XC90 B5 Hybrid Failure
Username
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    Results 1 to 22 of 22
    1. #1
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2020
      Posts
      5

      XC90 B5 Hybrid Failure

      My 3 month old XC90 has been 'self-isolating' at the local dealership for over a week now. For the love of God, don't buy a B5 'mild hybrid' unless you want the joy of seeing a 'hybrid failure' message. That is the 3rd fault, which can be added to the 'suspension failure' message (also not diagnosed or fixed) and the occasional painfully slow sensus display loading when first turned on.

      I last had a hybrid car 5 years ago - a brand new Mercedes E300. That broke down twice in the first two days, was off the road for a month, and then set fire to itself a few months later and was completely destroyed. Understandably, that did put me off hybrids for a while, but I thought the B5 looked like a safe bet. What a fool.

      If I thought I could walk away and buy something else easily, I would. My old Ford C-Max was far more reliable than this.

      Simon

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. #2
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2018
      Location
      Huntington Beach, California
      Posts
      95
      Well, that's a first post! Where do you live?
      2016 XC90 T8 Inscription w/Air Suspension

    4. #3
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2020
      Posts
      5
      Quote Originally Posted by sconnors11 View Post
      Well, that's a first post! Where do you live?
      Iím in the UK.

      Obviously there are many, many things that I love about the XC90. However, in top spec it is a 100,000 dollar vehicle in my market, and at that price point I expect more. Two others in my office building have new Volvos (both V90s) and when I mentioned the issues with mine, they both confirmed software issues with their cars. That is just not good enough. These new models have been out for a few years, so teething problems should have been ironed out long ago.

      It is my mistake to go for another hybrid car, but it is frustrating as I deliberately avoided the T8 as I didnít trust it. I would have bought an SQ7 if Audi dealers hadnít been so arrogant and useless. The Volvo was a refreshing change but, letís be fair, an expectation of basic reliability is not unreasonable.

    5. Remove Advertisements
      SwedeSpeed.com
      Advertisements

    6. #4
      Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2018
      Location
      D.C. Metro Region
      Posts
      1,143
      We do not get the B5 option in America, but if you avoided the T8 because you didn't trust it - why would you pile faith into a hybrid of another another variety from the same manufacturer?

      Sorry you're facing trouble nonetheless. Surprised to read Sensus is not performing properly. Everything I read said they had the bootup time and responsiveness sorted in the 2020s.
      2009 XC90 3.2 AWD l Oyster Grey / Bi-Xenon / Dynaudio / BLIS / VNS / RSE / THULE Aeroblade

    7. #5
      Junior Member genesmasher's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 2013
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      730
      Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDancer View Post
      We do not get the B5 option in America, but if you avoided the T8 because you didn't trust it - why would you pile faith into a hybrid of another another variety from the same manufacturer?
      ...
      It seems very likely that mild hybrids of various Volvo models will be offered in the US starting MY21 (coming this fall), probably in place of corresponding gasoline-only T-versions.
      2019 S60 T6 R-design Polestar / Fusion Red / Black
      2018 XC60 T8 AWD Inscription Vision Lux Air / Fusion Red / Black
      past:
      2018 S60 T5 Dynamic Sport Vision Nav / Onyx Black / Black
      2015.5 XC60 T6 AWD Platinum Sport BLIS / Power Blue / Blond|Black
      2014 S60 T5 Prem Plus Sport BLIS Xenons / Ember Black / Beechwood

    8. #6
      Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2018
      Location
      D.C. Metro Region
      Posts
      1,143
      Quote Originally Posted by genesmasher View Post
      It seems very likely that mild hybrids of various Volvo models will be offered in the US starting MY21 (coming this fall), probably in place of corresponding gasoline-only T-versions.
      Since we don't get the diesel option, I have a suspicion Volvo USA may elect to bypass the hassle of training tech and managing inventory of a mild hybrid fleet and jump straight to the T8 or All Electric options in 202X.
      2009 XC90 3.2 AWD l Oyster Grey / Bi-Xenon / Dynaudio / BLIS / VNS / RSE / THULE Aeroblade

    9. #7
      Member
      Join Date
      Dec 2017
      Location
      PNW
      Posts
      5,590
      Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDancer View Post
      Since we don't get the diesel option, I have a suspicion Volvo USA may elect to bypass the hassle of training tech and managing inventory of a mild hybrid fleet and jump straight to the T8 or All Electric options in 202X.
      PHEV and BEV are still much higher price. B5/B6 is much simpler than PHEV. Should be no much worry on it.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 236+k miles

    10. #8
      Junior Member Catfiend's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2019
      Location
      Olympic Peninsula
      Posts
      234
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      PHEV and BEV are still much higher price. B5/B6 is much simpler than PHEV. Should be no much worry on it.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Beyond cost, there's availability for the bigger batteries. If they want to keep sales volumes up I don't think they can rely on plug-in cars until the whole battery supply chain is much better.

