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    1. #1
      Junior Member Catfiend's Avatar
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      Do any of you track your actual all electric range?

      A recent thread about the suggested range left me wondering how much range people are getting on electrons only. I realize that it's dependent upon many factors (temperature, driving style, topography, phase of the moon, etc...) but some data is better than none as long as you remember the caveats.
      2001 V70, 2.4T White/blond (outgoing)
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    3. #2
      Junior Member RootDKJ's Avatar
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      I don’t. I bought my T8 because it has the most power & technology available. Not to hypermile and track my kilowatt miles. No thanks. That gets exhausting


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      2019 Bursting Blue XC60 R-Design T8
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    4. #3
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Catfiend View Post
      A recent thread about the suggested range left me wondering how much range people are getting on electrons only.
      From most threads, the average T8 owner drives in HYBRID mode (easy option).

      There isn't an easy way to track EV-only miles and only the hypochondriacs appear to be worried about estimated range (not actual).
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

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    6. #4
      Junior Member Catfiend's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      From most threads, the average T8 owner drives in HYBRID mode (easy option).

      There isn't an easy way to track EV-only miles and only the hypochondriacs appear to be worried about estimated range (not actual).
      I probably should have said, "check" instead of "track". My thought was that the battery is warrantied for, what, 8 years? And if it degrades by some amount X, maybe 20% or 30%?, during that time they'd need to replace it. But how would we be able to show that it had deteriorated? If we occasionally log things it might back up a case that the battery needed to be replaced. Or maybe they have some test they can run on it, but you'd still need to know to have them check it.
      2001 V70, 2.4T White/blond (outgoing)
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    7. #5
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      I check mine (dont track or keep a log)... I bought the T8 so I can stay on battery as long as possible....Most of my driving is within a 20 mile range....and I usually am in PURE. I dont baby it when I am driving it, but I dont bag it either. In the summer, can get around 25 miles on PURE....and right now that it is cooler, its around 20 miles...thats with the steering wheel heat on.....and not the extra heater...Set the cruise to around 60-65mph .It doesn't get the cold here in Maryland...Temps hover around 32F in the morning (winter)
      2019 XC 60 T8 Inscription Osmium Grey
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    8. #6
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      OP, warranty in CA is 10 years on the complete powertrain; IIRC Washington State follows most or all of our CARB standards, so you would have 10 years on your complete hybrid powertrain including battery as well. Regardless, with the many variables, I’m not aware of any mfgr that states in written form the hybrid/BEV battery (or even something like a smartphone’s L-ion battery) is warranted to have x% remaining over some period of time. Rather, the couple I’ve read in detail say something more to the effect “the battery will have some natural loss, but should last the lifetime of the vehicle” (whatever that is. ) They then go on to tell you things you shouldn’t do that will void the warranty or potentially decrease that max capacity charge. IMO, mfgrs certainly have a number of internal thresholds to help them come to a conclusion something is going wrong before their design estimates say it should, but that’s not something available to us as owners, and I suspect not even at a dealer level to make that sort of call on their own. I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong or they are hiding anything, but they are keeping some of their internal decision criteria to themselves for flexibility, no different than other products or auto mfgrs who may have a product that hasn’t failed “hard” (if you know what I mean), but may rather go outside of specs they consider acceptable, where maybe they should replace it before it does die or become completely unacceptable performance-wise from a customer-sat —not legal— reason.

      In my situation with my former Tesla, before ordering I had read on forums of some previous gen models possibly having battery life issues and lots of speculation what climate may have on battery life from multiple mfgrs. I was of course new to the whole EV thing, skeptical, had range anxiety as a new-to-BEV owner, knew Tesla was a startup that had some warning flags for that reason alone, and I was gonna sell both of my ICE to put all my dollars into a single new $100K+ automobile with leading-edge technology nobody else could fix, etc... So, being how I am as a more factual kinda guy, and someone that spent a career dealing with problem determination, risk mitigation, contract negotiaton, P&L and customer sat , I created a simple spreadsheet where I would occasionally log a few things — typically every 2-4 weeks, and after my next charge when something unique happened, like after each OTA or Service Center-applied software update went onto my car. My spreadsheet had date, my location low and high temps for the day (always from the same weather site), current mileage, “rated range” at both 90% and 100% charge depending what I last charged to (think just “remaining miles” in Volvo terms you see on the IC below the right circular display) and current software level (Tesla, unlike Volvo, makes that easily accessible to the owner.) I also kept a comments column for anything else going on...

