comfy seat. Good luck and make sure to monitor the oil. It could be worse. We have oil, we have a car, etc.
      2012 S60 T5 FWD & 2013 XC90 AWD

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      Quote Originally Posted by PolestarDream View Post
      The consumption only started around 50,000 miles. Before that the vehicle did not consume any significant amount of oil.
      So that is a clear indication that this engine is not burning oil "by design". If oil consumption was a known trade off for fuel economy when the engine was designed, then these engines would burn oil at a very consistent and predictable rate from day 1.

      When the engine goes 50,000 miles with no significant consumption and then suddenly starts consuming at a rate of 1900 miles per quart, something changed, and rather suddenly. Whether it is stuck piston rings, a leaky seal/gasket, or a plugged up PCV system, it is something that should be recognized as "not normal" and addressed. Even if addressing the issue is simply recognizing that there are no obvious leaks or external causes and the only way to truly find the cause would be an engine tear down to investigate. The cost would be prohibitive and the cheapest solution is to keep adding oil. It is NOT normal, but it is something that can be managed.

      I get why no manufacturer will admit that. Liability. If they can call it "normal" and claim it is by design then they are off the hook for warranty repairs, or even worse, recalls. But calling it normal to my face is insulting to my intelligence.

      I honestly have a hunch these long oil change intervals might have something to do with it. I know lots of people get their oil tested and the lubrication properties are still acceptable after 10,000 miles. Just because an oil still has good lubricity, doesn't necessarily mean it is going to keep things clean. It is all the contaminants and sludge that builds up in the higher mileage oil that are going to gum up and deposit themselves when they come in contact with an especially hot surface (e.g. piston ring grooves). DISCLAIMER: This is just a hypothesis I am presenting for the purposes of discussion, I have zero evidence or testing to support it's validity. Feel free to debate or disregard it.
      Last edited by budleach; 01-22-2020 at 07:56 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Highwayman View Post
      Audi, Subaru and some earlier Toyota engines have the same problem, but not Honda which apparently is the God-sent vehicle with halos and rainbows shooting out of their "Earth Dreams" engine.
      Can't tell how much of that Honda comment is sarcasm, but the Earth Dreams engine really is a pretty great engine in my experience. Painfully dull and boring, but reliable. Then again, my fun and exciting turbo engines have also been pretty reliable in my experience as well (knock wood).

    28. #26
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by budleach View Post
      So that is a clear indication that this engine is not burning oil "by design". If oil consumption was a known trade off for fuel economy when the engine was designed, then these engines would burn oil at a very consistent and predictable rate from day 1.

      When the engine goes 50,000 miles with no significant consumption and then suddenly starts consuming at a rate of 1900 miles per quart, something changed, and rather suddenly. Whether it is stuck piston rings, a leaky seal/gasket, or a plugged up PCV system, it is something that should be recognized as "not normal" and addressed. Even if addressing the issue is simply recognizing that there are no obvious leaks or external causes and the only way to truly find the cause would be an engine tear down to investigate. The cost would be prohibitive and the cheapest solution is to keep adding oil. It is NOT normal, but it is something that can be managed.

      I get why no manufacturer will admit that. Liability. If they can call it "normal" and claim it is by design then they are off the hook for warranty repairs, or even worse, recalls. But calling it normal to my face is insulting to my intelligence.

      I honestly have a hunch these long oil change intervals might have something to do with it. I know lots of people get their oil tested and the lubrication properties are still acceptable after 10,000 miles. Just because an oil still has good lubricity, doesn't necessarily mean it is going to keep things clean. It is all the contaminants and sludge that builds up in the higher mileage oil that are going to gum up and deposit themselves when they come in contact with an especially hot surface (e.g. piston ring grooves). DISCLAIMER: This is just a hypothesis I am presenting for the purposes of discussion, I have zero evidence or testing to support it's validity. Feel free to debate or disregard it.
      Could be oil change intervals. What's interesting is that the change interval in Europe is even longer than what we see here - somebody please correct me.

      My theory is that it's just the engineering of the rings. The strive for lower friction materials (for better efficiency and more power) resulted in a flawed design leading to them breaking down prematurely, necessitating replacement.

      Oil change interval and rings may very well be related. Recall that the oil requirement was changed sometime in 2013 I recall to all synthetic so there must have been some suspicion that oil quality was a contributing factor. Maybe more frequent oil changes would address this issue. It would be great to hear from some owners of this motor that have been sticking to shorter oil change intervals and what their experience has been.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
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      Quote Originally Posted by budleach View Post
      Can't tell how much of that Honda comment is sarcasm, but the Earth Dreams engine really is a pretty great engine in my experience. Painfully dull and boring, but reliable. Then again, my fun and exciting turbo engines have also been pretty reliable in my experience as well (knock wood).
      I would say they're a pretty boring engine. CVTs that drone and have no gut which translate into a dull driving experience. Getting that T5 feedback and torque when the RPMs propel the car make it feel like my previous diesel, the Jetta 2.0 diesel which had 236 torque but felt faster than my T5. This T5 does that at the expense of oil burning. Don't know if I would ever get a hybrid, CVT or electric car for that alone, no feedback and drone.
      2012 S60 T5 FWD & 2013 XC90 AWD

    30. #28
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      We got a CRV last year with the CVT and it is about the most uninteresting thing to drive but it's not my car. It also gets around 32 mpg just driving around town.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
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      Guys, look... I gotta revoke your Man Card if you can't read a dipstick. It's one quart between lines.

