Flywheel separating?? Big $$
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    1. #1
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      Flywheel separating?? Big $$

      Hey All,

      2007 S60 R M66
      138.5k miles

      Stopped at a light yesterday and the clutch pedal sank to the floor. Eventually came back up and pressure was restored enough and got better throughout the next 15 minutes of driving. However, pedal feels grainy, as if there is sand or something rough in the pedal travel. It's also overall spongey and sticky.

      Shop says the flywheel is coming apart, but the clutch itself might still be good. Referred me to the dealer though, because they don't have the tool to do a dual mass flywheel! Says it could be like $4k!!!

      Thoughts? Advice? This one is outside my DIY wheelhouse.

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    3. #2
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      Switch to the single mass flywheel. Viva sells a complete kit: https://www.vivaperformance.com/clut...-transmission/

      I'd also suggest taking the car to an independent shop, not a dealer. Look around, you should be able to find a Volvo specialty shop or at least a shop with good reviews from locals. Dealers charge dealer labor rates, which are always more than independent shops.

      Viva also sells the tool, so even if you had to buy it, you would still be a lot less than $4k: https://www.vivaperformance.com/genu...l-kit-3-piece/

      You might be able to find a different shop that has the tool or is willing to buy the tool, or even a local that has the tool you could borrow.
      Last edited by Enraged; 07-31-2020 at 10:44 AM.
      | 04 V70R Titanium Grey/Nordkap M66 | Hilton Stage 2 | Mototec DP & Touring Exhaust | ERST Springs | Summer Mode: 18" Fast FC04A | Winter Mode: 18" Pegs |

    4. #3
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      The shop I sent to is dedicated to Volvo's... but doesn't have the tool because they supposedly run into this once every five years or so.

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    6. #4
      Junior Member stomish's Avatar
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      Flywheel separating?? Big $$

      Quote Originally Posted by RKing93 View Post
      The shop I sent to is dedicated to Volvo's... but doesn't have the tool because they supposedly run into this once every five years or so.
      “Dedicated to Volvos” and “not having a P2 clutch alignment tool” are kinda two things that don’t really go together... If they’re truly a Volvo dedicated shop, they should have one, and they should probably be doing a clutch more then once every 5 year unless you’re located in the absolute middle of nowhere and it’s a one man operation with zero advertising.


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    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by stomish View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by RKing93 View Post
      The shop I sent to is dedicated to Volvo's... but doesn't have the tool because they supposedly run into this once every five years or so.
      “Dedicated to Volvos” and “not having a P2 clutch alignment tool” are kinda two things that don’t really go together... If they’re truly a Volvo dedicated shop, they should have one, and they should probably be doing a clutch more then once every 5 year unless you’re located in the absolute middle of nowhere and it’s a one man operation with zero advertising.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Well I don't know what to tell ya... Both Volvo shops in this area do not have it. Tallahassee, Florida.
      Last edited by RKing93; 07-31-2020 at 11:29 AM.

    8. #6
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      So how many manual transmission Volvos are there in any given area?

      When I was looking to purchase back in 2005 there were ZERO to be found on any dealer lots in Arizona. So 15 years later with the decline in new manufacture of MT vehicles overall and the loss of older ones, how many shops would have specialized tools for MT vehicles?
      2006 V70R MT
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    9. #7
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      Right, that's what I'm saying. Generally feel like I'm being sassed when I have no control over that particular aspect of the situation!

      Anyway, the shop was super cool: They cleared a code and gave me a briefing on what they thought on the clutch and some other bits... Didn't even charge me! Said take the care, no problem!

      Ok, so the car is still driving ok. Wonder if the clutch just needs to be bled?

    10. #8
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      If it was me, I'd tell them to buy the tool, or they lose the job.

      Sounds like maybe your clutch slave might be failing?
      | 04 V70R Titanium Grey/Nordkap M66 | Hilton Stage 2 | Mototec DP & Touring Exhaust | ERST Springs | Summer Mode: 18" Fast FC04A | Winter Mode: 18" Pegs |

    11. #9
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      Oh yeah, they willingly referred the job to the local dealership

      Could be the slave cylinder. Just don't know enough to further diagnose it! They specifically said that the flywheel is separating...??

    12. #10
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      They make generic clutch alignment tools, and they are cheap. Its a tapered style alignment tool that has different size fittings that go into the pilot bushing. We've been a Volvo shop since 79 and have not needed the Volvo specific tool, on the R's, although they do call for one.

      As far as how many clutches do we do? Hardly ever...Its ONLY on R's, Since the manuals are going the way of the dinosaur with Volvo.