      Yes, that was overkill to many people and folks here will poo-poo the trouble I went to, but it was honestly not a lot of work to update a row on the spreadsheet via my iPhone or iPad every now and then. I then had my own facts to line-up (or not) with what I had spent months reading in the forums from others with more experience than me. It was a great way for me to learn using my own data points. What it also did was confirm the whole seasonal temperature variance thing other owners had suggested may be at play and I had not seen for myself, and several times when software level updates caused rated range to take an immediate dip (because algorithms changed that Tesla didn’t say anything about in their release notes). Unexpectedly, but more importantly over time, a trend started to appear with a more rapid decrease in rated range my Model S would charge to at a given % charge. It’s what caused me to politely begin showing my data just a few months into ownership each time I went in for Service, and asking “is something wrong?”. It is ultimately what reinforced what I thought was going on when Tesla out-of-the-blue after ignoring me for more than a year, decided to replace my $27K traction battery when I was in for annual service. Tesla, unlike Volvo, have an enormous amount of data that is continually transmitted from every vehicle back up to the mother-ship — if you’re parked or on-the-road for it’s entire life, so I suspect some HQ analysis behind the scenes over time saw my VIN hit some “unacceptable” threshold, and it was flagged when my car was in for annual service.

      I’m not paranoid, just see myself as accepting this hybrid/BEV tech is new and mfgrs are trying to do their best, but they are ALL learning. Hybrids/BEV are mechanically simpler on one-hand than an ICE, but they are far more complex with software that controls it all. No major mfgr has decades of experience in the design/build/support of electric vehicles like they may have with an ICE. With my new T8, I have a similar spreadsheet to what I kept with my Tesla — main difference is I have a Hybrid and PURE column to track remaining miles after a full charge. My spreadsheet IIRC has just two rows in it in my first month of ownership — a baseline for the morning after I brought it home and first charged it overnight, and last week from the morning after it came back from service when a TSU was applied (it of course charged overnight.) There was no change in anything, but I’ve started to collect my history. I don’t expect there to be a long-term problem with my T8, but I didn’t with my Tesla either. If nothing else, the data points I collect for myself, will be SO MUCH BETTER to confirm what I have learned from others and simply confirm what I expect. If I do ever think I have an issue, that data will be SO MUCH BETTER than the general declarations from folks coming on forums like this so often, that something has gone wrong or crys for help with only generalizations where no one can offer any real guidance. Would I suggest you as a soon-to-be new T8 owner start your own log? NO, unless its because you’d like to see how your own T8 lines-up to some of the observations and declarations others on forums like this have made and will keep making over time, or you’re just a bit wary with it being your first hybrid and electric vehicle technology.
      Bert

      Present: ‘20 XC60 T8 Inscription
      Past: ‘15 Tesla S90D; ‘14 SLK250; '13 RX450h; ‘09 335i; ‘06 RX400h; ‘02 SC430; ‘99 RX300; ‘95 SC300; ‘91 Legend...

    9. #7
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Catfiend View Post
      I probably should have said, "check" instead of "track".
      While not a complete picture of your battery's health, I've posted before about about monitoring battery SoC and voltage drop over time. Here's a snapshot from my T8 a few mins ago:

      20200129_213150.jpg

      They're useful static heuristics (when measured after a full charge) that slowly decrease as the battery degrades. Dynamic measurement (unknown Volvo-specific PIDs) is required for a complete health check.
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    10. #8
      Junior Member Catfiend's Avatar
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      @BertL, thanks, that's the sort of thing I was thinking of I wondered if I was misremembering but a check shows that at least some companies do warrant to a percentage, but Tesla and a few others specifically do not. Most seem to be a loss of 25%-40% over the life of the warranty, which sounds like a lot for a short range battery like the T8's. I didn't find any specific percentage for Volvo's warranty. I did find that it's 10 years/150,000 miles for California emissions states. Might well include Washington but I'd have to check.

      I might just have to put together a spreadsheet when we get our car.
      2001 V70, 2.4T White/blond (outgoing)
      2020 XC60 T8, Inscription White/blond (incoming - sometime)

    11. #9
      Junior Member Op911's Avatar
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      BertL, you seem extraordinarily well informed, but I'm not sure if you are aware that you can export data from the Volvo On call app in CSV format tracking your last 100 days or so of driving data. You can then get a spreadsheet documenting exactly where you started and stopped for each trip; # of kilometers driven, fuel consumed, and kilowatt-hours consumed / regenerated by the system.
      (This may help your spreadsheeting!). It will not report the reported remaining range after a drive though - you will still have to do that manually.

