gotta put the ocean race on a diet...rear brake pads at 40k miles?
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    1. #1
      Junior Member hackR's Avatar
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      gotta put the ocean race on a diet...rear brake pads at 40k miles?

      had my 2018 v90 cc ocean race in for its 40k service, along with tire rotation and software update...the oem pirelli tire lasted only 30k miles...so far my Goodyear Exhilerates are wearing and performing well after 10k miles...

      i was a bit surpised to learn/see that my rear brake pads were at 2mm while my front brake pads were between 6-7 mm...the dealer service manager said that their experience with the SPA series is that there's more rear braking than front...

      information for what its worth...

      enjoy - R

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    3. #2
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      seems to be a common theme...my 2012 s60 does the same thing.

    4. #3
      Junior Member LukeFlynn's Avatar
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      Basically any volvo with an electronic rear parking brake will have this issue. It's not uncommon to see outer rear pads at 6-7mm and the inners be 1.5 or 2. This goes back to roughly 2011 on the P3 s60. SPA is slightly worse because of pilot assist and all the city safety stuff.

      40K actually sounds pretty decent for a SPA car, I've replaced them sooner
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    6. #4
      Junior Member fusace's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by hackR View Post
      had my 2018 v90 cc ocean race in for its 40k service, along with tire rotation and software update...the oem pirelli tire lasted only 30k miles...so far my Goodyear Exhilerates are wearing and performing well after 10k miles...

      i was a bit surpised to learn/see that my rear brake pads were at 2mm while my front brake pads were between 6-7 mm...the dealer service manager said that their experience with the SPA series is that there's more rear braking than front...

      information for what its worth...

      enjoy - R
      Did you end up replacing the brake pads at the dealer? If you don't mind, how much did they cost? Were the rotors ok? I have 11,500 mi on my car and considering purchasing the wear protection (limited to under 10,000 mi, not sure I will qualify). Thanks!

    7. #5
      Junior Member hackR's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by fusace View Post
      Did you end up replacing the brake pads at the dealer? If you don't mind, how much did they cost? Were the rotors ok? I have 11,500 mi on my car and considering purchasing the wear protection (limited to under 10,000 mi, not sure I will qualify). Thanks!
      the rotors were fine so I didn't need to replace them...

      yes - replaced the rear brake pads...$303 total...1.5 hours for $172.50 labor...$130 parts...

      R

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by hackR View Post
      the rotors were fine so I didn't need to replace them...

      yes - replaced the rear brake pads...$303 total...1.5 hours for $172.50 labor...$130 parts...

      R
      I think this is not bad at all!

    9. #7
      Junior Member ru1's Avatar
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      This seems to be related with the pilot assist: - as it regulates the speed, for example when going behind another car, the system uses the rear brakes to do this. Thus the extra wear on the rear pads/rotors.
      This has nothing to do with hand break as the hand break is used when the car is stationary and so, basically, it does not wear anything.
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    10. #8
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      On top of the pilot assist using the rear brakes, and putting more wear on the rears than the fronts. I have also heard that due to SPA cars being so chubby (heavy), the cars subtly use the rear brakes to stabilize the car to stabilize the car when going into corner to quickly, or if needed, to swerve.

    11. #9
      Junior Member mattlach's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by hackR View Post
      had my 2018 v90 cc ocean race in for its 40k service, along with tire rotation and software update...the oem pirelli tire lasted only 30k miles...so far my Goodyear Exhilerates are wearing and performing well after 10k miles...

      i was a bit surpised to learn/see that my rear brake pads were at 2mm while my front brake pads were between 6-7 mm...the dealer service manager said that their experience with the SPA series is that there's more rear braking than front...

      information for what its worth...

      enjoy - R
      This is a well publicized issue for which I tried to start a dedicated thread here.

      If you got 40k out of the rear brakes, you did much better than most. Many reports have people replacing them ever 15k miles.

    12. #10
      Junior Member mattlach's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ru1 View Post
      This has nothing to do with hand break as the hand break is used when the car is stationary and so, basically, it does not wear anything.
      Not entirely true. The auto hand brake applies every time you stop for more than a short time period.

