XC90 T8 battery life/degradation - what is your experience ?
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    1. #1
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      XC90 T8 battery life/degradation - what is your experience ?

      I have a November 2017 XC90 T8 with Polestar. When I first took delivery of it the suggested range was 21 miles in Hybrid mode and a little more in Pure at startup after a full charge. This range has slowly decreased to the point where today it only gives a 17 mile estimate in Hybrid mode. The car has just under 40k miles on the clock.

      Has anyone else seen this happen with their XC90 ?

      My wife has a March 2018 XC60 T8, albeit with 20k miles compared to my 40k, but her car has always showed 21 mile range and this doesn’t appear to have changed in the last two years. I have no idea what the differences under the hood might be with an XC60.

      Regards

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    3. #2
      Junior Member Catfiend's Avatar
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      Just a question - has the actual range changed or just the suggested range? If it's the latter then it might be nothing more than an update tweaking the algorithm they use for determining the range to be (hopefully) more accurate.
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    4. #3
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      As @Catfriend suggests, range estimate is just that, and can be influenced by software updates. I use range on the IC as an indicator, but especially with a Volvo where we can't always tell what software level we are on or not, it's hard to know how real the actual range is over time, unless you occasionally have a full charge and go on PURE until you hit "empty", with no ICE intervention in-between, and have been keeping a log of all that. That's even too much for me.

      I'd also suggest that climate can have an influence on degradation -- even just seasonal variance some owners see in say depths of winter vs summer where some of that range comes back each year, vs what some early EV owners saw as true hits on their battery life because of vehicles that lived in very hot or cold environments for months/years at a time. Then of course, there is real L-ion battery degradation over time -- they all do it, some more than others, and there is generally a larger drop-off in the early months of battery life, than how it tapers off to a more consistent loss over time from there. I doubt this is your problem or something we as Volvo PHEV owners can effect, but it's also known with L-ion tech that keeping a battery at max charge or close too it, for too long is bad for it's longer term max charge expectancy -- definitely a reason why e.g. with a Tesla, you never want to consistently charge to it's (closer to real) 100% level and let it sit there "unused" for long, and even Apple in their last iOS release put in a whole new set of optional battery charging logic trying to not charge above 80% until closer than you really need it to increase longevity...

      One immediate thought is, doesn't your 2017 have a 9.2kWh battery, whereas a 2018 has 10.4kWh? I think so, and I could be wrong on this additional point, but didn't physical external size of the battery within both cars remain the same as that capacity increased -- meaning Volvo is doing something inside changing cell configuration and/or formation to provide additional capacity, just as they did again with 2020 models like mine with the bump to 11.6kWh? Given that, how Volvo has to create estimates from voltages/amperage/etc., their algorithms for capacity and range will be slightly different, so how good those estimates are could also vary, AND problems/life-expectency/etc may well be different over the longer term because of what "the battery" is really made up of inside. I say those last couple things as a former Tesla owner who had one of the first 90kWh batteries off the line... long story short, but mine was ultimately found defective and replaced because of faster-than-expected degradation, and while I'll never know for sure, interesting thing is it looked the same on the outside and everything I could tell from my owner's POV, but the replacement physically had a different part number than the original did... At least one other owner I connected with on another forum with the exact same battery, built a week earlier than mine, had similar problems ...but owners that took delivery of the same battery a few months later didn't see any more extreme problems like ours and had that new part number. Anyway, different mfgr examples, but battery sizes and perhaps different internal tech may be part of why you are seeing relative degradation differences between the two Volvo you own, even when accounting for different kWh sizes.

      I've thrown out lots of non-specific supposition, and will leave it all at that. I'm not trying to create some conspiracy theory , just offer food for thought as I think you may have been after. Hopefully other 2017 XC90 T8 owners will chime in with their reality, you can compare against. Good luck.
      Last edited by BertL; 01-29-2020 at 03:12 PM.
      Bert

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    6. #4
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Catfiend View Post
      Just a question - has the actual range changed or just the suggested range? If it's the latter then it might be nothing more than an update tweaking the algorithm they use for determining the range to be (hopefully) more accurate.
      Yes, the EV range prediction has been updated several times since 2017...but, folks would rather see an unrealistic range to get a warm fuzzy.

      Similar threads pop up during the winter every year - OMG, my battery is dying.
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    7. #5
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      When i first got my 2019 XC60 T8 Last Feb It showed 18 and put into Hybrid was 20. Was that way for the longest time. Then this Fall (before it got cooler) out of the blue it showed 16 and put into Pure would goto 18. I think the actual distance it will travel is similar. When I took it in to get a "turtle" serviced they said there was an error and updated the system...Still Showed 16/18. My latest hiccup with the Battery, is if I go out and only use like 6 miles, and it shows 10 on the display......When I charge it, it will only charge to 12 or 14.....for that charge, but once I run it all the way down, it will charge back to its new normal of 16.
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    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by flames9 View Post
      When i first got my 2019 XC60 T8 Last Feb It showed 18 and put into Hybrid was 20. Was that way for the longest time. Then this Fall (before it got cooler) out of the blue it showed 16 and put into Pure would goto 18. I think the actual distance it will travel is similar. When I took it in to get a "turtle" serviced they said there was an error and updated the system...Still Showed 16/18. My latest hiccup with the Battery, is if I go out and only use like 6 miles, and it shows 10 on the display......When I charge it, it will only charge to 12 or 14.....for that charge, but once I run it all the way down, it will charge back to its new normal of 16.
      Wow, great confirmation that Volvo has a lot of refinement to still do on their algorithms -- making fantasy a little more like reality.
      Bert

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    9. #7
      Junior Member Dilinger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by flames9 View Post
      When i first got my 2019 XC60 T8 Last Feb It showed 18 and put into Hybrid was 20. Was that way for the longest time. Then this Fall (before it got cooler) out of the blue it showed 16 and put into Pure would goto 18. I think the actual distance it will travel is similar. When I took it in to get a "turtle" serviced they said there was an error and updated the system...Still Showed 16/18. My latest hiccup with the Battery, is if I go out and only use like 6 miles, and it shows 10 on the display......When I charge it, it will only charge to 12 or 14.....for that charge, but once I run it all the way down, it will charge back to its new normal of 16.
      Probably the battery, still charges to the same capacity, but the algorithm shows limited range. I believe a battery charge indicator would be useful, regardless of range.