    13. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by stomish View Post
      “Dedicated to Volvos” and “not having a P2 clutch alignment tool” are kinda two things that don’t really go together... If they’re truly a Volvo dedicated shop, they should have one, and they should probably be doing a clutch more then once every 5 year unless you’re located in the absolute middle of nowhere and it’s a one man operation with zero advertising.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I have worked in a Euro specialty shop for 15 years and worked on so many P2s that I bought one because of how reliable they are and how easy they are to work on. And I have only ever seen ONE with a manual transmission in my whole career. (A 2.4l front drive)
      '06 S60 R GT (B5244T5 powered as of 230k)
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    14. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Enraged View Post
      If it was me, I'd tell them to buy the tool, or they lose the job.

      The wise choice then would be to lose the job! If a specialty tool costs, say, $200, that eats away all the profit from a job like that.
      Or - dirty litte secret - if you have a car that requires a specialty tool that they do not have and they cannot borrow from another shop - YOU are going to pay for the tool, via some hidden extra markup on parts and/or labor.

      Businesses need to make money to survive, otherwise they couldn't exist.
      '06 S60 R GT (B5244T5 powered as of 230k)
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    15. #13
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      I bought the Volvo clutch tool a few years back. I have done 3 manuals since then. I have at least another one to do here soon. There are few manuals and the clutches are pretty good lasting a long time from what I’ve seen. Glück with your powertrain issue.

    16. #14
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      Iirc from the Volvo manual, the tool is not for alignment but for resetting the pressure plate since it is self adjusting. If you install a new pressure plate and friction disc, it's a non issue.

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    17. #15
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      The car is driving fine now. Bled the clutch last night the "reverse" way as posted here: https://youtu.be/NtOOyN0vVeg

      Seemed to help the "grainy" feel a little... Not sure, though.

      Maybe there was a bubble in the system that sent the pedal to the floor! I'll wait for it to happen again before taking further action.

    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by RKing93 View Post
      The car is driving fine now. Bled the clutch last night the "reverse" way as posted here: https://youtu.be/NtOOyN0vVeg

      Seemed to help the "grainy" feel a little... Not sure, though.

      Maybe there was a bubble in the system that sent the pedal to the floor! I'll wait for it to happen again before taking further action.
      Nice trick on the clutch bleed. Danke!

    19. #17
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      Are they sure the flywheel is is separating? Unless they pulled the starter and looked into the trans im not sure how they could know that.
      Potentially could be your slave cylinder it sounds like since the factory ones have had issues.

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    20. #18
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      Nah they didn't remove anything, just drove it. I'm thinking this whole thing is a big bologna sandwich and that the clutch bleed fixed it!

    21. #19
      Member Hounddogger's Avatar
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      It's likely the slave cylinder... Which means the clutch is toast from brake fluid contamination. Any clutch kit will come with the clutch alignment tool... You will need to replace the flywheel... Buy a single mass kit.
      Exponents kill
      Elsa: 2004 V70R Silver Metallic&Nordkap Back from Valhalla @ 357,098 miles

    22. #20
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      It tanked today... fluid spilled out the bottom of the car. Oh well, at least I tried with the clutch bleed.

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by RKing93 View Post
      It tanked today... fluid spilled out the bottom of the car. Oh well, at least I tried with the clutch bleed.
      Slave cylinder for sure, then. I doubt there's anything wrong with your flywheel, but the tranny has to come off to replace the slave cylinder, so you might as well change the clutch while you're in there. You may want to consider taking it to a shop that isn't trying to blow smoke up your ass, though.

    24. #22
      Member Hounddogger's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mobeus View Post
      Slave cylinder for sure, then. I doubt there's anything wrong with your flywheel, but the tranny has to come off to replace the slave cylinder, so you might as well change the clutch while you're in there. You may want to consider taking it to a shop that isn't trying to blow smoke up your ass, though.
      I would pretty much assume the DMF is outside of limits for differential rotation between the halves...
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    25. #23
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      What do people mean when they say "spec" flywheel??

      I want to order the ViVa kit, but they are not answering the phone......

      I have questions!

    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by RKing93 View Post
      What do people mean when they say "spec" flywheel??

      I want to order the ViVa kit, but they are not answering the phone......

      I have questions!
      They mean the company spec its a single mass flywheel vs dual

      Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    27. #25
      Member Body Massage's Avatar
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      I have the single mass flywheel from viva in my wagon. What are your questions?