      When you decided to start moving again, it releases automatically, but for a fraction of a second when you start moving the engine is pulling against the parking brake, causing wear. it's slight, but do this over and over and over again and it adds up.

    13. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by mattlach View Post
      Not entirely true. The auto hand brake applies every time you stop for more than a short time period.

      When you decided to start moving again, it releases automatically, but for a fraction of a second when you start moving the engine is pulling against the parking brake, causing wear. it's slight, but do this over and over and over again and it adds up.
      Yes, it adds up - to just about nothing and not part of the equation to blame on rapid wear of the rear pads. (IMO)

    14. #12
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      Does the autopilot use ONLY the rear brakes? I have my car with just 1000 miles at the dealership because among others I had vibrations during braking. The car is still with them but they called me and told me that the front rotors were warped and they replaced them under warranty. If the reason of the vibrations were warped front rotors and the autopilot only uses the rear brakes, why did I have the vibrations also when the autopilot was braking?

    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jack2020 View Post
      Does the autopilot use ONLY the rear brakes? I have my car with just 1000 miles at the dealership because among others I had vibrations during braking. The car is still with them but they called me and told me that the front rotors were warped and they replaced them under warranty. If the reason of the vibrations were warped front rotors and the autopilot only uses the rear brakes, why did I have the vibrations also when the autopilot was braking?
      First off, I don't know if anyone has said "only" rear brakes or you're just asking a question.
      IMO - in this case, it is a combination of braking by the front/rear. How much ??? - and I don't think anyone else knows. Unless a statement is made by Volvo it's all guessing. (As I am doing with this post).
      It would seem logical that if your front rotors are warped and the car applies braking in autopilot you would still get vibrations until the warped rotors are replaced.
      Last edited by GRUENDIG; 09-06-2020 at 08:48 AM.

    16. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by GRUENDIG View Post
      First off, I don't know if anyone has said "only" rear brakes or you're just asking a question.
      IMO - in this case, it is a combination of braking by the front/rear. How much ??? - and I don't think anyone else knows. Unless a statement is made by Volvo it's all guessing. (As I am doing with this post).
      It would seem logical that if your front rotors are warped and the car applies braking in autopilot you would still get vibrations until the warped rotors are replaced.
      Yes, that was a question and I was hoping somebody has a concrete answer. All what I read here gives the electronic rear brake the brake responsibility while the autopilot/cruise control is used. It seems that people are saying that the small motor in the rear brake is the (only) unit which controls the braking in autopilot mode. This "fact" is also mainly used to explain why the rear brakes wear down so quickly when people use the autopilot. Just wanted to see if there is somebody who has more inside and can confirm this.

    17. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jack2020 View Post
      Yes, that was a question and I was hoping somebody has a concrete answer. All what I read here gives the electronic rear brake the brake responsibility while the autopilot/cruise control is used.
      It seems that people are saying that the small motor in the rear brake is the (only) unit which controls the braking in autopilot mode. This "fact" is also mainly used to explain why the rear brakes wear down so quickly when people use the autopilot.
      Just wanted to see if there is somebody who has more inside and can confirm this.
      So you're saying people are saying the electronic parking brake is used in autopilot and not the hydraulic circuit? I would like to see that explained by Volvo and if it is true I would like to see where it is posted by Volvo. (I don't put much faith in "people are saying").

    18. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by GRUENDIG View Post
      So you're saying people are saying the electronic parking brake is used in autopilot and not the hydraulic circuit? I would like to see that explained by Volvo and if it is true I would like to see where it is posted by Volvo. (I don't put much faith in "people are saying").
      I am just asking a simple question and looking for a simple answer. All I am saying is what I have seen here in the forum about this topic. I am not saying that is the answer, otherwise I would have not asked the question. You seem not to know the answer neither and honestly I don't understand the confrontational tone of your two last posts.

    19. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jack2020 View Post
      I am just asking a simple question and looking for a simple answer. All I am saying is what I have seen here in the forum about this topic. I am not saying that is the answer, otherwise I would have not asked the question. You seem not to know the answer neither and honestly
      I don't understand the confrontational tone of your two last posts.
      It was not my intention to be confrontational and for that I am sorry.
      I believe the best answer to your question would be a response from Volvo.