      Looks to me like about 1.4 quarts have been consumed over 3393 miles, resulting in 2400 miles per quart.

      My unofficial amateur unsolicited opinion: Disappointing and below average, but not abnormal for a 64k engine of any origin.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      We got a CRV last year with the CVT and it is about the most uninteresting thing to drive but it's not my car. It also gets around 32 mpg just driving around town.
      That's the benefit, mpgs improve and little to no oil consumption. Not knocking Honda for their reliability and fuel efficiency, but to me driving should be somehow enjoyable.

      Back on oil consumption, I first noticed my problem at around 68K back around 2016. Fast forward 4 years and 45K later (I'm at 113K) it consumes about the same, 1 quart per 1k if driven easy, more if driven hard or in traffic. Designers or engineers wanted to make the MPGs ratings set out by the EPA so actually they are partly to blame. Hyundai got sued for it (making the 40 mpgs ads) and I think their older Elantras are oil burners as well, Toyota Camrys with 4 cylinder motors from 2007-2011 also. 2012 Camry corrected piston ring design, whereas Volvo did not. My beater car the 2010 Scion tC also burns at a similar rate (the 2.2 engine which ran from 2005 to 2011).

      EPA at the time was pushing back on auto companies to "make the number". Auto manufacturer engineers made flawed piston ring design decisions as far as going to "less friction" engines to make the number. Audi, Subaru and Toyota are all notorious oil burners in certain makes and year ranges. Volvo not alone.
      Last edited by Highwayman; 01-22-2020 at 02:22 PM.
      2012 S60 T5 FWD & 2013 XC90 AWD

    33. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      Guys, look... I gotta revoke your Man Card if you can't read a dipstick. It's one quart between lines.
      ...unless you have the special Volvo "updated dipstick"

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...=1#post7456421

    34. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
      My unofficial amateur unsolicited opinion: Disappointing and below average, but not abnormal for a 64k engine of any origin.
      My V50 T5 never consumed oil (115k when I sold it) and our S40 2.4i with 117k miles doesn't burn a drop - why should 64k be any different? Just saying...
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      Quote Originally Posted by Veefifty T5AWD View Post
      My V50 T5 never consumed oil (115k when I sold it) and our S40 2.4i with 117k miles doesn't burn a drop - why should 64k be any different? Just saying...
      When things start to wear, oil consumption goes up
      Valve stem seals
      Valve guides
      Piston Rings
      Cylinder bores
      Turbo seals

      Leaks can develop
      PCV
      Valve Cover
      Oil Pan
      Cam seals

      Wear rates are variable
      Quality of oil
      Oil change interval
      Engine operating duty cycle
      Initial condition of the various parts (manufacuring variability)

      Environment varies
      Dusty air
      Cold start
      City or Highway
      Fuel quality

      And then there's the whole ring-sticking thing. Rings can stick, but some engines (most, in fact) will never experience this problem. It's a roll of the dice.

      In mechanical systems, there is a thing called the bathtub curve. The bathtub curve tells us that reliability of a system is poor right at the beginning of life (infant mortality). Immediately thereafter, reliability is good and stable (adulthood). But, towards the end of life, various things start wearing and failing and generally stop performing well in a somewhat random fashion (old age), and reliability is once again poor.

      Siblings -- even twins -- will not have exactly the same life span.

      Hell, my left shoe even wears differently than my right shoe.

    36. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post

      Siblings -- even twins -- will not have exactly the same life span.

      Hell, my left shoe even wears differently than my right shoe.
      Good stuff Dyno !

      I think my right side of the brain works better than my left !

      The left side of the brain is responsible for controlling the right side of the body. It also performs tasks that have to do with logic, such as in science and mathematics. On the other hand, the right hemisphere coordinates the left side of the body, and performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts.

      On the car front I'm curious as to whether oil change frequency will gradually improve my consumption problem so I am switching from every 5K to every 3K. As a car gets old (like a human body), t needs more fresh oil and fuel. As humans we can get away with feeding our bodies junk in adolescence but not in adulthood, hence my family is attempting a change in diet.. Cars deserve better in old age.

      But then there's always going to be the cases where chain smoking alcoholics live to 90 while vegan marathon runners die at 50. No justice, no sense, that's life. Roll the dice...all depends on your gene pool or which date your car was made. Hopefully not on a Monday after the entire car assembly plant malfunctioned or had poor supervision.
      2012 S60 T5 FWD & 2013 XC90 AWD

    37. #35
      Posting not really to bump the thread but to add some more context to the consumption.

      I drove 1000 miles, mostly all highway 60-80mph and it only consumed 1/4th of a quart. The previous pictures I posted were 85/15 city/highway, so it seems the consumption is due to city driving. When I drive in the city I drive pretty grandpa-y and try and eek out as much mpg as I can. So I'm not accelerating hard off the lights and shifting to higher gears asap.

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