2005 s60 no start, no fuel pressure
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    1. #1
      Senior Member ZZZZZZZ's Avatar
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      2005 s60 no start, no fuel pressure

      Had a family emergency an hour away. We drove the s60 and it was great, as it has been for over the last 8 years. It was about 3 am before we finally returned home and the car was really low on fuel.
      The next morning the car did not start. Figuring it was out of gas, my son went and got a gallon in a small filler and we added it. Nothing. Cranks but will not start.

      I pulled out the VIDA laptop, hooked it up and see a signal to a fuel pump when I crank (on). I see the nominal rate of pressure as 480 kpa and my reading fluctuates (jumpy) around 80 to 90, but just figured with the car not started it was low. Went to the rail. Added a rag to prevent any spray, and pressed on the schrader valve. Nothing.

      We drove to the eastern shore in the VR because we needed to get there to help (like the family emergency was going to improve 3 hours away ).

      When I got there, ScottishBrick got me excited to think it may be IMM related and simply do a hard reset. This morning I removed both terminal cables and held them together for a solid 3 minutes. Reattached both tightly and cranked it. Nothing.

      I don't think the fuel filter is that old and it would have to be a full blockage to prevent ANYTHING from coming through to the rail.

      If the fuel pump shows as on when I crank, what else could it be? Please help suggest things that won't be too difficult to do. I'm game before I send this to the indy nearly 40 miles away. I know we're all mostly in the same boat: I am down a LOT of money right now due to deferred bonuses, and every cent helps.
      "The Real IPD" - ZZZZZZZ's thread
      2007 Passion Red/Gobi VRgt; 2005 Silver/Beige Leather S60 2.5T AWD; 2002 Silver/Off black leather V70XC
      Past: 1999 Tropic Blue/Green/Oak leather V70 (NAa); Mom traded 1975 Maroon/Maroon leather 164E

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    3. #2
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      Quote Originally Posted by ZZZZZZZ View Post
      got a gallon in a small filler
      First - try putting more gas in - you have a saddle gas tank, it arches over the driveshaft and pulls gas from both sides. If the tank is empty on one side or the car is parked at an angle - there will be no/not enough fuel pressure.

    4. #3
      Senior Member ZZZZZZZ's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by hoonk View Post
      First - try putting more gas in - you have a saddle gas tank, it arches over the driveshaft and pulls gas from both sides. If the tank is empty on one side or the car is parked at an angle - there will be no/not enough fuel pressure.
      Sounds good. We will add more fuel and reset again. Thanks. Fingers crossed.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      "The Real IPD" - ZZZZZZZ's thread
      2007 Passion Red/Gobi VRgt; 2005 Silver/Beige Leather S60 2.5T AWD; 2002 Silver/Off black leather V70XC
      Past: 1999 Tropic Blue/Green/Oak leather V70 (NAa); Mom traded 1975 Maroon/Maroon leather 164E

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    6. #4
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      Wondering if it could be the fuel pressure sensor since that's an item that can require replacing on our cars...

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      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

    7. #5
      Junior Member Orange's Avatar
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      Is the car parked on an incline ? If it's rather level, adding a few gallons should help indeed. If that doesn't work, try to find the issue step by step, that garage may start saying "fuel pump" and keep replacing parts. The pump on these cars sits in a cup that's always filled with gasoline to cool it down, so it should not overheat with low gas. First thing would be the pump is sucking air - thus the low fuel pressure. Second, maybe the fuel pressure sensor was already faulty and failed from lack of fuel pressure? Also try not to crank it too much, it puts stress on the starter
      Last edited by Orange; 07-28-2020 at 12:41 PM.

    8. #6
      Senior Member ZZZZZZZ's Avatar
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      Thanks Orange & Phixion -

      I have another two gallons outside waiting. Just need to finish work day and give it a shot. For good measure I think I will reset again after adding the fuel.
      The car is level, and the Bosch FPS is maybe 18 months old. If still giving a problem, I may have another to try or may see if the FPS is giving a reading that is chaotic. That's why I replaced this part to begin with. I remember it being bitter cold and very dark. These things never seem to happen on a 68 degree day with a breeze... LAST thing I can afford is someone replacing parts willy-nilly.

      If I can find a quiet time, shouldn't I hear the pump? Where is the best place to hear it? Will it kick on each time we insert the key and turn to 1 because it's preparing to run it kicks on?