      Also, New England is getting hit by remnants of the tropical storm, it's possible viva might be having problems, too. I've lost power twice, and I live like 15 minutes from Connor.
      2005 V70R

      2010 C30 R-Design

    28. #26
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      Company spec as in Volvo? The car came from the factory with DMF, though. Can you clarify a bit more? Thanks.

    29. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Body Massage View Post
      I have the single mass flywheel from viva in my wagon. What are your questions?

      Also, New England is getting hit by remnants of the tropical storm, it's possible viva might be having problems, too. I've lost power twice, and I live like 15 minutes from Connor.
      Ok I PM'd you!

    30. #28
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      Some concerns:

      1. Dealership warranties clutch for defects for 2 years, and the slave cylinder/throw-out bearing is lifetime warranty of parts and labor. No warranty if I go with ViVa kit. What would you do?

      2. Just to be clear... This kit is all I need to buy and give to them? https://www.vivaperformance.com/clut...-transmission/

      2007, S60 R M66

      Thank you!

    31. #29
      Banner Advertiser George @ ViVA's Avatar
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      Hi,

      Yes, we did lose power this afternoon due to the storm! So we had to close the offices early

      We would be happy to help you get the car back on the road; please feel free to email us with any questions in the meantime: [email protected]

    32. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by RKing93 View Post
      Company spec as in Volvo? The car came from the factory with DMF, though. Can you clarify a bit more? Thanks.
      "Spec" is the name of a company that makes single mass flywheels. Replacing the dual mass flywheel with a single mass flywheel (from Spec or another company) is a popular pastime with R owners. For whatever reason, people seem to think DMFs just fly apart after 100K miles, and replacing them with a SMF will make your drivetrain bullet proof and your car super fast.

      There's a grain of truth in that statement, and if you just have $1000 to burn, there's no harm in replacing the DMF with a SMF, but if you really want to make your car faster, that money can be better burnt elsewhere.

      FTR: yes, I have a SMF in my car, and no, there was nothing wrong with my DMF (with 109K miles on it) when it was replaced.
      Last edited by mobeus; 08-05-2020 at 08:34 AM.

    33. #31
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      The DMF costs more (DMF + clutch kit vs SMF kit) and weighs more, 26 lbs vs 18 lbs. So the engine will rev faster and you will save some money. What's the downside? NVH?
      | 04 V70R Titanium Grey/Nordkap M66 | Hilton Stage 2 | Mototec DP & Touring Exhaust | ERST Springs | Summer Mode: 18" Fast FC04A | Winter Mode: 18" Pegs |

    34. #32
      Senior Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Enraged View Post
      The DMF costs more (DMF + clutch kit vs SMF kit) and weighs more, 26 lbs vs 18 lbs. So the engine will rev faster and you will save some money. What's the downside? NVH?
      Gear chatter at idle. Because of the firing order. Redline shockproof helps a lot.
      2003 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - M56LK - 209k - K24/Greens/Do88/Quaife/SMF/P2R Clutch/DW300C/H&R/Bilstein TC/316mm & 308mm Brakes - SteveO Tuned
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    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Enraged View Post
      The DMF costs more (DMF + clutch kit vs SMF kit) and weighs more, 26 lbs vs 18 lbs. So the engine will rev faster and you will save some money. What's the downside? NVH?
      His car only has 130K miles. If it hasn't been abused, then it's unlikely there is anything wrong with his flywheel.

    36. #34
      Senior Member ScottishBrick's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mobeus View Post
      His car only has 130K miles. If it hasn't been abused, then it's unlikely there is anything wrong with his flywheel.
      Hardly. Grandma driven T5Ms have 0.030” play at 100k. The dual mass flywheel is a wear item and should be replaced every 100k. If you care about clutch feel. If not, **** it.
      2003 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - M56LK - 209k - K24/Greens/Do88/Quaife/SMF/P2R Clutch/DW300C/H&R/Bilstein TC/316mm & 308mm Brakes - SteveO Tuned
      1999 V70 T5 - Pewter/R Graphite & Alcantara - AW42 - 303k - Daily/Work Wagon
      1999 V70 T5 - Nautic/R Graphite & Alcantara - M56H - 177k - Rescued
      1999 V70 T5 - Emerald/Graphite - M56H - 119k - Garage Queen
      2000 V70 T5 - Mystic/Graphite - AW42 - 245k - Moms Unicorn
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    37. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by ScottishBrick View Post
      Gear chatter at idle. Because of the firing order. Redline shockproof helps a lot.
      I used Severe Gear, and the chatter didn't really stop.

      The IPD exhaust/Snabb DP did, though....
      2005 V70R

      2010 C30 R-Design

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