      That way you could just see the percentage of charge or the kWh charged.

      Volvo definitely needs an upgrade in their Hybrid drivetrain to keep up their position against competition.
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    10. #8
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      MY16, ~60K KM mileage, charge regularly two times a day, probably lost one KM range after four years, not too bad.

    11. #9
      Junior Member Conradi's Avatar
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      I’ve one of the first T8’s - november 2015 - and drive a lot electrical, always in Pure.
      No degradation what so ever....
      2016 XC90 T8 Inscription

    12. #10
      Member Gary-16-Xc90's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Conradi View Post
      I’ve one of the first T8’s - november 2015 - and drive a lot electrical, always in Pure.
      No degradation what so ever....
      +1. My MY16 was an Oct. 2015 build. No degradidation at all. Recent software (TSU) update on 17 Jan. Updated BECM.


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    13. #11
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      My car is also 2017 T8 and I noticed the same degradation from 21 miles down to 16 in hybrid. If it was a software trick I wondered why Volvo did that, that would certainly raise concerns among owners or the estimate was not accurate at all in the first place and they had to correct it by software?


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    14. #12
      Member Gary-16-Xc90's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by drzdbd View Post
      My car is also 2017 T8 and I noticed the same degradation from 21 miles down to 16 in hybrid. If it was a software trick I wondered why Volvo did that, that would certainly raise concerns among owners or the estimate was not accurate at all in the first place and they had to correct it by software?


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      Not sure to what the “software trick” refers.

      In my case, the display of hybrid started at 95-100% charge after preconditioning. A mile down, the hybrid charge drop between 65-75% charge. With the BECM update, it no longer does that.

      I view that as a refinement or bug fix, not trickery.




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    15. #13
      Junior Member snow4me's Avatar
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      My MY17 T8 also now reads 16 after a full charge instead of the 18 like it used to say. I've got a service appointment in a few weeks to have it checked out.
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    16. #14
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      People with 2016-2017 cars, there is nothing to check out - you are wasting your time thinking and worrying about it. The fact is Volvo showed an overly optimistic number when these came out. Google the electric range for your vehicles. Volvo and EPA will show the updated, more accurate numbers. There is no way in hell a 2016-2017 XC90 with a 9~kWh battery will EVER do 21 miles in Pure or Hybrid modes. Even the new 2020 XC90 isn't even rated for that much electric range. Volvo is posting more truthful numbers now, and sorry to say they are less than when you bought it. But your actual range has not changed - you have never gotten 21 miles out of your battery unless you're driving a constant 20 mph, not stopping, and with climate control off... which would never happen in the real world.

    17. #15
      Member Gary-16-Xc90's Avatar
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      I don’t worry about range either. It is what it is - based on the battery size, OAT, driving behaviors, terrain, et al.

      My response was not about “range” per se. I responded to the gist of the thread’s title which was the hybrid battery’s degradation which I interpreted as the battery’s ability to attain a full 100% usable charge (7.4 kWh) - discounting the reserve.

      Like I said, I have not noticed any degradation.


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    18. #16
      Junior Member Conradi's Avatar
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      XC90 T8 battery life/degradation - what is your experience ?

      Quote Originally Posted by 392DCGC View Post
      People with 2016-2017 cars, there is nothing to check out - you are wasting your time thinking and worrying about it.
      .......
      There is no way in hell a 2016-2017 XC90 with a 9~kWh battery will EVER do 21 miles in Pure or Hybrid modes.
      My 2016 T8 never had any EPA miles range, while I live in Europe
      This topic is about degradation and the range is still the same, except seasonal differences, not in EPA, NEDC or WLTP but real-live.
      Last edited by Conradi; 02-01-2020 at 02:31 AM.
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    19. #17
      Junior Member tillsbury's Avatar
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      My XC90's range has been all over the place in the three and a half years since I got it. Maybe 20-25km to start with, but at one point after garage played with it a bit I was getting regularly 30km (when car two years old). That all stopped after the two-year service when they applied software upgrades, then everything went downhill and was down to little more than 10km range. Has been in several times since then, now back to 20km range but that's still not good enough. Apparently they did a full discharge test on the battery and it was showing as 90% capacity, which is within what Volvo expect. All sorts of things have been changed from drive motors to HV controllers, pretty much the entire drive train it appears apart from the battery.

      Suggested range when starting up varies between 36 and 41km. The suggested figures are laughable, I struggle to get half of what it thinks it will do. But it seems a lot of that is to do with software rather than anything else.

    20. #18
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      On my T8, in this winter, if I only drives <10 miles then charge it overnight, next day it shows much less range number, such as 13miles. Normally I drive about 20 miles in hybrid then charge it overnight, then I see 16 or 17 miles range in hybrid mode.

      I see 16 this winter more often now. It was 18 the first year. Then 17 after some software update in the second year.

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