goodbye swedespeed-- the R couldn't even make it to 200,000 miles. Moving on to something reliable.
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    1. #1
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      goodbye swedespeed-- the R couldn't even make it to 200,000 miles. Moving on to something reliable.

      Hi all,

      I've owned by 2005 S60R since December 2008. Bought it certified pre-owned at 36,000 miles, and drove it through February 2020 .

      The car began misfiring at the start of a 2000+ mile ski roadtrip from Northern California to Big Sky Montana, with ~192,000 miles on the odometer. I refused the car to interrupt my much needed vacation plans, so I continued on the 2000+ mile roadtrip, misfiring on cylinder #1 the entire way through West Yellowstone and Big Sky Montana, down to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, then home to the San Francisco bay area.

      Here's one of the last photos of my R, taken in Big Sky, Montana after a recent snow fall.



      The day after I returned from my trip, I did a leakdown test and found 100% exhaust leak on cylinder #1.

      Yesterday, I took off the cylinder head and found this:



      Priced out how much it would cost to rebuild the cylinder head and re-do PCV, thermostat while I was in there, and it came out to around $1600 in parts alone. Considering this car would struggle to sell for $4000 in good working order, I've decided to call it quits.

      It's been a fun journey, and while there's a lot of utterly useless people on here who still have never heard of googling "site:swedespeed.com ", I have been helped a great deal by the old timers on Swedespeed, so to those select few, I am grateful.

      I am not, however, grateful to Volvo and their bull**** reliability. Not being able to even make it to 200,000 miles on a well-maintained modern internal combustion engine is ridiculous.

      The outrageous pricing on certain parts was not welcome either-- $101.93 list price for *individual* exhaust valves. REALLY? That's an 1100% markup from the equivalent part made by Osvat. It's basically Volvo's way of saying "go **** yourself when our exhaust valves burn prematurely"

      The garbage "environmentally friendly" leather seats which basically force you to buy a new car if you care at all about aesthetics (so much for "environmental friendliness", right?) were by far the worst part about this car.

      So, that being said, I will be buying a Toyota Tacoma. It will be nice not having to have my weekends interrupted every time some stupid sensor which I didn't even know existed fails.

      The car will be parted out in Gilroy, California. Please PM me if interested. See my signature for list of mods.

      Best,

      Arch Stanton

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    3. #2
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      Seems like you could buy a complete good head off of a part-out for a lot less than $1600.

    4. #3
      Member BlkT5's Avatar
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      ^ Exactly. I just did the head on my 05 R and it was ~750US including getting the head decked and cleaned at the machine shop & valves glass beaded.. Head bolts, head gasket, timing belt kit, water pump, cam seals, exh/int mani gasket, valve stem seals etc etc

      I'll even send you a couple used exhaust valves if you pay shipping. $10

      here's how mine cleaned up after glass beading at the machine shop. Cost me $25

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    6. #4
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mobeus View Post
      Seems like you could buy a complete good head off of a part-out for a lot less than $1600.
      I considered it. I found someone in Southern California with a head for $600. But I still would want to do PCV, thermostat (and unrelated, need new front brake pads but that's only $65), spark plugs, and obviously gaskets and head bolts would need to be replaced. Looking at $1000 in parts that way, and no guarantee what my new leakdown numbers would be, or that the next set of valves won't burn.

    7. #5
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      250k miles is pretty good time for a valve job.
      Everyone treats cars as though they are disposable now, that is the problem.
      Do the valve job and it runs another 20 years.

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
      I considered it. I found someone in Southern California with a head for $600. But I still would want to do PCV, thermostat (and unrelated, need new front brake pads but that's only $65), spark plugs, and obviously gaskets and head bolts would need to be replaced. Looking at $1000 in parts that way, and no guarantee what my new leakdown numbers would be, or that the next set of valves won't burn.
      all valves burn - eventually. Properly done your leak down would be just fine. And with the rest of that stuff, well, you have a rebuilt car essentially.

    9. #7
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      Yikes, bummer.

      What do you think caused the misfire?

