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    1. #1
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      No more T6 just heard...

      Salesman just told me that Volvo no longer building S60 T6. Just T5 and T8. So you can no longer order a T6.

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    3. #2
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      Interesting, the T6 model still shows up in the 2021 online configurator.
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    4. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by fiatlux View Post
      Interesting, the T6 model still shows up in the 2021 online configurator.
      Yup I mentioned that, said he just got word of it.

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    6. #4
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      Was he trying to get you to T5 or T8?

      Krzyś

    7. #5
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      wouldn't surprise me, we know within a few years they dont' want to sell ANYTHING without at least some level of electrification. They will start cutting down the ICE only options
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    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by krzyss View Post
      Was he trying to get you to T5 or T8?

      Krzyś
      Nope, said if wanted a 2021 had to be a T5 or T8. No more T6 option.

    9. #7
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      Does VCUSA want to kill the sedan now after killed the wagon?
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    10. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      Does VCUSA want to kill the sedan now after killed the wagon?
      the sales numbers speak for themselves.
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    11. #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Avboden View Post
      the sales numbers speak for themselves.
      Agreed... however, with moves like this is a slippery slope. You cut a option you lose sales you cut more options you lose more sales...
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    12. #10
      My salesman just called to let me know my order is confirmed and my car will be built....but the T6 is done. He said dealers had no warning of this. Man, if you had been working with a customer on ordering a car and now the model is gone....seems like it should have been phased out in a different way. That means my 2021 Bursting Blue R-Desing with State interior, sport suspension and B & W audio will likely be the only car in America in this configuration. I was maybe going to put off order for a few weeks as I still was considering another Audi but....man did I luck out. Now we know why there are virtually no 2021 T6s cars on lots and allocations to dealers was almost non-existent. With an 250hp or 400 hp option it sure will be hard to see how they compare very well to the competition. Now we also know why the T8 R-Design Expression is a thing....lowering the costs. Of course maybe I will be sad I didn't get a T8 now that the price difference between identically equipped T6 verses T8 is about $1500. I guess that's probably a bargain for over 100 more horsepower. However that means no S60 is now available with the Sport Suspension (another rare feature may car will have). Volvo sure is marching ahead with their own plans, and I guess we can't change there mind (good or bad).

    13. #11
      Junior Member DrFunkelstein's Avatar
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      Disappointing but I’m not surprised. I already got burned by this last year — was holding out to get a V60 T6 but couldn’t make it happen in 2019, and then the axe fell for 2020 without much warning.

      But it makes sense with Volvo’s overall migration away from pure ICE and toward electric and hybrids only (and electrics only beyond that).

    14. #12
      Junior Member 97redz3's Avatar
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      Yup ... vehicles powered by dino fuel are going the way of ... the dinosaur!
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    15. #13
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      That's surprising! but not surprising at the same time as NA market was the only T6 left. I could probably get over the T8 being the replacement, got my issues with the ERAD replacing mechanical AWD but would be a cool new adventure. But no sport chassis damn I couldn't live without that. The 112mph speed limiter is a bit far as well, I can exceed that just slightly on the track nights I went to, so it kinda cuts into that "don't need it but like to know it's there" that you have to have if you are going to sell a driver's car. Despite what we all think of the typical driver, this class of car does have driving dynamics high on the list, otherwise the Lexus ES would take all the customers away.

      Those of us with the T6/sport chassis may have a nice orphaned car to hold on to, if you like it!

      Speaking hypothetically the Polestar 2 I would be pretty excited about, with the performance package. It grabs me in a way the Tesla doesn't. I think they may have a hit with it if they can reach the people that might be turned off the Tesla. And that thing gets Ohlins and 130mph top speed.

      Quote Originally Posted by 97redz3 View Post
      Yup ... vehicles powered by dino fuel are going the way of ... the dinosaur!
      EV sales are 1.4% of total US sales, and HEV/PHEV (hybrid) sales are 2.4% of total US car sales in 2019, if my google-fu is up to snuff. I know the mfrs want to be where the market is going, but seems to me there is a large market in traditional gas cars for some time, that Volvo might be giving up. Or they end up switching those people from their own or competitors gas models. I guess we'll see how their market bet turns out.

