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    1. #1
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      Shim recommendations?

      Thinking about doing this since we have so much downtime, could anyone recommend a good Cam lock tool and tool to pull off the head? Also what shims would you recommend? I found Dream Science but they aren't shipping right now due to corona virus.

      https://www.dreamscience-automotive....t-focus-st225/

      Also plan a new head gasket, cleaning the pistons and updating the oil pump pick up tube, while I'm in there.

      Thanks,
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    3. #2
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      This cam locking tool works fine; you can also get it from Amazon


      https://www.ebay.com/p/523083561?iid...IaAk3HEALw_wcB

      For shims you can just buy four sets of feeler gauges and use the .035Ē gauges.

      MLS head gasket only and new head bolts and youíll be in good shape.



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    4. #3
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      Ping Julien to publish his video from last Sunday and that will pulley answer some questions for you.


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    6. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by Austin V70R View Post
      This cam locking tool works fine; you can also get it from Amazon


      https://www.ebay.com/p/523083561?iid...IaAk3HEALw_wcB

      For shims you can just buy four sets of feeler gauges and use the .035Ē gauges.

      MLS head gasket only and new head bolts and youíll be in good shape.



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      For sure regarding the Volvo MLS, don't use the Reinz or you will be doing it again.

      Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

    7. #5
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      https://www.deeworks.ca/product/volv...iner-shim-kit/


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    8. #6
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by martynunya View Post
      For sure regarding the Volvo MLS, don't use the Reinz or you will be doing it again.

      Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
      Is the OEM gasket the same as the MLS? A little lost.

      I ordered a reinz this morning, will send it back lol.
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    9. #7
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      The Volvo gasket is MLS


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    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Austin V70R View Post
      This cam locking tool works fine; you can also get it from Amazon


      https://www.ebay.com/p/523083561?iid...IaAk3HEALw_wcB

      For shims you can just buy four sets of feeler gauges and use the .035Ē gauges.

      MLS head gasket only and new head bolts and youíll be in good shape.



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      This is the head tool I have and it works great. I just got feeler gauges today from Amazon (2 for $10). Just shimmed the block about an hour ago.

    11. #9
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      Agree w/ Austin on both counts.

      I used Harbor Freight feeler gauges for shims, so far so good, and the same cam / head tool.
      04 V70R, 05 M3, 92 Stealth TT, 94 Stealth TT soon to be single T

    12. #10
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      Does anyone know what causes the sleeve to fail, knock or heat?
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    13. #11
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Driver View Post
      Does anyone know what causes the sleeve to fail, knock or heat?
      I can tell you this.... Iíve shimmed low mileage 44T5 and 54T4 engines that were on their way to failure and last week helped Julien shim his 180K mile 4T4 that was absolutely and perfect at .035Ē gaps.... best Iíve seen. Juliens car is a meticulously maintained woman owned car that Iím sure was babied.

      In theory ME7 should manage knock, but with degrading fuel itís difficult to say how well ďmanagedĒ it truly is. These cars are designed for 93 octane of the mid-2000ís, so itís easy to assume detonation is a factor.

      I can tell you how to reduce the likelihood of failure - a good tune developed with logging. To prevent it, shim it and get the same good tune. It will cost you a couple grand, but with it for the long term.


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      06 VR GT - daily driver ~18" TSW Nurburgring wheels ~Contrast Stage 4 ~Shimmed block ~EFR7163 turbo ~1050cc Injectors ~TorqByte PM3 fuel pump and CM5-LT W/M controllers ~track spec IPD Bars ~Ultra Racing front strut bar & VST rear strut bar ~SS brake lines~Innovate Boost & AFR fail safe

    14. #12
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      Thanks Austin!

      Well, I bought 10 cans of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner so I'll be doing the heads myself and I'll also be doing oil pan pick up (updated). I definitely plan on doing the shims while I'm in there. Only thing I wish I could do also is a Snabb copper one piece exhaust gasket, can't seem to find it though.
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    15. #13
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Driver View Post
      Thanks Austin!