      Did the misfire - left uncured - cause that damage?
      04 V70R, 05 M3, 92 Stealth TT, 94 Stealth TT soon to be single T

    10. #8
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by VolvoBrad View Post
      250k miles is pretty good time for a valve job.
      Everyone treats cars as though they are disposable now, that is the problem.
      Do the valve job and it runs another 20 years.
      I would hate to see the state of the leather seats after another 20 years...

      Yes, the cylinder head would not need to be rebuilt for another ~200,000 miles. I agree. The issue is that, mated to that rebuilt cylinder head, there's an entire car full of parts with 194,500 miles of wear that were not rebuilt, ready to break & need replacement.

    11. #9
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lawdogg View Post
      Yikes, bummer.

      What do you think caused the misfire?

      Did the misfire - left uncured - cause that damage?
      Can only speculate about that at this point. Maybe the valve just stopped sealing from high mileage, or carbon buildup. Or maybe it was a leaky fuel injector. The fact of the matter is, I was not willing to interrupt a ski trip I'd been planning for 13 months to deal with another car issue. The car is disposable, my time is not.

    12. #10
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by VolvoBrad View Post
      all valves burn - eventually. Properly done your leak down would be just fine. And with the rest of that stuff, well, you have a rebuilt car essentially.
      No, I'd have a rebuilt cylinder head and a new PCV system, not a rebuilt car.

      I would still have the original transmission, clutch, the original timing hubs, original paint job (which is showing warning signs of clear coat failure), original air conditioning, an angle gear with 100,000+ miles on it, control arms with 120,000+, and worst of all: original leather seats that started showing wear at 60,000 and at 194,500 look like my dog ate them.

    13. #11
      Junior Member shurgen's Avatar
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      Doesn't look burned, rather chipped from likely carbon build up. This reminds me to seafoam my two high mileage cars. I have 247k mile spare head with burned valve for rebuild. Let me know if interested. All you really need is a used valve to replaced burnt one and then remove all of the valves for cleaning/lapping.
      04 V70R Red/Atacama, 100k miles, M66, Rica 2, Elevate DP and sways, JRL mod, 3"CAI, Viva CBV, Heico V's.
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    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
      Can only speculate about that at this point. Maybe the valve just stopped sealing from high mileage, or carbon buildup. Or maybe it was a leaky fuel injector. The fact of the matter is, I was not willing to interrupt a ski trip I'd been planning for 13 months to deal with another car issue. The car is disposable, my time is not.
      When something breaks, the timing's never convenient, that's for sure! Hope you enjoy the Tacoma.
      04 V70R, 05 M3, 92 Stealth TT, 94 Stealth TT soon to be single T

    15. #13
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by shurgen View Post
      Doesn't look burned, rather chipped from likely carbon build up. This reminds me to seafoam my two high mileage cars. I have 247k mile spare head with burned valve for rebuild. Let me know if interested. All you really need is a used valve to replaced burnt one and then remove all of the valves for cleaning/lapping.
      This is my first time dealing with a damaged exhaust valve (had a valve spring break on my '68 Firebird, but that was the spring, not the valve itself), so please correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding is that when an exhaust valve starts to burn, it gets progressively worse as the valve continues not to seat properly, and cannot cool causing further deterioration. So, that hole is a burnt valve gone wild.

    16. #14
      Junior Member TristanScott's Avatar
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      Sounds like you've just had enough. That's okay. Other people who have not look at your situation and think, "oh but you could just do this and that for $xxx and it would be good to go!" But when you've had enough it doesn't really matter.
      Enjoy the Tacoma!

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    17. #15
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by TristanScott View Post
      Sounds like you've just had enough. That's okay. Other people who have not look at your situation and think, "oh but you could just do this and that for $xxx and it would be good to go!" But when you've had enough it doesn't really matter.
      Enjoy the Tacoma!

      Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
      I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks!

      edit: one other thing worth considering is length of time I've had the car. I suspect the proportion of people saying to fix the car is smaller when only considering those who have owned their R for 11+ years.
      Last edited by Arch Stanton; 03-02-2020 at 03:58 PM.