      Also reading this... kinda foreign language to me.
      https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/fo...ic.php?t=66777

      Quote Originally Posted by Orange View Post
      Is the car parked on an incline? If it's rather level, adding a few gallons should help indeed. If that doesn't work, try to find the issue step by step, that garage may start saying "fuel pump" and keep replacing parts. The pump on these cars sits in a cup that's always filled with gasoline to cool it down, so it should not overheat with low gas. First thing would be the pump is sucking air - thus the low fuel pressure. Second, maybe the fuel pressure sensor was already faulty and failed from lack of fuel pressure? Also try not to crank it too much, it puts stress on the starter
      Quote Originally Posted by Phixion View Post
      Wondering if it could be the fuel pressure sensor since that's an item that can require replacing on our cars...
      Last edited by ZZZZZZZ; 07-28-2020 at 04:04 PM.
      "The Real IPD" - ZZZZZZZ's thread
      2007 Passion Red/Gobi VRgt; 2005 Silver/Beige Leather S60 2.5T AWD; 2002 Silver/Off black leather V70XC
      Past: 1999 Tropic Blue/Green/Oak leather V70 (NAa); Mom traded 1975 Maroon/Maroon leather 164E

    9. #7
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      I would think you'd hear the fuel pump toward the rear of the car down low near the fuel tank, passenger side? I am also thinking PEM but that's just a guess.
      Past: '94 854, '99 S70 T5 SE, '99 S70 GLT, '04 S60R M, '12 S60 T5, '13 S60 T5, '15 S60 RD, '05 V70R GT
      Present: '95 854 T-5R, '06 XC70, '15 XC70 T6, '15.5 XC60 T6, '16 V60 P*

    10. #8
      Senior Member ZZZZZZZ's Avatar
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      Now I'm sweating from a 20 minute 100F venture outside.

      There was a development. 3 gallons of gas now: Did another hard reset. Heard the pump kick on with key in first position. Cranked and it briefly tried to catch and then died, never actually starting. Cranked again and nothing.
      a. how long do I really need to do a hard reset? I'd always read it was 3 minutes. Maybe it's shorter and has the same effect?
      b. If it starts, what's my first duty? Log all codes and see what may need attention (like possibly FPS, etc.)? Get on the road and get a full tank a half mile away if it runs for a few minutes uninterrupted?
      c. what does it mean if I heard the pump and it tried to get started but stopped? Failing? I guess I need to monitor the fuel pressure now that we have 3 gallons.
      d. Is the PEM VIN coded? Can I snag one from a yard or elsewhere to swap in and see if that does it? Would it have a code to say for sure that it's dead? I see this video and seem easy enough to do the work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5IamheSetA
      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne T5 View Post
      I would think you'd hear the fuel pump toward the rear of the car down low near the fuel tank, passenger side? I am also thinking PEM but that's just a guess.
      "The Real IPD" - ZZZZZZZ's thread
      2007 Passion Red/Gobi VRgt; 2005 Silver/Beige Leather S60 2.5T AWD; 2002 Silver/Off black leather V70XC
      Past: 1999 Tropic Blue/Green/Oak leather V70 (NAa); Mom traded 1975 Maroon/Maroon leather 164E

    11. #9
      Junior Member Orange's Avatar
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      PEM is plug & play on all years 2003-up and all Volvo models. This is a good place to look for one https://youtu.be/3a1MUPMLTG0
      You have a fuel pump fuse in the fuse panel inside the engine bay, location on the sticker under the top cover. But I suspect it's fine since you mention the pump does spin.
      I have the idea something happened with the pump when it went really low in gas. Maybe the suction hose got detached from the pump when it sucked air in (like did a 'spasm'). Ore maybe the fuel filter went bad? It's interesting more gas helped a little like the pump can suck better the gas from the fluid level pressure. Can you try starting with the fuel cap removed ? Just ideas. How many miles on it? Did the battery happen to go flat that night ? If you run out of idea, see this interesting thread with pics of a dirty fuel pump https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...=1450975000667
      Last edited by Orange; 07-28-2020 at 04:59 PM.

    12. #10
      Senior Member ZZZZZZZ's Avatar
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      Yeah - I just watched a vid of a guy doing diagnostic and repair on one and he determined from testing that the PEM is a dumb module. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCKLM8QUJ8g I don't like the fact that he ignores some of the other maintenance that was suggested but overall he's spot on and right with some of the simple things to check after getting a mega laundry list from a dealer. Have someone who knows the cars review the list and see if really needed. Second opinion is always good before spending bank.

      Plug & Play module (yes!) and LOVE the location on the P1 s40 2nd gen and the V50 per Peppermint's video, so thanks for both pieces of info. It looks like I have several possibilities for PEM harvesting including a car that arrived yesterday at the LKQ near me. I'll try the cap off and add a gallon or two more. I might have to start jumping it soon if I keep this up. Battery getting weak, especially in this heat. I'm gonna check fuse anyway, and look for my PEM (hoping it is in the trunk not under) just so I know. Pretty sure I've seen on PS in back. Also will hook up VIDA and see what other things I can flag and see while cranking that might be relevant and will report back.

