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Help with V50 2.4i bad idle and stalling

13K views 78 replies 11 participants last post by  johnaau 
#1 · (Edited)
Help with V50 2.4i bad idle and stalling only when warmed up

I just bought myself an August 2006 manufactured V50 with 2.4 petrol engine (B5244S4), knowing that it had a few problems.

After I bought it, on the 1-hour drive home, once it gets warm (drive for 15 minutes or more) the idle starts fluctuating and it will usually almost stall and often stall. It seems to drive well when it is not idling.

I got it home and found the top of the engine to PCV hose was broken in several places so replaced that, hoping that was the problem. The codes had been cleared due to disconnected battery before I had a chance to read them.

Took it for a 15-minute test drive and it seemed okay but reported a P0190 fuel pressure sensor fault.

The next day I drove it a bit longer and after a 15 minutes, it started idling low and nearly stalling, same as before. I was watching the fuel pressure on Torque OBD scanner and it was consistently high to mid-50 psi. When I got home I checked and cleared the codes again (P0190) but the idle was now different - it was idling high and fluctuating up and down higher around 1,000 rpm and not stalling.

I took a photo of some of the charts I was watching on Torque (see below). You can see how vacuum, throttle and MAF all cycle up and down with the engine idling.

I'm guessing I need a fuel pressure sensor, but I'm not convinced that is part of the idle/stalling problem as I'm assuming that once the check engine light comes on it is going into some failsafe mode.

I am suspicious of the throttle chart cycling up and down but don't know if that is the cause of the issue, or a result of the issue. But I don't know what Torque is displaying for throttle (actual? expected?).

Anybody had a similar problem that might be able to offer some advice? I'm trying to fix myself at this stage (with help from the Internet). Can a FPS cause this idle/stalling issue? Any advice on how to diagnose further? Other possibilities: ETM? MAF? PCV system? Other?

Oh, and I've also got an anti-skid error - can codes for these be read with any generic OBD scanner or is that a VIDA only thing?

 
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#4 ·
You do need a new fuel pressure sensor - iirc, the fuel pressure should be reported at 43psi post-startup. The fact that yours is hanging out higher than that indicates there is a problem.

Additionally, if your V50 has a lot of miles - the throttlebody can wear out in the idle position, and begin to cause stalling problems. It is an expensive fix, so start at the sensor and work your way up.
 
#5 ·
At idle fuel pressure should be 43psi? I thought it was more like 55-60psi after starting up. I could be wrong though.

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#6 ·
Honestly, I am having a hard time remembering if it's 43 or 47psi at idle. We discussed it in EVY0311's main thread about his P0101 code.

IIRC the Maximum fuel pressure allowed by the pump is 80psi, and startup was supposed to be75 or 80% of that. My T5 I know for a fact cruises down the highway at 80mph with 46.6psi at the rail, so I am leaning towards 43psi for idle - but I have to go out to my car and check that at lunchtime.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I'll check VIDA here in a second, I feel like it would give some good insight to this as well. I commented because I had similar issues to OP in my thread we worked on a while ago (it's me!) and while 99% of my issues are gone, my check engine light remains. Never stalls or has a rough idle anymore but does behave weird when coming to a stop.

To fix the stalling, replacing the fuel pressure sensor definitely helped a ton. That, and replacing my throttle body. Overall the car runs much better after doing those two things. The latter is more expensive, but if the first option doesn't fix it I'd definitely try the latter.

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#8 ·
Okay so VIDA states that for the 2.4i, the desired relative fuel line pressure is 380kpa (55.1 psi) and the desired relative fuel line pressure is 480kpa (69 psi). I’m not sure if these are for idle, but it doesn’t say.


More info: after digging deeper, here’s what VIDA says regarding fuel pressure for the 2.4i motor:


Fuel pressure (Pa)
Measurement range 0-1067 kPa.
The parameter indicates absolute pressure.
Normal value 480 +- 5 kPa when idling with the engine at operating temperature. The pressure drops when the ignition is switched off.



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#11 ·
Okay so VIDA states that for the 2.4i, the desired relative fuel line pressure is 380kpa (55.1 psi) and the desired relative fuel line pressure is 480kpa (69 psi). I'm not sure if these are for idle, but it doesn't say.

More info: after digging deeper, here's what VIDA says regarding fuel pressure for the 2.4i motor:

"
Fuel pressure (Pa)
Measurement range 0-1067 kPa.
The parameter indicates absolute pressure.
Normal value 480 +- 5 kPa when idling with the engine at operating temperature. The pressure drops when the ignition is switched off.
"

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Would make sense 55.1psi being post start and 69psi being primed for start. IIRC evy0311's was living at 69psi, which resulted in poorer than normal gas mileage. That means startup is about 90% of max pump capabilities and then it should taper off at idle.

Yes clean first - these things get gunky as all get out...
 
#12 ·
Thanks all. Starting with a FPS then moving on to cleaning the throttle body.

I've also seen some other posts about MAFs causing similar issues but not throwing codes. Can I test this by disconnecting the MAF -- do they have a fail safe mode that should still let it run and idle ok?
 