    16. #14
      Junior Member arnoud's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Power6 View Post
      EV sales are 1.4% of total US sales, and HEV/PHEV (hybrid) sales are 2.4% of total US car sales in 2019, if my google-fu is up to snuff. I know the mfrs want to be where the market is going, but seems to me there is a large market in traditional gas cars for some time, that Volvo might be giving up. Or they end up switching those people from their own or competitors gas models. I guess we'll see how their market bet turns out.
      That, or the US market is no longer the dominating market driving product development? Electical drive-trains are the future. Clutching at Straws.

    17. #15
      Senior Member Wayne T5's Avatar
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      Not really surprising. One could see the handwriting on the wall with the V60 and V60CC only being offered with the T5 currently. Sedans are such a small percentage of what Volvo sells in the US to begin with they need to rationalize production as much as possible. They gave it a shot with the T6 in the S60 for two years, sales weren't there, time to make adjustments. I would hope/expect this means the S60 T5 will be available with AWD now.
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    18. #16
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      The T5 will also end up being replaced by the B5 (mild-hybrid, 48V) sooner or later for US market. Mild-hybrid systems are belt driven starter/generators, and they're simpler to implement on current production engines since they replace the standard alternator, and pair it with a dedicated 48V battery. The Start/stop function will be smoother, and the belt integrated starter/generator can also give some torque boost at lower rpms to help with acceleration and fuel consumption reduction.

    19. #17
      Junior Member 97redz3's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Power6 View Post
      EV sales are 1.4% of total US sales, and HEV/PHEV (hybrid) sales are 2.4% of total US car sales in 2019, if my google-fu is up to snuff. I know the mfrs want to be where the market is going, but seems to me there is a large market in traditional gas cars for some time, that Volvo might be giving up. Or they end up switching those people from their own or competitors gas models. I guess we'll see how their market bet turns out.
      I agree - it's about skating to where the puck will be vs. where it is now. Globally, CO2 restrictions and fuel economy standards are pushing the entire industry towards electrification ... not just Volvo. It makes sense; the technological barriers have mostly fallen. Toss in real performance advantages (better acceleration, better handling due to lower Cg), less complex manufacturing and servicing, and lower cost of ownership and the future is bright for electrics.
      Last edited by 97redz3; 09-17-2020 at 08:01 PM.
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    20. #18
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      I don't think T6 sells less than T8, even with the trend considered. VCUSA is just clueless.

      T8 also cost a lot more than T6 to build. Lower priced T8 will eat into their revenue.

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    21. #19
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      The T5 does sound raspier which I like... and the T8 pricing was brought a bit more in line... Personally... I'd rather a full electric than a plug in hybrid. I do keep calling out the Volvo trainers when they push the T8 by asking if that means we're gonna get some in stock proportional to the amount of training time. I won't push the idea of a car to a customer if I don't think it's realistic to get the car in stock that week to sell it.... But market wise it makes sense... Honestly we get very few sedan shoppers... and I'd say, regardless of how great the new S60 is, most of our customers are returning Volvo folks who don't overly care about 316 HP... so it will make the AWD base option more affordable. I think it will help sales more than hurt frankly. We found out first through an allocation of T5 AWD... We thought it must have been a Volvo typo... but later in the day we got a memo of the change. So we were told we were getting the cars before they told us they made the change =-D
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    22. #20
      Junior Member arnoud's Avatar
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      Something I have been wondering about; why would you need AWD on an S60 or V60? Maybe in regions where they still have *real* winters, where driving on winter tires (or even spiked ones) do not cut it. But then you probably want something XC-ish.

    23. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by arnoud View Post
      Something I have been wondering about; why would you need AWD on an S60 or V60? Maybe in regions where they still have *real* winters, where driving on winter tires (or even spiked ones) do not cut it. But then you probably want something XC-ish.

      AWD on sedans/wagons in this segment is seen as a "premium" option/feature (not so much due to inclement weather). That's why you see the other premium brands offering AWD on their sedans (BMW xDrive, Audi Quattro, Mercedes 4Matic, etc.).

      Even Mazda, in their current quest to become more "premium", started offering AWD on the Mazda 3 (even on the non-turbo model).