    18. #16
      Junior Member TristanScott's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
      I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks!

      edit: one other thing worth considering is length of time I've had the car. I suspect the proportion of people saying to fix the car is smaller when only considering those who have owned their R for 11+ years.
      Yeah I've seen your name a lot as I've dug through this forum for the last 6.5 years of ownership. If that same issue happened to me, I would probably suck it up and make the repairs because I'm not "done" with what I want to do with my caR. But looking forward to the 11-year mark of ownership, I can definitely see myself saying F IT!
      2004 S60R M66 Electric Silver Nordkap
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    19. #17
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      If you are considering a potential replacement head then you should talk to Nick at re-volv.com you may be surprised at his prices. Either way, best of luck man.

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    20. #18
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      Heres this just came across it. https://denver.craigslist.org/pts/d/...085052601.html

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    21. #19
      Member NYR's Avatar
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      Sounds like Arch is ready to move on and not deal with the issues of a car with 200k and he is right on many fronts. I just realized I have owned my R for 12 years. I love my R and not looking to sell anytime soon but def a labor of love and money lol. That being said hard to find any newer cars that would make me smile as much that would not cost big bucks and Im sure down the road would still need repairs etc as newer cars just dont seem to last. A tacoma is a whole differe type of car and sounds like a great option for your needs.

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    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by NYR View Post
      Sounds like Arch is ready to move on and not deal with the issues of a car with 200k and he is right on many fronts. I just realized I have owned my R for 12 years. I love my R and not looking to sell anytime soon but def a labor of love and money lol. That being said hard to find any newer cars that would make me smile as much that would not cost big bucks and Im sure down the road would still need repairs etc as newer cars just dont seem to last. A tacoma is a whole differe type of car and sounds like a great option for your needs.

      Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
      It just sucks that more manufacturers dont really offer manual sedans or wagons for that matter. The last manual wagon and sedan manual combo I can think of it's the CTS-V and those wagons are as rare or slightly more rare then the V70R

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    23. #21
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      See ya

    24. #22
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cptnslo View Post
      It just sucks that more manufacturers dont really offer manual sedans or wagons for that matter. The last manual wagon and sedan manual combo I can think of it's the CTS-V and those wagons are as rare or slightly more rare then the V70R

      Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
      Hence why I'm going Toyota Tacoma. 4WD option, manual transmission option, and 6800 lb tow rating.

      Oh, and reliable.

    25. #23
      Junior Member Julien's Avatar
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      Sad to hear of it's demise. I'm interested in your go fast handling bits, if you're selling

    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post

      I've owned by 2005 S60R since December 2008.
      Long ride! Good on ya. Maybe VR if there’s a next time?

      I’m now at 246K... still fun AF to drive the living piss out of it and bang gears - plus hauls crap around when ya need it.
      04 V70R M66

    27. #25
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      Arch, I've read the Halo install with much interest and wanted to pull something like that off in the summer. Sorry to hear another local leave the R, but I've sent a PM about potential part requests if you're truly parting it out.

    28. #26
      Junior Member 4EVA's Avatar
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      don't let the door hit you on the way out
      2007 S60R Sonic Blue/Nordkap GT, ~50k miles
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    29. #27
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      My daughter's 2004 S60 R is at 172k hoping it'll make it to 200k+ and get her through college. I just got vida figured out and hooked it up to her car and we have some issues to sort out. Do you have a thread in the classifieds section? What color is the interior? Hope your enjoying the Tacoma, a buddy of mine is on his third and won't have anything else. They ride decent and get good fuel mileage. Personally I've got to have a much larger truck for work and play.

    30. #28
      Quote Originally Posted by NYR View Post
      Sounds like Arch is ready to move on and not deal with the issues of a car with 200k and he is right on many fronts. I just realized I have owned my R for 12 years. I love my R and not looking to sell anytime soon but def a labor of love and money lol.
      Yes, but the comments on "reliability" he's dropping on the way out the door makes him seem absurd. The car threw MULTIPLE codes, he refused to stop trip, kept driving, finally leading to a burnt valve.