#13 ·
You can disconnect it but I'm not sure what this would tell you, the car will run very rough as it tries to calculate the air based on engine load. If you have a MAF code thrown it will do this. Yours is likely fine if no code but could be dirty. Ours usually don't play well with cleaning and it's better to replace. If yours needs replacing I have an extra one I can sell to you for cheap, but start in the other places like you mentioned!

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#14 ·
While I am waiting for a new fuel pressure sensor I tried to heat some components with a hair dryer to see if I could induce the fault on a cold engine. I couldn't get the fault to happen when cold so either the hair dryer does not gets components hot enough or I was heating the wrong components. I did notice that as soon as the P0190 is triggered that the fuel pressure goes to 83psi.

I also pulled off the throttle body to give it a clean.

I found some telltale signs that someone has already been in there. First there were some paint marks on the connector presumably so they could see which way to plug it back in or which connector matched which plug. Second it looked pretty clean.

There were some marks on the inside as can hopefully be seen in the photos. First two photos are before cleaning, second set of two is after.

I gave it a clean as much as I could, but have not yet tried the car as I figure seeing I have the intake off I will wait for the FPS.





Can anywork work out which is the manufacture date stamp for the ETM from this photo? Wondering if it is the original or has been replaced. The blue paint makes me this it is a second-hand part from a wrecker.

 
#15 ·
The mark definitely looks like someone had replaced it from a wrecker. It's the correct part number, I believe the date code says it was made in June of 2008, in Hungary (06H08). I might be wrong though, however this does look like a newer throttle body. It might not need to be replaced.

Edit: I just realized Hungary does dates YY/MM, so this actually might be a 2006 august made throttle body, which would line up with your car. It may be original.

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#16 ·
Check and clean throttle body and IAC valve


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#17 ·
#18 · (Edited)
Thorough cleaning of the TB then. And look closely for vacuum leaks.


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#20 ·
I've installed a new fuel pressure sensor and the P0190 code is gone and fuel pressure is now constant at around 55 psi.

At the same time I cleaned the throttle body and cleaned all of the CEM connections.

But the idling issue and stalling is still there. There are now no codes.

The car drives fine for about 15 minutes then at first it just starts idling bad then this progresses to stalling.

Unless anyone has any other ideas I've now got myself a good heat gun and am going to try heating components and seeing if I can induce the problem when the car is cold.

If that doesn't work then I might try a new (used) ETM.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Never mind-petrol. Upstream o2. Doesnt always throw CEL.


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#22 ·
Has your PEM been relocated?
 
#24 · (Edited)
I tried heating up the ETM and then trying a cold start but the problem did not appear until the usual 15 minutes.

I also ran with the MAF disconnected and there was no change. (Note that these cars seem to have a failsafe mode and they run fine with the MAF disconnected so disconnecting the MAF is probably a good test to see if you have a faulty MAF.)

I added engine load and voltage to my watched items in Torque. Voltage dips a little with the up and down idle, not sure whether this could be cause or effect.

I also added a video of a hot start followed by stalling.

I'm not sure what to try next? I don't have much confidence a new ETM will solve the problem.

Someone had a similar problems and said it was a coil, but I can't see how one bad coil would cause idle/stalling issues. Surely it would set a misfire code or something too...?



 
#25 ·
Checking your battery with a good load tester, and perhaps your alternator too, would be a good idea. Issues there will really bring out the gremlins.
 
#26 · (Edited)
To break it down, the engine needs fuel, spark, and air to run correctly (duh lol), so I would start tracing things back. Are your plugs and coils all good? Any misfiring related codes? Vacuum lines have any holes or anything disconnected. Is your exhaust/down pipe rusted that might be causing a back pressure issue? On some cars, a camshaft positioning sensor can cause these issues.

2.4 is a Ford engine and I’ve had Ford ECUs that just decide not to throw codes even though there’s an issue. I wouldn’t rule anything out. I was lucky if my old Taurus ever threw a check engine light. Plugs and coils are cheap and need to be changed as a wear item anyway so doing them might fix it. If it doesn’t, it was still good to do them.
 
#27 ·
2.4 is a Ford engine and I've had Ford ECUs that just decide not to throw codes even though there's an issue.
Just have to say something about this. The 2.4 and 2.4i engines are all-Volvo and they have Denso ECUs. If anything they throw codes early and often.

It is a good suggestion about the exhaust. Is the cat working properly? What's the fuel trim value when this occurs?
 
#28 ·
So i had the starting of the problems here and here's what I noticed before things got bad.

Bad throttlebodies - ETM's, they produce an erratic idle, and they very edgy power delivery. It is significantly smoother when the TB is operating correctly. I can say that was the difference in mine. I would start it, idle would drop to 500rpm and then it would die. Then I'd start it up and it would work fine. Heat or no heat was relatively irrelevant.
Bad plugs - I had some OEM's in there that last 80k. Recently I have accompanied my poor idle with hard starting - cranking longer than normal, etc. I replaced them and now it pickes up much faster on crank and is much more stable at idle.

