Wax vs Ceramic, or How I Went From Old School To New School
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    1. #1
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      Wax vs Ceramic, or How I Went From Old School To New School

      I've always been an old school carnauba wax guy when it comes to paint protection. I never favored the "glass like" look of ceramic nano coatings. This all changed, and I became a ceramic convert, after discussing ceramic coatings with Nxt Level Detailing in Tustin CA (@nxtleveldetail). They convinced me they could apply a ceramic coating that would deliver the protective values ceramics are famous for, and match my old school luster preference. Over a three day period, they completed a two step paint correction process and then applied a coating of Feynlab Ceramic V2. The car looks brand new, and the ceramic coating is so hydrophobic that nothing sticks it. Road grim and air pollution dust just roll off.

      The paint correction process involves five basic steps: a decontamination wash, followed by a clay bar treatment, then an abrasive compound to remove clear coat swirls, then a polish and finally the application of the ceramic nano coating. This is very labor intensive, with NxtLevel working one panel on the car at a time. They have an electronic device that measures the depth of the clear coat so they can monitor how deep they can go in removing swirl marks and scratches. On my hood I have a couple of fairly deep scratches that are all the way through the clear coat. They could not remove those, but after their overall treatment, you can hardly see them. This level of paint correction performed by a professional is expensive, prices vary but in Los Angeles this level of service ranges between $1,200-$2,000.

      They also gave me the level of "luster" I wanted, by controlling the top coat they use. The results look more like wax then the "glass layer" I've seen on some ceramic coated cars, and that is what I requested. The car looks amazing, like it just came off the showroom floor, and my car is four years old. Besides looking great, the car finish sheds everything. I would say it accumulates road and air pollution grime at a rate about about 1/3 less than with my previous wax treatments.

      I am new to ceramic coatings so I cannot compare the performance of Feynlab products to others, here is the product description: https://www.feynlab.com/product/feyn...mic-version-2/

      Going ahead, I'll be monitoring the long term performance of this product and will post some impressions along the way.

      NXT Level Detailing by Jeff Reeb, on Flickr

      Untitled by Jeff Reeb, on Flickr
      Last edited by OscarII; 02-10-2020 at 02:59 PM.

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    3. #2
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      Look great, but this is 13 year old paint using only a can of $12 Mequiars all it`s life in natural light. Not studio light setup for camera work.
      Attached Images Attached Images

    4. #3
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      Looking good! I'm doing a ceramic coating on my pickup right now. Figured I would experiment with that first prior to applying it on the Polestar. For now I have Wolfgang acrylic sealant on it that seems to work well.
      2016 V60 Polestar - rebel blue
      2002 Sierra Denali

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    6. #4
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      Ceramic is worth it, IF you have the right detailer. Ceramic and Film is even more crazy
      06R Custom Electric Blue Silver
      07R Magic Blue - Sold
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    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Thommykent View Post
      Look great, but this is 13 year old paint using only a can of $12 Mequiars all it`s life in natural light. Not studio light setup for camera work.
      I totally agree, your car looks great!

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Driver View Post
      Ceramic is worth it, IF you have the right detailer. Ceramic and Film is even more crazy
      Yes, film is very popular. Definitely prevents road rash!

    9. #7
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      + the self healing properties against swirls, that said Feyne Labs (To my knowledge) is the only one that offers a self healing coating. Either way, looks great, use a ph neutral soap for washing and it will last for years easily.
      06R Custom Electric Blue Silver
      07R Magic Blue - Sold
      04 Bonatti Gray Rover Disco HSE
      09 Iridium Silver SLK55 AMG P30 Edition

    10. #8
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      Ceramic does have merit. I would like an explanation of self healing properties, does it melt and smooth out in the sun? ( sounds like marketing song and dance) . The new buzz word in the last three years is "paint correction" which is nothing more than machine polish with someone who knows what they are doing. There`ll be lots of "paint correction" business in the next few years, after people have used waterless wash on their cars over the coming years.

    11. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Thommykent View Post
      Ceramic does have merit. I would like an explanation of self healing properties, does it melt and smooth out in the sun? ( sounds like marketing song and dance) . The new buzz word in the last three years is "paint correction" which is nothing more than machine polish with someone who knows what they are doing. There`ll be lots of "paint correction" business in the next few years, after people have used waterless wash on their cars over the coming years.
      Spot on.

      I have yet to see Feyne labs product in person but film/PPF DOES heal under heat. I never like using the term corrected but more of the terms but the market is so saturated with it, the real terms are cutting, polishing and jeweling (Also prep pololish and water polishing). Check out some YT videos of PPF self healing under heat, all my rides have a full nose and headlights done. It's amazing how much it stops.
      06R Custom Electric Blue Silver
      07R Magic Blue - Sold
      04 Bonatti Gray Rover Disco HSE
      09 Iridium Silver SLK55 AMG P30 Edition

    12. #10
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      OP, Your V60 looks fantastic! I had my car ceramic coated last year. I am pleased to report that after 8 months the shine is still amazing and water rolls off the car like magic!

      Last edited by Rebel Yell; 02-10-2020 at 06:47 PM.
      Rebel Yell • 2017 Volvo S60 Polestar • Rebel Blue The rebel yell was a battle cry used by Confederate soldiers during the American Civil War. Confederate soldiers used the yell during charges to intimidate the enemy.