      I also tried at one point using OBDFusion paired with a bluetooth OBD dongle - a similar app presumably to what Lamarguy shows in his image above. The neat thing is a logging function which you can use which also spits out a datafile you can spreadsheet showing you how many amps and volts
      (and hence watts) the system is consuming at any point in time. I have observed that the system would drain the battery down to ~22% SOC in hybrid mode before going into a hold charge mode, vs 17% SOC in pure mode. (not sure if this jives with what others have observed if using such an app)

      Too bad that there is no OBD parameter that you can use to tell you about your battery pack health. I suspect you could try to infer that by looking at number of kilowatt-hours required to charge your battery from completely empty to full and looking at if this changed over the course of a few years, but that could be foiled if Volvo has battery logic that has a buffer that gets eaten into as the battery ages to make it look like you haven't lost any battery health. Some chargers like the Juicebox (which is what I have) do tell you exactly how much you consumed in each charging sessions and let you export data for kilowatt-hours expended with each session.
      2018 XC90 T8 Momentum, Crystal White, B&W, Momentum Elite package (HUD, Climate, Vision, Convenience)

    12. #10
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      @Catfriend, I agree 25%-40% loss over the warranted time would be horrible in even the worst circumstance -- frankly seeing those numbers in someone's T&C would make me question the mfgrs confidence level in their own product and what my life owning it towards the end of warranty may be like. It's almost more of a negative putting the nums in writing than not from my POV; Similar to how when I research new vehicles, I consider what a mfgrs "platinum" (best) extended warranty costs for 4-years post warranty and what their exclusions still may be, even if I have no intention buying it. It gives me a feel of the mfgr's longer-term confidence for reliability of their product and cost to maintain. IIRC, you like keeping your vehicles longer and you have your new T8 on-order, but next time around, check both of those things out with your analysis. Interesting stuff, if for nothing else but being an indicator or another data point (Volvo came out well with my T8), especially when you see a couple of the German brands that people always say cost a lot to maintain, or may become unaffordable for the Average Joe/Jane the longer you own one, and some items (like convertible components) that remain excluded even in their best mfgr-provided extended warranty. Humm, humm, humm.

      @Op911, yes thanks on the VoC CSV option -- forgot about that, so I'll need to give it a quick look again, but as you say, remaining charge (or approx current max charge) is a key measure I like to jot down given past experience. Years back I fiddled with some hacked methods Tesla enthusiasts came up with that intercepted the communication between my Model S and the mothership, but it was beyond what even my X-geekier-self was interested in for long. OTOH, one of these days I'm gonna try the whole OBDII thing with my T8 -- just to see what there is to see. Always something to explore!
      Bert

      Present: ‘20 XC60 T8 Inscription
      Past: ‘15 Tesla S90D; ‘14 SLK250; '13 RX450h; ‘09 335i; ‘06 RX400h; ‘02 SC430; ‘99 RX300; ‘95 SC300; ‘91 Legend...

    13. #11
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      I've grown past the skimpy T8 range a couple years ago. To me it is more of an annoyance than anything else at this point. We need to move past this into at least a 50 mile range or preferably a 300 mile range xc60 electric. This is taking forever.
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    14. #12
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      The warranty of 8 or 10 years does not apply to the capacity of the battery it is normal that after 6-7 years the capacity begins to decline.
      Replacing the batteries is not cost effective, the current price for the Volvo XC60 is around $ 16,000 or even more drastic example for Audi eTron which is totally electric SUV , battery replacement is 25,000 Euros
      I wonder who will pay 25,000 EUR to replace batteries in an 8 year old car ?

      There's a good article about
      https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...nd_the_battery
      Last edited by BigBang; 01-30-2020 at 10:19 AM.
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    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      The warranty of 8 or 10 years does not apply to the capacity of the battery
      Not entirely true.