      Only thing I wish I could do also is a Snabb copper one piece exhaust gasket, can't seem to find it though.
      Christian offers many good products, but the thin copper gasket is more pain than itís worth... Iíve used it in the past and only use OE ďtypeĒ gaskets now. Your studs are too long, so youíll end up with spacers under the washers, resulting in leaks. Unless you change all of your exhaust studs to full thread.



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      06 VR GT - daily driver ~18" TSW Nurburgring wheels ~Contrast Stage 4 ~Shimmed block ~EFR7163 turbo ~1050cc Injectors ~TorqByte PM3 fuel pump and CM5-LT W/M controllers ~track spec IPD Bars ~Ultra Racing front strut bar & VST rear strut bar ~SS brake lines~Innovate Boost & AFR fail safe

    16. #14
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Driver View Post
      Thanks Austin!

      Well, I bought 10 cans of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner so I'll be doing the heads myself and I'll also be doing oil pan pick up (updated). I definitely plan on doing the shims while I'm in there. Only thing I wish I could do also is a Snabb copper one piece exhaust gasket, can't seem to find it though.
      I used the Victor-Reinz "REI-713746700" one piece exhaust gasket, which is for a Volvo S40 but works fine-- you just need to trim one corner of it to clear the water pipe.

      Also stuck with Victor-Reinz head gasket that came in the REI-023696001 kit. $100.39 at FCP euro for the whole kit, hard to beat.

      I had my head off to replace a burnt exhaust valve and did not waste my time or $20 on feeler gauges for the block. Put it back together in stock form. Have yet to hear a good reason why I should stick steel feeler gauges in there. Whatever bro science you're using to justify it goes out the window the second the engine warms up and these metals start expanding at different rates.

      Can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would take the whole top end apart just to stick feeler gauges in the block. Do you really have nothing better to do?

    17. #15
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
      Do you really have nothing better to do?
      NOPE

      Anything else?
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    18. #16
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      I have read this in other places, but for the life of me cannot find it anywhere else at the moment.... Post #14 https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...19-BLOWN-MOTOR!

      This is how I believe shimming keeps the walls from cracking, since they are not connected as a unit, the vibration at high rpm, with combustion and heat causes them to eventually fail. It is my belief, (being an electronics and business major, no mechanical engineering background at all) that the repeated vibration weakens the cylinders and they eventually crack, shimming the motor gives them the extra support, like when adding earthquake anchors to structures.... It makes them stronger....
      Perhaps I am way off, but it obviously works, it's obviously proven, and Arch wasted a wonderful opportunity to prevent future cracking over the cost of ~10.00 and 15 minutes... just my opinion though...

    19. #17
      Moderator The Driver's Avatar
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      The main reason is I've done everything else on the motor, turbo, pcv, manifold, injectors etc. One of the Cam seals is leaking so if I'm going to fix that I might as well do everything else. When I did the plugs 2k ago I couldn't believe how gross the pistons looked through the plug hole. Basically my goal is to replace the cam seals, might do the timing while I'm in there (did it at 90k now at 130k), parts are through FCP so just labor, clean the pistons and head up, new gaskets etc. Definitely going to go with shims because it's right there and finally the oil pick up tube update. I figure then I might be able to run the boost levels Mnr is running on his shark tune.
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    20. #18
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kTaLgsTo View Post
      I have read this in other places, but for the life of me cannot find it anywhere else at the moment.... Post #14 https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...19-BLOWN-MOTOR!

      This is how I believe shimming keeps the walls from cracking, since they are not connected as a unit, the vibration at high rpm, with combustion and heat causes them to eventually fail. It is my belief, (being an electronics and business major, no mechanical engineering background at all) that the repeated vibration weakens the cylinders and they eventually crack, shimming the motor gives them the extra support, like when adding earthquake anchors to structures.... It makes them stronger....
      Perhaps I am way off, but it obviously works, it's obviously proven, and Arch wasted a wonderful opportunity to prevent future cracking over the cost of ~10.00 and 15 minutes... just my opinion though...
      So how does sticking a feeler gauge into a water passage make the walls "connected as a unit"?