    13. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Driver View Post
      Spot on.

      I have yet to see Feyne labs product in person but film/PPF DOES heal under heat. I never like using the term corrected but more of the terms but the market is so saturated with it, the real terms are cutting, polishing and jeweling (Also prep pololish and water polishing). Check out some YT videos of PPF self healing under heat, all my rides have a full nose and headlights done. It's amazing how much it stops.
      Is the Feyne product a film? I could see how that could self heal.

    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Thommykent View Post
      Is the Feyne product a film? I could see how that could self heal.
      Surprisingly no, it's a silica-based coating like the rest. I've not seen in person but I'm sure it does work for very light wash marks. I've seen this tech used in Carpro's immortal which is pretty crazy but more than PPF'n a whole car.

      https://www.feynlab.com/product/self-heal_17/
      06R Custom Electric Blue Silver
      07R Magic Blue - Sold
      04 Bonatti Gray Rover Disco HSE
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    15. #13
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      FEYNLAB® SELF HEAL PLUS
      Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 11customer ratings

      Certified installers only
      Click here to find your nearest installer
      Developed with one clear goal: to keep dark paint looking its absolute best– long-term. Heal Plus eliminates micro defects and light swirls which typically degrade finishes over time.

      Professional Grade: Feynlab Trained & Authorized Installer Use Only.

      Installed price starting at $2499 depending on the amount of paint correction required.

      Damn!! Not cheap!

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Thommykent View Post
      FEYNLAB® SELF HEAL PLUS
      Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 11customer ratings

      Certified installers only
      Click here to find your nearest installer
      Developed with one clear goal: to keep dark paint looking its absolute best– long-term. Heal Plus eliminates micro defects and light swirls which typically degrade finishes over time.

      Professional Grade: Feynlab Trained & Authorized Installer Use Only.

      Installed price starting at $2499 depending on the amount of paint correction required.

      Damn!! Not cheap!
      LMAO that is insane

      Having detailed cars for quite some time now, I'd love to try this product out. However, the price is just silly. Unless there is some kind of crazy proprietary technology that cannot be replicated, my guess is other companies may follow suit and start making their own driving down price.
      2016 V60 Polestar - rebel blue
      2002 Sierra Denali

    17. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by demonte1997 View Post
      LMAO that is insane

      Having detailed cars for quite some time now, I'd love to try this product out. However, the price is just silly. Unless there is some kind of crazy proprietary technology that cannot be replicated, my guess is other companies may follow suit and start making their own driving down price.
      That price is about right, most pro cert coatings are all around 2k+, Carpro, IGL, Modesta and a few others. You have to realize the paint has to be perfect to be certified and the shop MUST honor 3-5 year warranty, depending on the company.
      06R Custom Electric Blue Silver
      07R Magic Blue - Sold
      04 Bonatti Gray Rover Disco HSE
      09 Iridium Silver SLK55 AMG P30 Edition

    18. #16
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      Overpriced if you ask me. I used Bowdens Own - Clay Rubber with Three Way for paint decontamination, Paint Cleanse and Restore, Snow Job and then Happy Ending and my 2013 RD looks showroom. And the hydrophobic qualities are awesome, the water beads really well, dirt doesn't' stick and all you have to do is wash and reapply the happy ending every 2 or 3 months.

      20190819_171502.jpg

      20190819_171509.jpg
      2013 S60 T6 R-Design - Rebel Blue - Polestar Tune - Polestar Performance Chassis - Polestar Performance Cat Back Exhaust
      2014 XC90 3.2 R-Design - Black Saphire

    19. #17
      these are all sexy as shiiiii. If I ever get a new(er) car I'm going ceramic for sure. $2K for 2 years of no water stains is totes worth it, right?!?

    20. #18
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by thezoneS60 View Post
      Overpriced if you ask me. I used Bowdens Own - Clay Rubber with Three Way for paint decontamination, Paint Cleanse and Restore, Snow Job and then Happy Ending and my 2013 RD looks showroom. And the hydrophobic qualities are awesome, the water beads really well, dirt doesn't' stick and all you have to do is wash and reapply the happy ending every 2 or 3 months.

      20190819_171502.jpg

      20190819_171509.jpg
      It's not just about clean, it's about perfect optical clarity. Your paying for the polishing, warranty, and product (Gloss, Hydrophobic properties and Protection).
      06R Custom Electric Blue Silver
      07R Magic Blue - Sold
      04 Bonatti Gray Rover Disco HSE
      09 Iridium Silver SLK55 AMG P30 Edition

    21. #19
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      Ok no problem. Well I think mine looks pretty darned good and it didn't cost me $2 grand+
      2013 S60 T6 R-Design - Rebel Blue - Polestar Tune - Polestar Performance Chassis - Polestar Performance Cat Back Exhaust
      2014 XC90 3.2 R-Design - Black Saphire

    22. #20
      Junior Member mtnpolestar's Avatar
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      I applied my ceramic myself, paid about $100 for cloths, ceramic, applicator etc. Going on 3 years now and it looks good, sheds water/grime. Really happy with it. Apply topical spray
      coat to help it every 6 months.

      20200221_102433a.jpg

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