      I wonder if the motor on the B5/B6 is substantially different from the SG motor on the T8's that the techs have already been trained on?
      2001 V70, 2.4T White/blond (outgoing)
      2020 XC60 T8, Inscription White/blond (incoming - sometime)

    11. #9
      Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2018
      Location
      D.C. Metro Region
      Posts
      1,143
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      PHEV and BEV are still much higher price. B5/B6 is much simpler than PHEV. Should be no much worry on it.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      While BEVs and PHEVs are higher priced, I have yet to see mild-hybrid deliver on the fuel savings in time to amortize the additional MSPR over its standard gas engine models.
      2009 XC90 3.2 AWD l Oyster Grey / Bi-Xenon / Dynaudio / BLIS / VNS / RSE / THULE Aeroblade

    12. #10
      Member
      Join Date
      Dec 2017
      Location
      PNW
      Posts
      5,590
      Quote Originally Posted by Catfiend View Post
      Beyond cost, there's availability for the bigger batteries. If they want to keep sales volumes up I don't think they can rely on plug-in cars until the whole battery supply chain is much better.

      I wonder if the motor on the B5/B6 is substantially different from the SG motor on the T8's that the techs have already been trained on?
      B5/B6 is using belt driven motor, basically a bigger alternator. I am not sure why they don't use the CISG on T8, which seems a straightforward drop-in to add hybrid on T5/T6, beautiful technically and share more parts.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 236+k miles

    13. #11
      Member
      Join Date
      Dec 2017
      Location
      PNW
      Posts
      5,590
      Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDancer View Post
      While BEVs and PHEVs are higher priced, I have yet to see mild-hybrid deliver on the fuel savings in time to amortize the additional MSPR over its standard gas engine models.
      It is not for cost saving, not the purpose of luxury cars.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 236+k miles

    14. #12
      Junior Member RootDKJ's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      North Jersey
      Posts
      821
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      B5/B6 is using belt driven motor, basically a bigger alternator. I am not sure why they don't use the CISG on T8, which seems a straightforward drop-in to add hybrid on T5/T6, beautiful technically and share more parts.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      I thought the B5/B6ís have a CISG but no 10kwh battery or ERAD?
      2019 Bursting Blue XC60 R-Design T8
      | 21" Wheels | Exterior Style Kit | Advanced | 4C Air | B & W | CPO 10yr/Unlimited |
      2010 Maple Red XC60 T6 retired at 173,375 miles

    15. #13
      Junior Member Catfiend's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2019
      Location
      Olympic Peninsula
      Posts
      234
      Quote Originally Posted by RootDKJ View Post
      I thought the B5/B6ís have a CISG but no 10kwh battery or ERAD?
      Just found this on Volvo's international website:
      It's based on a powerful Integrated Starter Generator and a 48V battery that complements the car's ordinary 12V electrical system. When you press the brake pedal or use engine braking, the kinetic energy that otherwise would have been lost in heat is converted into electric energy and fed into the 48V battery. When needed, the stored energy can be used to momentarily boost the petrol engine by using the Integrated Starter Generator for even more powerful acceleration.


      Sounds like it is at least closely related to the one on the T8s.
      2001 V70, 2.4T White/blond (outgoing)
      2020 XC60 T8, Inscription White/blond (incoming - sometime)

    16. #14
      Member inteller's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2009
      Location
      Tulsa, OK
      Posts
      8,378
      these B models are just more platitudes to Volvos PR machine so they can say all new models are electrified....such a sham and a joke to real electrification efforts. Fact is they know all electric fleets don't fly in America the land of 4 hour drives and inadequate and slow charging infrastructure.
      2016 Bright Silver Metallic XC90 T8 Inscription, everything
      2015.5 Rebel Blue S60 Polestar 18/40
      2006 Passion Red S60R
      Packages: Premium, Climate Options: Sport Appearance Package, 18" Pegs, 6Spd Geartronic, Navigation
      Accessories: Sunglasses holder, Sirius Radio, Volvo Digital Jukebox Mods:SS DEM Mod
      "Just say no to LV VIN codes"

    17. #15
      Member
      Join Date
      Dec 2017
      Location
      PNW
      Posts
      5,590
      Quote Originally Posted by Catfiend View Post
      Just found this on Volvo's international website:
      It's based on a powerful Integrated Starter Generator and a 48V battery that complements the car's ordinary 12V electrical system. When you press the brake pedal or use engine braking, the kinetic energy that otherwise would have been lost in heat is converted into electric energy and fed into the 48V battery. When needed, the stored energy can be used to momentarily boost the petrol engine by using the Integrated Starter Generator for even more powerful acceleration.


      Sounds like it is at least closely related to the one on the T8s.
      There is pic of the B engine, belt driven starter/generator. The coaxial CISG on T8 is better technically. Should be more powerful (46HP 34KW vs 10KW mild hybrid) and no rubber belt to replace after many years.

