tg-81c geartronic hard shift
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    1. #1
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      Smile tg-81c geartronic hard shift

      I have a volvo v60 MY2015 with a D4 engine and geartronic gearbox (TG-81c). Unfotunately the gearbox is not as wat it should be. At least I read everywhere they are reliable and smooth shifting. However, mine is not, at least not always. The downshift can be quite rough, especialiy the lower gears. Also the the upshifting it nog alway very smoots, it feels like it is holding back during shifts up.

      What I also notice with a cold engine that is revs high, I already learned it is normal behaviour with cold wheater to warm up the oil, but it does it also till 15 degrees outside, is that also normal?

      What I already did:
      - Oil flush
      - software update
      - change maf sensor (had some weird stuf with an old car and auto gearbox, was coused by the maf sensor).

      Unfortunately no luck to resolve it. Does someone know what this could be and what the next steps are?

      Sorry for the bad english btw, I'm not a native english person

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    3. #2
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      Double check the transmission fluid level using the temperature method. iirc it should be 40-50C using the inner drain level tube on a flat surface. Will check when I'm home.
      I had rough shifting from gear 1 to 2 when transmission fluid level was slightly low and only when car was just started in the cold.
      Trans fluid expand greatly when heat up so if your issue is less after car is warm; you could have low fluid from your flush.

      Did you use OEM Volvo/Toyota trans oil?
      2017 V60 P*

    4. #3
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      Wrong fluid or wrong level would me my suspicion as well. Please check these videos from FCP Euro on proper ATF and drain/fill technique.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unn12jdG-Yo
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9bwZElsodM&t=5s
      2015.5 Volvo V60 T5e w/Polestar

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    6. #4
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      Thanks for the information, I'm not sure the proper fluid is being used, I asumed they used the proper oil with the flush but I'm quite certain it was kroon oil, so not aisin/volvo/toyota fluid. After looking the video's and reading some more I see that can be a problem. So better change it to the proper fluid, I did see the video and is seems 'easy' with the video, I also have the tools etc. But I'm correct a basic drain doesn't replace all the fluid. Asuming the wrong fluid is being used, would it be enough to have a 3x 4liter refill (one more then the video) to replace all the oil or is a complete flush needed with the correct oil?

      Unfortunately the aisin fluid isn't available in the Netherlands, I can only order the Volvo fluid at the dealer. What would be the part number for the Toyota fluid?

      Volvo partnr should be: 31256774
      Aisin partnr should be: ATF-0WS
      Toyota partnr should be: ????

    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blueone View Post
      Thanks for the information, I'm not sure the proper fluid is being used, I asumed they used the proper oil with the flush but I'm quite certain it was kroon oil, so not aisin/volvo/toyota fluid. After looking the video's and reading some more I see that can be a problem. So better change it to the proper fluid, I did see the video and is seems 'easy' with the video, I also have the tools etc. But I'm correct a basic drain doesn't replace all the fluid. Asuming the wrong fluid is being used, would it be enough to have a 3x 4liter refill (one more then the video) to replace all the oil or is a complete flush needed with the correct oil?

      Unfortunately the aisin fluid isn't available in the Netherlands, I can only order the Volvo fluid at the dealer. What would be the part number for the Toyota fluid?

      Volvo partnr should be: 31256774
      Aisin partnr should be: ATF-0WS
      Toyota partnr should be: ????
      To do a complete fluid exchange with any torque converter automatic transmission would technically require complete disassembly of the trans (or at least decoupling of the torque converter) since there is no other way to drain the fluid held in the torque converter. Even with a "power flush" or by disconnecting the cooler lines and pumping in new fluid while draining out old fluid, there will always be some fluid mixing.

      Fortunately, a few drain/fills should replace a sufficient percentage of the fluid to be able to rule out incorrect fluid as the source of your problem.

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blueone View Post
      Thanks for the information, I'm not sure the proper fluid is being used, I asumed they used the proper oil with the flush but I'm quite certain it was kroon oil, so not aisin/volvo/toyota fluid. After looking the video's and reading some more I see that can be a problem. So better change it to the proper fluid, I did see the video and is seems 'easy' with the video, I also have the tools etc. But I'm correct a basic drain doesn't replace all the fluid. Asuming the wrong fluid is being used, would it be enough to have a 3x 4liter refill (one more then the video) to replace all the oil or is a complete flush needed with the correct oil?

      Unfortunately the aisin fluid isn't available in the Netherlands, I can only order the Volvo fluid at the dealer. What would be the part number for the Toyota fluid?

      Volvo partnr should be: 31256774
      Aisin partnr should be: ATF-0WS
      Toyota partnr should be: ????
      Toyota part number is 00289-ATFWS and any Toyota dealer call sell this to you.