      Have yet to see anything but anecdotal evidence supporting the claim this "prevents cracked cylinder walls"

    21. #19
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
      So how does sticking a feeler gauge into a water passage make the walls "connected as a unit"?

      Have yet to see anything but anecdotal evidence supporting the claim this "prevents cracked cylinder walls"
      Have you seen a properly shimmed engine fail from a cylinder failure? How many engines without shims have you seen fail?

      Iíve personally shimmed six engines without a single failure. Two of those were tuned to 30 psi and are still going.


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      06 VR GT - daily driver ~18" TSW Nurburgring wheels ~Contrast Stage 4 ~Shimmed block ~EFR7163 turbo ~1050cc Injectors ~TorqByte PM3 fuel pump and CM5-LT W/M controllers ~track spec IPD Bars ~Ultra Racing front strut bar & VST rear strut bar ~SS brake lines~Innovate Boost & AFR fail safe

    22. #20
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      Without taking this anymore off the original question... This is the thread I remember reading a while ago which has the most sensible info..

      https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...nical-overview

    23. #21
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Austin V70R View Post
      Have you seen a properly shimmed engine fail from a cylinder failure? How many engines without shims have you seen fail?

      Iíve personally shimmed six engines without a single failure. Two of those were tuned to 30 psi and are still going.

      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
      Note: the reasoning below is for a stock engine. I have a stock engine. My decision not to shim was made for my engine, which is, and will remain, stock.

      So you've shimmed 6 engines. Did you shim them when they were brand new? Or did they already have 100,000+ miles on them? How many miles have been driven since the shimming process?

      What is the failure rate, per mile, of cylinder walls on unshimmed blocks? If 1 in 20 un-shimmed engines have one failure by 200,000 miles, the failure rate is approximately one failure every 4 million miles.

      You can go on Swedespeed and count every reported shim failure and try to estimate the true failure rate (which I suspect is much lower than 1 per 4 million), but you have an inherent sampling bias, because people are much more likely to report a cylinder wall failure than *not* having a cylinder wall failure.

      Let's forget about the ridiculous sampling biases and just assume 1 failure every 4 million miles of driving.

      Now, we want to test the hypothesis that "Shimming a block reduces chance of future failures".

      Call variable "p" our probability of failure per mile.

      If you paid attention in elementary statistics, you'll remember we need one sided hypothesis test:

      H_0: p == 0.00000025 per mile
      H_A: p

      Now, let's assume that in your sample of shimmed blocks, you don't experience a single failure. You've said 6 engines so far, all of which I assume had an average of 100,000 miles on them already (but that is irrelevant, assuming a Poisson distribution for failures). Let's assume 50,000 miles have been driven since shimming the block.

      You're implying that "p == 0" based on a sample of 50,000*6 = 300,000 miles. I'll cut you some slack and assume what you mean is "p 0", because of a previously reported failure with a shimmed block.

      On average, if you sample *unshimmed* blocks for 300,000 miles, you will have 0.075 failures, assuming 1 failure per 4 million miles. So, if you had left those blocks alone, ~93% chance of no cylinder wall failure.

      If you drive 4 million miles on shimmed blocks, if the null hypothesis is true ("shims don't work"), you will experience, on average, 1 failure. But, 50% of the time, you **won't** experience a failure by 4 million miles. In order to rule out chance, we need to drive more than 4 million miles without a single failure to make the claim that the failure rate is reduced with shims.

      Generally, we reject the null hypothesis and accept the alternate hypothesis (that the probability of cylinder wall failure is reduced by shimming a block) if there is 95% confidence, or an alpha level of 0.05.

      That means, we have to drive enough miles without a failure, such that the chance of "getting lucky" is reduced to 5% or less, before we can confidently claim (95% confidence) that shims reduce cylinder wall failure rates.