      Super hopeful it's not a dropped hose...

      Quote Originally Posted by Orange View Post
      PEM is plug & play on all years 2003-up and all Volvo models. This is a good place to look for one https://youtu.be/3a1MUPMLTG0
      You have a fuel pump fuse in the fuse panel inside the engine bay, location on the sticker under the top cover. But I suspect it's fine since you mention the pump does spin.
      I have the idea something happened with the pump when it went really low in gas. Maybe the suction hose got detached from the pump when it sucked air in (like did a 'spasm'). Ore maybe the fuel filter went bad? It's interesting more gas helped a little like the pump can suck better the gas from the fluid level pressure. Can you try starting with the fuel cap removed ? Just ideas. How many miles on it? Did the battery happen to go flat that night ? If you run out of idea, see this interesting thread with pics of a dirty fuel pump https://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...=1450975000667
      "The Real IPD" - ZZZZZZZ's thread
      2007 Passion Red/Gobi VRgt; 2005 Silver/Beige Leather S60 2.5T AWD; 2002 Silver/Off black leather V70XC
      Past: 1999 Tropic Blue/Green/Oak leather V70 (NAa); Mom traded 1975 Maroon/Maroon leather 164E

    13. #11
      Senior Member ZZZZZZZ's Avatar
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      Family emergency got worse Tues night and now I'm desperately trying to get this car running before we have to leave.
      My s60 PEM isn't in the trunk, and it does look a little crusty.

      a. If I do a hard reset with 3 minutes of no battery and cables together, the pump primes when I use the key, so I think power and fuses are good. How long before pump primes again? Does the system wait a specified time? Used to be with old cars, you could key on, prime, key on, prime. Does the PEM tell the pump to stop? Therefore it's dead-ish?
      b. I can relocate the PEM to the trunk by the spare to keep it safer like later P2s, but how hard is this to do? I do NOT have the time right now to pull the entire back seat out and pull wires all through and splice stuff, etc. Maybe at a later date. Is it possible to use existing harness or would I need a new one to do it?
      c. If indeed the PEM, should I have any preventive measure like a bit of a seal between plastic and heat sink to keep it living longer?
      "The Real IPD" - ZZZZZZZ's thread
      2007 Passion Red/Gobi VRgt; 2005 Silver/Beige Leather S60 2.5T AWD; 2002 Silver/Off black leather V70XC
      Past: 1999 Tropic Blue/Green/Oak leather V70 (NAa); Mom traded 1975 Maroon/Maroon leather 164E

    14. #12
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      Before ya condemn the PEM do this. It worked for me when I had no start after replacing the FP. Key on until the pump stops. Depress shrader valve to dump air and gas. Do that 2 times. Then cycle key on and off a few times. Quickly step on gas pedal a couple of times with the key on position 2. Then try starting. Hope it works for ya.

    15. #13
      Senior Member ZZZZZZZ's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by chefricky View Post
      Before ya condemn the PEM do this. It worked for me when I had no start after replacing the FP. Key on until the pump stops. Depress shrader valve to dump air and gas. Do that 2 times. Then cycle key on and off a few times. Quickly step on gas pedal a couple of times with the key on position 2. Then try starting. Hope it works for ya.
      Well, I didn’t see this but the PEM was kinda crusty and the filter was old too. Didn’t think it was but while not original it was old. I have replaced in XC and vr but not this car but thought i had. Logically it was likely the filter all along. I mean we did run it really low and it probably sucked a big fatty into the filter. In my ZZZZZZZ thread I walked though in detail what I did but I got it started for a lot of effort and 67 bucks but no tow and not several hundred. It runs but now I need to fix the sheared bolt for the filter bracket. Thank you everyone for the help!


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      "The Real IPD" - ZZZZZZZ's thread
      2007 Passion Red/Gobi VRgt; 2005 Silver/Beige Leather S60 2.5T AWD; 2002 Silver/Off black leather V70XC
      Past: 1999 Tropic Blue/Green/Oak leather V70 (NAa); Mom traded 1975 Maroon/Maroon leather 164E

    16. #14
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      "sheared bolt for the filter bracket." It's always something on old cars, you have an idea of what is not working, get in there to fix it, and find yourself with 3 or 4 unexpected problems usually due to corrosion or decomposed rubber. Glad to hear that you got it running!

    17. #15
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      Glad to hear as well that you got this issue resolved. I just bought a spare FPS to have on hand just in case since my is original. I guess in this instance, I'm glad that I have a CA car with a steel tank and no fuel filter.
      2004 S60 2.5T - Stock for now...

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