      Dilution via multiple drain and fill is your best bet. Be sure to run the transmission through it's gear between each drain and fill.
      Here's what my fluid looked like when I did my 3x drain and fill. Drain #2 (middle right) and Drain #3 (bottom right) had very little difference to new fluid (top center); the difference is more stark to Drain #1 (left center).
      Avoid the flushing machine if your mechanic offers it.
      Last edited by Venth; 06-18-2020 at 09:13 AM.
      2017 V60 P*

    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Venth View Post
      Toyota part number is 00289-ATFWS and any Toyota dealer call sell this to you.

      Dilution via multiple drain and fill is your best bet. Be sure to run the transmission through it's gear between each drain and fill.
      Here's what my fluid looked like when I did my 3x drain and fill. Drain #2 (middle right) and Drain #3 (bottom right) had very little difference to new fluid (top center); the difference is more stark to Drain #1 (left center).
      Avoid the flushing machine if your mechanic offers it.
      I did a rough calculation on how much fluid is changed with each pass of a drain and fill and came up with the following figures for percentage of old fluid remaining:

      Initial drain and fill: 46.7%
      Second drain and fill: 21.8%
      Third drain and fill: 10.2%
      Fourth drain and fill: 4.8% (I didn't do a fourth cycle, but this is the calculated result)

      I did mine at 43K miles. When I set the level after the 3rd drain and fill, the fluid coming out looked very close to new fluid out of the bottle. I used the process shown in the FCP Euro tutorial, although that video came out after I did mine. I did see a change in appearance between the second and third drain, so I'm glad I did the third change. FCP Euro recommends either two or three cycles (8 or 12 quarts).
      Current Volvo: 2016 S60 T5 Inscription w/Platinum package
      Previous Volvos: 1993 850 GLT (sold in 2016), 1984 240 DL Diesel (sold in 1993)

    10. #8
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      The universal spec is JWS 3324, almost every ATF manufacturer makes compatible fluid.
      2015.5 Volvo V60 T5e w/Polestar

    11. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Novichek View Post
      The universal spec is JWS 3324, almost every ATF manufacturer makes compatible fluid.
      "Compatible" fluid can mean very different things depending on who you ask. Is it something that will work to top off the fluid until you get it to the shop? Or is it marketing so the fluid can be the common denominator on the shelf of a Walmart?

      Toyota (and by extension to its subsidiary Aisin AW) is one of the few transmission OEM that does not license their ATF specification to other manufacturers. There is no such thing as a "Toyota" approved 3rd party transmission fluid. This is in contrast with Ford's MERCON, GM's DEXRON and other OEM licensing system which is the only OEM approvals that can appear on a bottle of ATF from 3rd parties. Here's an example of a Castrol multi ATF that has a Ford MERCON license in a sea of marketing jumbo.

      Here's a look at the full GM DEXRON HP specification tests that 3rd party OEMs have to go through. There's a reason why these 3rd party ATF are so cheap.

      There's a good chance our friend here from the Netherlands have fallen into the Multi ATF trap. The 3rd party ATF could be close enough to last a couple of years; or the worst case scenario, the ATF says something completely misleading like this Valvoline ATF that's "Recommended" for both Toyota Type 4 and Type WS which is something Toyota has gone out of their way to say they're not cross compatible.

      The only ATF I would trust in these Aisin transmission are from Toyota, Aisin, or the Automaker themselves who repackage the identical fluid under their brand; Whether it's Lexus (RX350), GM (Buick Regal), VW (Atlas/Jetta)
      2017 V60 P*

    12. #10
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      The aisin fluid seems to to be difficult to get here in the country, read: nowhere. Called a Volvo dealer for the 31256774 fluid, is costs €21 for a liter. As already mentioned here in the topic, it appears only to be available via dealers, there appears to be no webshop which sells the Toyota fluid/Volvo fluid or aisin fluid. Only from other "3th party" brands (loads cheaper btw). I'm going to call a Toyota dealer tomorrow but am expecting the around the same price. I already payed enough for the flush with probably the wrong oil, so going for the oem this time .

      I got a lot of headache with a previous car (non Volvo) with an automatic gearbox so I don't want to risk it, probaby going for 3x 4 liters with oem fluid.

      Btw, a practical question, am I able to drive the car 100meter with the overfill which is needed before setting the final level? I have to drive the car outside to have it run warm because of the exaust gas.
      Last edited by Blueone; 06-18-2020 at 02:24 PM.