      The Mhev generator is not powerful because the battery is too small, only about 1.5kwh.


      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 03-22-2020 at 01:09 AM.
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 236+k miles

    18. #16
      Junior Member Catfiend's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2019
      Location
      Olympic Peninsula
      Posts
      234
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      There is pic of the B engine, belt driven starter/generator.
      Do you have a link to some pictures? I don't doubt you, and I thank you for clearing that up, I'm just trying to understand how they can get enough power out of a belt driven setup to actually help push the car. I remember a review that said that the B series basically solved the auto start/stop issues completely - it was seamless because of the instant torque of the electric motor which could at least keep things going until the ICE kicked in.
      2001 V70, 2.4T White/blond (outgoing)
      2020 XC60 T8, Inscription White/blond (incoming - sometime)

    19. #17
      Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2018
      Location
      D.C. Metro Region
      Posts
      1,143
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      It is not for cost saving, not the purpose of luxury cars.

      Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk

      Then what would be the benefit of paying extra for a mild hybrid?
      2009 XC90 3.2 AWD l Oyster Grey / Bi-Xenon / Dynaudio / BLIS / VNS / RSE / THULE Aeroblade

    20. #18
      Member
      Join Date
      Dec 2017
      Location
      PNW
      Posts
      5,590
      Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDancer View Post
      Then what would be the benefit of paying extra for a mild hybrid?
      Burn less fuel, up to 15% less.

      Fusion ∑ Red ∑ T8 ∑ XC60
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 236+k miles

    21. #19
      Member
      Join Date
      Dec 2017
      Location
      PNW
      Posts
      5,590
      Quote Originally Posted by Catfiend View Post
      Do you have a link to some pictures? I don't doubt you, and I thank you for clearing that up, I'm just trying to understand how they can get enough power out of a belt driven setup to actually help push the car. I remember a review that said that the B series basically solved the auto start/stop issues completely - it was seamless because of the instant torque of the electric motor which could at least keep things going until the ICE kicked in.
      It is only 10kw, 14HP. It could spin up the engine quicker than a normal starter, but I don't think it able to move the car, maybe only in parking lot.

      For picture link,


      Fusion ∑ Red ∑ T8 ∑ XC60
      Last edited by FusionRedXC60; 03-23-2020 at 01:21 AM.
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
      Running to retire, 2000 V70XC 236+k miles

    22. #20
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2020
      Posts
      5
      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      Burn less fuel, up to 15% less.

      Fusion ∑ Red ∑ T8 ∑ XC60
      Honestly it really doesn't burn any less fuel. Volvo says it does, but that is nonsense. I am getting 29mpg (UK) which is exactly the same as I would expect from the old D5 engine. In the European market, there are massive fines (billions of dollars) for all manufacturers in 2020 that don't dramatically reduce their average CO2 emissions. All the hybrid and mild hybrid nonsense is just to get these figures down on paper.

      When I had an E300 hybrid Mercedes, I drove 200 miles to see a friend and took it really gently all the way to try to maximise mpg. I averaged 42mpg. A week later the car broke down and they gave me an E220 rental (same car without the hybrid tech). I drove the same journey again, as gently as possible, and averaged 45mpg. Whatever benefit the mild hybrid offers, the extra weight of the battery more than offsets it.

      I didn't choose the B5 model, in case you are wondering. In the UK it is the replacement for the D5 diesel. The D5 is no longer available.

      Simon

    23. #21
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Mar 2020
      Posts
      5
      The electric motor won't move the car on its own, even for a few feet. It is just supposed to help provide some extra power from time to time.

    24. #22
      Junior Member
      Join Date
      Apr 2018
      Location
      Harrison, Maine
      Posts
      309
      Found this an interesting read--about a motor configuration not yet available in the US. It started to sound like the Mercedes setup. But it isn't. For those who don't know, the MB starter/generator is part of the engine, an in-line 6. No belts involved. Actually no belts at all on the engine. All accessories are electrically driven off the 48V system.

    25. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    Similar Threads

    1. XC60 B4 and B5 diesel mild hybrid now orderable in Sweden
      By FusionRedXC60 in forum XC60 (SPA: 2018- )
      Replies: 0
      Last Post: 03-31-2019, 04:40 PM
    2. 2013 XC90 calls fro ACEA A5/B5 5W30
      By FormerSaaber in forum XC90 (2003 - 2014)
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 03-15-2018, 06:53 PM
    3. K24 11 blade hybrid vs Non hybrid?
      By khalil_y in forum R Forum (2004-2007)
      Replies: 20
      Last Post: 12-28-2016, 10:30 PM
    4. Volvo V60 Hybrid vs Lexus CT Hybrid
      By swimmer240 in forum News & Rumors
      Replies: 3
      Last Post: 05-09-2012, 08:29 PM
    5. B5 S4 Now or wait and save up??
      By flipseat in forum R Forum (2004-2007)
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: 10-21-2003, 03:49 PM