Those two things would alter your situation pretty directly.

It is weird that you can drive without your MAF. I disconnect mine and I can't start it. I disconnect it while idleing and it dies after some stumbling. It's weird.
 
#32 ·
Replace the PCV.


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#33 ·
0% short term fuel trim means it is not your injectors, fuel pressure, oxygen sensors or catalytic converter.

Agree the PCV is most likely suspect at this point. But other air leak or ETM issue still possible
 
#35 ·
Generally no, they are almost completely passive devices, operating only in response to pressure. Some have an electrical connection however.

Test by checking the crankcase vacuum under idle. Should be slightly negative.

Are you certain you've eliminated the evap purge valve? Disconnecting it only removes the activation signal.
 
#39 ·
My assumption with the EVAP valve was that there might be a vacuum leak only when the valve was open (Volvo documentation says the valve will only operate when car is up to temperature). So I waited for my idle/stalling issue to happen and disconnected the electrical connection to the valve to see if it made a change (assume valve would close if disconnected and there would no longer be a vacuum leak). Is there another test that you think I should do?

I'm also going to try disconnecting the plug to the PCV to see if that makes a difference. I believe it is for heating the system.
 
#36 ·
I change the PCV breather every three years or 30k. I believe Volvo recommends 30-50k. Turbo cars need it more frequently. Plus mine sits 4 months every year. I’ve swapped it twice thus far and I’m just now at 33k. FCP Euro with lifetime replacement. I think the second one was $24usd.
For shipping. If your regular and diligent on oil change intervals you will get more life out of them. Follow the I never need to change oil bs and youll be in for a mess down the road.
 
#37 ·
I change the PCV breather every three years or 30k. I believe Volvo recommends 30-50k. Turbo cars need it more frequently. Plus mine sits 4 months every year. I've swapped it twice thus far and I'm just now at 33k. FCP Euro with lifetime replacement. I think the second one was $24usd.
For shipping. If your regular and diligent on oil change intervals you will get more life out of them. Follow the I never need to change oil bs and youll be in for a mess down the road.
At 80k, haven't needed to change yet. Changed oil religiously every 5k. Always synthetic.
 
#40 ·
I ran it again just now. I couldn't find a way of reaching the electrical connector on the PCV valve without removing the airbox? Is that the only way? That might have to wait until I have some more time unfortunately.

I tried heating the cam sensor, coils and anything else in that area to see if the problem happened on a cold start, but it still took a 15 minute drive to get it to fail.

After the problem started, and it stalled a few times, on one restart it ran real rough and was idling too high but still up and down. While it was doing this the anti skid light came on and a message about anti skid system disabled or something similar. For a few starts it was still running rough like this and then on another restart it went back to its usual idle too low and stalling.

One more thing I noticed today was that once it gets hot enough for the problem to happen, if I roll down a hill in neutral it will idle fine. It's only once I come to a stop that it starts to idle bad and stall. There must be something being activated at that point that is part of the problem ???

I've got another videos if it helps.

This one is a recording of this weird hot start where it started okay then started running rough and the anti-skid light/warning came on at the same time. This is not the usual problem but it is the second time it has run like this. I left it idling on its own, but at around 1 minute I gave it a small rev to see what happened. I then turned it off and restarted and it stalled.

 
#42 · (Edited)
I ran it again just now. I couldn't find a way of reaching the electrical connector on the PCV valve without removing the airbox? Is that the only way? That might have to wait until I have some more time unfortunately.

I tried heating the cam sensor, coils and anything else in that area to see if the problem happened on a cold start, but it still took a 15 minute drive to get it to fail.

After the problem started, and it stalled a few times, on one restart it ran real rough and was idling too high but still up and down. While it was doing this the anti skid light came on and a message about anti skid system disabled or something similar. For a few starts it was still running rough like this and then on another restart it went back to its usual idle too low and stalling.

One more thing I noticed today was that once it gets hot enough for the problem to happen, if I roll down a hill in neutral it will idle fine. It's only once I come to a stop that it starts to idle bad and stall. There must be something being activated at that point that is part of the problem ???
Regarding the electrical connection to the PCV, yes it's a heater - the connector provides supply voltage, energized from the ECM. I suspect it is only provided on cars which were delivered to cold climates. It seems that it's missing on Florida cars, for example. It shares a fuse with other important stuff. Might be worth finding a way to wiggle in there to disconnect it.

I doubt that the issue is heat. If the car reliably dies at the 15-minute mark, it's probably not a coincidence. But if you have the time to give each component a spa treatment, go for it.

I'm highly interested in your (new?) observation that the anti-skid light comes on. Without knowing the diagnostic code that threw it, I'm going to guess it's a lost communication issue regarding the BCM. This in turn can be caused by a module crashing because of flaky power. Any number of other issues can occur if this is happening. I strongly suggest you take a much closer look at your battery, battery and battery ground connections, and alternator.

No idea about rolling downhill. I could guess about crap in the fuel tank, but that would be a huge stretch.

What diagnostic tools do you have access to? It's getting to be time for this.
 
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