    13. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Venth View Post

      The only ATF I would trust in these Aisin transmission are from Toyota, Aisin, or the Automaker themselves who repackage the identical fluid under their brand; Whether it's Lexus (RX350), GM (Buick Regal), VW (Atlas/Jetta)
      I agree, always used Volvo ATF until FCP Euro was able to source Aisin ATF for $7.99 per liter. However, when choice is limited, one may be forced to settle for the next best thing.
      2015.5 Volvo V60 T5e w/Polestar

    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blueone View Post

      Btw, a practical question, am I able to drive the car 100meter with the overfill which is needed before setting the final level? I have to drive the car outside to have it run warm because of the exaust gas.
      I always put in exact amount (well pretty close) that was drained, plus maybe an additional 150-200ml. I believe this practice makes it safe to drive a short distance for final measuring.
      2015.5 Volvo V60 T5e w/Polestar

    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Novichek View Post
      I always put in exact amount (well pretty close) that was drained, plus maybe an additional 150-200ml. I believe this practice makes it safe to drive a short distance for final measuring.
      Agreed. Slightly overfill is better than slight underfill. Remember: ATF significantly expands as it heats up.

      You already have a scan tool that pulls Transmission temperature?

      P.S: Do not turn off your car when doing the final level process. The fluid in the valve body will drain and giving you a lower fluid level than you need.
      2017 V60 P*

    16. #14
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      Thanks all, I ordered the Volvo fluid and the o-rings etc, probably going to change it next weekend or so , I will let know the results.

    17. #15
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      Today I replaced the oil, starting good with damaging the drainplug , It was very stuck and slipped which damaged the hex nu, I used a socket which was a little bit round at the top which most are, used a cutter to remove the top few mm of the socket and was able to open it. But I'm going to need to change the plug.

      I only got about 3 liter out of it each time instead of the 3-3/4 in the FCP movie, but I was able to set the final level with the running engine, pretty easy actually. It drove smooth but still not perfect and had one hard shift from 3 to 2 or from 2 to 1, so probably the issue isn't resolved but I have to drive a bit more to see if it runs smoother.

      Also find an oil leak of the engine in the left back corner, but unfortunately I had no time anymore, to be continued....

    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blueone View Post
      Today I replaced the oil, starting good with damaging the drainplug , It was very stuck and slipped which damaged the hex nu, I used a socket which was a little bit round at the top which most are, used a cutter to remove the top few mm of the socket and was able to open it. But I'm going to need to change the plug.

      I only got about 3 liter out of it each time instead of the 3-3/4 in the FCP movie, but I was able to set the final level with the running engine, pretty easy actually. It drove smooth but still not perfect and had one hard shift from 3 to 2 or from 2 to 1, so probably the issue isn't resolved but I have to drive a bit more to see if it runs smoother.

      Also find an oil leak of the engine in the left back corner, but unfortunately I had no time anymore, to be continued....
      Definitely sounds like you had low fluid. Did you go through the gears (from Park to Sport and back) each time you drained it?
      Just in case you need the parts for replacement allen-head bolts:
      Drain plug is 31437020. Here's an exploded view for reference.
      2017 V60 P*

    19. #17
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      Thanks for the part number, ordered it right away. I did go through the gears between changes. It is definitly running smoother but still there is some weird behaviour and is feels it holding a little bit back while shifting but less hard. Only from 3 to 2 it goes quite rough sometimes when slowing down.

      But maybe this type of gearbox is simply not as smooth as I'm used to from other cars.

    20. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blueone View Post
      Thanks for the part number, ordered it right away. I did go through the gears between changes. It is definitly running smoother but still there is some weird behaviour and is feels it holding a little bit back while shifting but less hard. Only from 3 to 2 it goes quite rough sometimes when slowing down.

      But maybe this type of gearbox is simply not as smooth as I'm used to from other cars.
      On smoothness, go test drive a similar car to compare. You said you've done a software update in your OP; I take it you did it at a place where Volvos are available?

      At this point, the last suggestion I have for you is resetting the transmission's memory on fluid count and shifting. You should also consider reaching out to a Volvo specialist for help.
      2017 V60 P*

    21. #19
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      I drove another car yesterday (an XC60 D4 with the same gearbox) but it was definitely running smoother). Now after a week of driving after the change it is better in the higher gears but still a problem in the lower gears. A few examples (always hard to explain in writing).

      - It hard shift in the first three gears
      - It holds back a little bit in rest of the gears but very minimal and acceptable.
      - When I let it roll out before a traffic light and if I accelerate before a standstill is goes very hard and with quite a schock. Also when braking and going from 3 tot 2 stays an issue.

      I set the oil counter to zero with Vdash, I couldn't find it in Vida.
      The only other option in Vida is re-learning the transmission but i'm not sure if that is a riskfull operation, there is no reset of the adaptation as far as I can see.

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