      While he's already half way through the not-too-expensive rebuild since he does his own wrenching, he decides the brand has "wronged" him somehow. Brah, show me a 300K Taco and I'll show you a 100K corolla that burns through a quart oil every 1K mi.

      Peace out sir.

    31. #29
      Global Moderator R-Pow3R3d's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by 4EVA View Post
      don't let the door hit you on the way out
      Quote Originally Posted by tonyc View Post
      Yes, but the comments on "reliability" he's dropping on the way out the door makes him seem absurd. The car threw MULTIPLE codes, he refused to stop trip, kept driving, finally leading to a burnt valve.

      While he's already half way through the not-too-expensive rebuild since he does his own wrenching, he decides the brand has "wronged" him somehow. Brah, show me a 300K Taco and I'll show you a 100K corolla that burns through a quart oil every 1K mi.

      Peace out sir.
      Man, you guys are sure salty over something that has absolutely no effect on you whatsoever. He drove it to 200k and got tired of dealing with it. If you think the R can be considered classically reliable, you're fooling yourself. It's okay to keep one and be happy with it, but it's also okay to be done with one and move on. Don't get butt hurt by someone else's decision about their own life.
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    32. #30
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      I'm a little surprised that anyone with any mechanical sympathy would continue to drive a car with a known problem. That's just plain stupid.

    33. #31
      Junior Member NorthWestR's Avatar
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      Peace out Arch! Been real buddy, hope the Taco is a solid reliable truck for ya.
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    34. #32
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by tonyc View Post
      Yes, but the comments on "reliability" he's dropping on the way out the door makes him seem absurd. The car threw MULTIPLE codes, he refused to stop trip, kept driving, finally leading to a burnt valve.

      While he's already half way through the not-too-expensive rebuild since he does his own wrenching, he decides the brand has "wronged" him somehow. Brah, show me a 300K Taco and I'll show you a 100K corolla that burns through a quart oil every 1K mi.

      Peace out sir.
      Quote Originally Posted by cleanerPA View Post
      I'm a little surprised that anyone with any mechanical sympathy would continue to drive a car with a known problem. That's just plain stupid.

      The car is a tool. It serves me, I don't serve it. The most valuable thing I have in my life is time. I can always make more money, but I only have a finite amount of time.

      If the car was misfiring on my way to work, sure, I would stop driving it, have it towed to my shop & take care of it. Sure. That's what I did when I broke an exhaust valve spring on my '68 Firebird.

      The car began misfiring at the start of a 2,000 mile ski/roadtrip/vacation which I have been waiting since December 2018 to go on. I did some basic diagnostics while on the road to ensure I wouldn't get stranded-- swapped spark plugs, ignition coils, and fuel injectors, but the misfire stayed on cylinder 1. Nothing could be done without interrupting my vacation plans, so I kept driving.

      The car is a tool, it serves me, I don't serve it. The most valuable thing I have in my life is time. I can always make more money, but I only have a finite amount of time. That means I don't interrupt my much-needed vacation plans to deal with a car that I've clearly driven into the ground. I continue driving it into the ground, enjoy my vacation, and when I return, I buy a new, more reliable car. Period.

    35. #33
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      May we all know the right time to exit the caR! Cheers on the taco, sounds like it'll serve you well.

      Me: 2007 VR gt Slicktop Titanium Grey/Nordkap Wife: 2015 XC60 T6 AWD Ocean Race Past: 2006 V70 2.5T Willow Green/Oak, 2005 S60 2.5T AWD Silver/Black
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    36. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
      I will be buying a Toyota Tacoma. It will be nice not having to have my weekends interrupted every time some stupid sensor which I didn't even know existed fails.


      Arch Stanton
      exactly!





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    37. #35
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      Sounds like it's been a good ride, best of luck with the new ride. I personally LOVE the 4Runner and have had my eye on them for a while. The problem for me is I purchased everything through FCP euro since day one so my cost ownership now is relatively low and just doesn't make $ sense to leave.
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