      Guess how many miles you'll need to drive on shimmed blocks, without a single failure, before you can come to me and say with greater than 95% confidence, that the failure rate is reduced with shims? 11,990,000. Almost 12 million miles.

      And seeing that there has already been at least one reported cylinder wall failure using a shimmed block, the number is more like 19 million miles total, before having **another** failure.


      So really, don't claim shims reduce failures until you guys have documented 19 million miles on shimmed blocks without a second failure. If you manage to do that, I will personally post a YouTube video where I take apart my engine and install shims. I will wear a pink dress, high heels and a "BMW" hat while doing this.. In the meantime, I'll keep my $20 "shim money" where it belongs. In my brokerage account.

    24. #22
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      Ok.


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    25. #23
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    26. #24
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    27. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
      So how does sticking a feeler gauge into a water passage make the walls "connected as a unit"?

      Have yet to see anything but anecdotal evidence supporting the claim this "prevents cracked cylinder walls"
      if you have to ask dumb questions like that then it pointless explaining something to you "obviously" ... and you writing paragraphs of nonsense solidates that...


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    28. #26
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      if you have the head off and dont shim

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    29. #27
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      Does it look like the shims connect the walls as one unit? The shim isnít compressible, so.......




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      06 VR GT - daily driver ~18" TSW Nurburgring wheels ~Contrast Stage 4 ~Shimmed block ~EFR7163 turbo ~1050cc Injectors ~TorqByte PM3 fuel pump and CM5-LT W/M controllers ~track spec IPD Bars ~Ultra Racing front strut bar & VST rear strut bar ~SS brake lines~Innovate Boost & AFR fail safe

    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Austin V70R View Post
      Does it look like the shims connect the walls as one unit? The shim isnít compressible, so.......




      the guy posting a link to a knob mod in his sig will never get it " obviously "
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    31. #29
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Austin V70R View Post
      Does it look like the shims connect the walls as one unit? The shim isnít compressible, so.......




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      Really? it has magically become part of the cylinder wall? Or you blocked off a water passage with a piece of metal with different thermal expansion rates than the cylinder wall?

    32. #30
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
      Really? it has magically become part of the cylinder wall? Or you blocked off a water passage with a piece of metal with different thermal expansion rates than the cylinder wall?
      Apparently you didnít realize the FE cylinder wall has a different CTE than the AL block and the steel alloy shim is right somewhere in the middle. Not an issue.


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      06 VR GT - daily driver ~18" TSW Nurburgring wheels ~Contrast Stage 4 ~Shimmed block ~EFR7163 turbo ~1050cc Injectors ~TorqByte PM3 fuel pump and CM5-LT W/M controllers ~track spec IPD Bars ~Ultra Racing front strut bar & VST rear strut bar ~SS brake lines~Innovate Boost & AFR fail safe

    33. #31
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      The COVID lockdown has given people an opportunity to take on DIY projects that would be unobtanium in a regular life schedule.
      If anyone in the universe has a better solution to prevent sleeves from cracking I'm all ears, despite all the probability math. I would counter your argument with show me one case of sleeves cracking when shimmed???

      This is a relatively cheap compromise compared to a $2500 darton job plus rebuild cost. If it doesn't work out for him, what has he lost?


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    34. #32
      Junior Member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Austin V70R View Post
      Apparently you didnít realize the FE cylinder wall has a different CTE than the AL block and the steel alloy shim is right somewhere in the middle. Not an issue.


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      So you're comparing a factory installed cylinder liner to a feeler gauge from Harbor Freight?

      Also: not an issue on our cars (due to proper factory tooling), but engines such as the Rover V8s are notorious for slipping cylinder liners. Why? Differing thermal expansion.

      Still waiting on someone to get me **data** that supports the block-shim theory.

      If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory

    35. #33
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      Still waiting on the data that doesn't support it....

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    36. #34
      Member Austin V70R's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by martynunya View Post
      Still waiting on the data that doesn't support it....

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      Yeah.... to most of us the absence of failures with shims makes the answer self apparent.


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    37. #35
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      Yep, 1-(nerd data) is good enough for me.

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