    20. #18
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      Most braking control (while driving) for all manufacturers is handled by the ABS and TCS systems. So it’s incorrect to think that the parking brake system is the only way a Volvo can control the rear brakes. Volvo safety systems (including the Indirect TPMS in another thread) constantly monitor wheel speed at all 4 corners and detect differences. Some differences are known (eg: steering angle is an input so inside wheels should be expected to spin at a slower rate according to a formula). This is the same for almost all car manufacturers. When the algorithm determines that the difference in wheel speed exceeds the thresholds, then braking action is implemented.

      Going back to the thread, Active Lane Keep Assist will use the brakes (as well as steering control) depending upon the speed and deviation from the lane. I keep mine off as I felt it was too intrusive. Turning it off has no effect on Pilot Assist’s ability to keep you centred in the lane. Leaving it on WILL increase brake wear as it will apply brakes when necessary without driver input. The amount will likely be worse if you tend to weave within the lines with Lane Keep Assist on.

    21. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by GRUENDIG View Post
      It was not my intention to be confrontational and for that I am sorry.
      I believe the best answer to your question would be a response from Volvo.
      I am sorry too for the misunderstanding.

    22. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by CedarMtn View Post
      Going back to the thread, Active Lane Keep Assist will use the brakes (as well as steering control) depending upon the speed and deviation from the lane. I keep mine off as I felt it was too intrusive. Turning it off has no effect on Pilot Assist’s ability to keep you centred in the lane. Leaving it on WILL increase brake wear as it will apply brakes when necessary without driver input. The amount will likely be worse if you tend to weave within the lines with Lane Keep Assist on.
      Good to know, I will keep mine off. I think anyway this is one of the few features of the car which doesn't work as well as in my the other cars.

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by CedarMtn View Post
      Going back to the thread, Active Lane Keep Assist will use the brakes (as well as steering control) depending upon the speed and deviation from the lane. I keep mine off as I felt it was too intrusive. Turning it off has no effect on Pilot Assist’s ability to keep you centred in the lane. Leaving it on WILL increase brake wear as it will apply brakes when necessary without driver input. The amount will likely be worse if you tend to weave within the lines with Lane Keep Assist on.
      I've set my Lane Keeping Assist to vibrate only. Since there's no physical intervention, there should be no effect on brake wear. Lets you benefit from the feature without affecting maintenance. (I've talked to a couple of XC90 owners--no V90's around here--who were totally unaware that option existed)

    24. #22
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      Rear brake wear is actually a very common issue across most of the manufacturers. I replaced the read pads on my V60 at 40k miles, and it was about the same for the V70XC that I had previously.

      I did a little research and found a theory that makes sense to me. You will notice that the rear pads are much smaller than the fronts, so all else being equal, they will wear out first.

      Now, regarding the "all else being equal" comment, you need to understand the concept of front/rear brake proportioning. In the ancient times before ABS, all brake systems included a hydraulic proportioning valve. The purpose of this valve was to reduce the hydraulic pressure to the rear brakes. This was necessary to prevent the rear wheels from locking up under heavy braking (weight transfers to the front under braking).

      Race cars have driver-adjustable proportioning valves so that drivers can adjust to varying conditions like rain (less forward weight transfer in low-traction conditions).

      Fast-forward to the ABS era, and the engineers realized that the ABS system did a better job of preventing rear lockup than the proportioning valve and simply deleted it. The downside (if you can even call it that) is that the rears now see the same, full pressure as the fronts. And, as mentioned earlier, because they have less surface area, they will simply wear out faster.

      Now, you could beef-up the rear pads so that they would wear out at the same time as the fronts, but why? They would be heavier and more expensive, and this probably negates the convenience factor.

      Just my theory.
      Last edited by Dyno; 09-08-2020 at 09:45 AM.

    25. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by ru1 View Post
      This has nothing to do with hand break as the hand break is used when the car is stationary and so, basically, it does not wear anything.
      Absolutely correct and agreed!
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