    16. #14
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Not entirely true.
      Great news, so after 7 years of use and approximately 60,000 miles, the battery capacity is 100%. It's something new in the world of batteries

      Hope there is an explanation somewhere regarding the battery capacity for this 8 year warranty

      http://volvo.custhelp.com/app/answer...ttery-warranty

      T8 Hybrid Battery Warranty

      The hybrid battery can be expected to last as long as the useable lifetime of your Volvo. Also, for added protection, the warranty on the hybrid battery is extended to 8 years or 100,000 miles (whichever comes first) under the Federal Emissions Warranty (10 years/150,000 miles for CA emission warranty states).
      Last edited by BigBang; 01-30-2020 at 10:53 AM.
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    17. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Not entirely true.
      Great news, so after 7 years of use and approximately 60,000 miles, the battery capacity is 100%. It's something new in the world of batteries [IMG class=inlineimg]https://forums.swedespeed.com/images/smilies/bow.gif[/IMG]

      Hope there is an explanation somewhere regarding the battery capacity for this 8 year warranty

      http://volvo.custhelp.com/app/answer...ttery-warranty

      T8 Hybrid Battery Warranty

      The hybrid battery can be expected to last as long as the useable lifetime of your Volvo. Also, for added protection, the warranty on the hybrid battery is extended to 8 years or 100,000 miles (whichever comes first) under the Federal Emissions Warranty (10 years/150,000 miles for CA emission warranty states).
      I quoted a specific part of your post. That part is not entirely true. Read it again. Notice I left out the part about declining capacity (as well as your usual mention of Audi, even though totally irrelevant)

    18. #16
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      State exactly what is not true in my post

      What happens to batteries if someone goes 100k miles in 5 years and loses their warranty

      I mentioned Audi because of the batteries and the price of them
      Which idiot will pay 25,000 EUR for battery replacement after 8 years. What is the value of that car after 8 years when the battery warranty expires or maybe sooner. The same thing will happen with every Volvo model that is 100% electric
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    19. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      State exactly what is not true in my post

      What happens to batteries if someone goes 100k miles in 5 years and loses their warranty
      -I already did. I quoted specifically what is not true. I'll add I'm speaking for US and Canada. It might be different elsewhere.
      -The warranty expires at 100,000 miles. Nothing hard to understand about that. Doesn't matter if thats in 2 years or 6 years.
      Last edited by Tech; 01-30-2020 at 04:19 PM.

    20. #18
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Not entirely true.
      I found the answer


      Last edited by BigBang; 01-30-2020 at 05:18 PM.
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    21. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Tech View Post
      Not entirely true.
      It means that the warranty applies to the capacity of the battery
      Correct. To an extent.

    22. #20
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      Hey there, I am typically more of a lurker but figured I would chime in on this one.

      I could be wrong but my understanding is that when we are using the battery we do not have access to the entire battery. In the case if my 2018 T8 it has a 10.4kWh battery but we actually only get access to about 7.5kWh or so. This is to prevent the battery from wearing out quickly like a cell phone battery would (where you get access to 100% of the battery). By never entirely depleting the battery it degrades a little slower. I think it also manages the parts of the battery that are being used so when those cells wear out then it will provide chess to other cells that were previously protected. Like anything there is no doubt that it will wear out and range will eventually decrease. I think that using this method is what has Volvo thinking the battery will last “the life of the vehicle”. Just my two cents, if anyone else knows otherwise feel free to correct as necessary.

    23. #21
      Junior Member Op911's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      I found the answer



      Woah.
      Battery capacity of 56% of original capacity is still considered OK...
      2018 XC90 T8 Momentum, Crystal White, B&W, Momentum Elite package (HUD, Climate, Vision, Convenience)

    24. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Op911 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      I found the answer



      Woah.
      Battery capacity of 56% of original capacity is still considered OK...
      After 8 years or 100,000 miles, I'd say that's pretty fair..

    25. #23
      Junior Member stocis's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BigBang View Post
      The warranty of 8 or 10 years does not apply to the capacity of the battery it is normal that after 6-7 years the capacity begins to decline.
      Replacing the batteries is not cost effective, the current price for the Volvo XC60 is around $ 16,000 or even more drastic example for Audi eTron which is totally electric SUV , battery replacement is 25,000 Euros
      I wonder who will pay 25,000 EUR to replace batteries in an 8 year old car ?

      There's a good article about
      https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...nd_the_battery
      Audi fans maybe ?
      I've googled a bit and found that the xc90 the replacement battery cost/install is 10.000 euro.
      Current: 2020 Volvo XC60 R-Design, 2018 Volvo XC40 R-Design
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    26. #24
      Junior Member BigBang's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by stocis View Post
      Audi fans maybe ?
      I've googled a bit and found that the xc90 the replacement battery cost/install is 10.000 euro.
      ONLY battery 12,600 $

      https://www.volvopartswebstore.com/p.../32223588.html

      and the discount price, the regular price 16,299$

      Without installation and other components
      Last edited by BigBang; 01-31-2020 at 06:44 AM.
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