    24. #22
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      The problem is they reduce choices for their customers. This idea never sells. We all know public transportation is more efficient when they are full, if we reasoning like VCUSA, then why bother making family cars at all.

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    25. #23
      Junior Member genesmasher's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      The T5 does sound raspier which I like... and the T8 pricing was brought a bit more in line... Personally... I'd rather a full electric than a plug in hybrid. I do keep calling out the Volvo trainers when they push the T8 by asking if that means we're gonna get some in stock proportional to the amount of training time. I won't push the idea of a car to a customer if I don't think it's realistic to get the car in stock that week to sell it.... But market wise it makes sense... Honestly we get very few sedan shoppers... and I'd say, regardless of how great the new S60 is, most of our customers are returning Volvo folks who don't overly care about 316 HP... so it will make the AWD base option more affordable. I think it will help sales more than hurt frankly. We found out first through an allocation of T5 AWD... We thought it must have been a Volvo typo... but later in the day we got a memo of the change. So we were told we were getting the cars before they told us they made the change =-D
      Interesting how this thread evolved
      I was advocating for T5 AWD from the beginning, for Volvo's sake - better late than never. But for me, T6 is still the most enjoyable powertrain in this car (apart from crappy fuel economy in traffic). Pretty happy I was able to grab two of them this year, in sunny CA of all places.
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    26. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by genesmasher View Post

      Interesting how this thread evolved <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
      I was advocating for T5 AWD from the beginning, for Volvo's sake - better late than never. But for me, T6 is still the most enjoyable powertrain in this car (apart from crappy fuel economy in traffic). Pretty happy I was able to grab two of them this year, in sunny CA of all places.
      Glad I picked up a ‘19 T6. The AWD really is great

    27. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by DFrantz View Post
      But market wise it makes sense... Honestly we get very few sedan shoppers... and I'd say, regardless of how great the new S60 is, most of our customers are returning Volvo folks who don't overly care about 316 HP... so it will make the AWD base option more affordable. I think it will help sales more than hurt frankly.
      Hi!

      I feel like this position is somewhat...naive? Unambitious? Do Volvo's decisions really make sense, market-wise? Is this car actually great? Are you, as a business, content to continue selling to the same pool of customers or do you want to grow that market?

      I am a sedan shopper. I care about the 316 HP (actually 330, because I would want the Polestar tune, but the more the merrier) and the AWD. I drove a MY20, but I didn't buy one and the MY21 is an overtly inferior product to the MY20 (and surely, as a dealer, you MUST know this). There is actually a ton of interest in this car from those of us outside the brand, but it's not being converted into sales for many reasons. Echoing what I said in the Nappa Leather thread, us outsiders are attracted by the styling, solid on-paper specs, and the idea that it isn't a car from one of the Big German Three. But then we come and drive it and find it lacking in several key areas that are just hard to get over. When we leave your dealership after not buying a car, we tell our friends why we chose not to and that has the knock-on effect of keeping actual traffic interested in the S60 from non-Volvo customers out of your showrooms.

      If you want to increase interest in your sports sedan, you need to be telling Volvo Cars USA that changes need to be made to the car to make it more directly competitive with the other brands, because the competition is savaging this model. My suggestions on what you should report are:

      • Improve paddle responsiveness and reduce safety margins on the automatic override; not acceptable for a car with a trim whose marketing material advertised paddles to be bad at using them; it's not the transmission itself, Lexus knows how to tune it.
      • Make AWD an option on every powertrain; no excuse for keeping it off the T5 when every other luxury brand pairs AWD with their low-end engines and the V60CC gets AWD with the T5 (this one sounds like it will be remedied, so good on them)
      • Accelerate the roll-out of the PHEV power-trains in the US; no excuse for the T6 PHEV not being here in MY20, honestly, and it's really raining on the new "Recharge" parade something fierce
      • Further address the general speed of the infotainment system; kinda universal growing pain for infotainment, but it's imperative for Volvo given the proportion of controls that rely on it (and not everybody wants to talk to their car)
      • Provide a paid-for option to bump the limiter back up to the old 130 mph or industry standard 155 mph on R-Design and Polestar Engineered trims; 112 mph will save nobody for the same reason that they argue nobody will really care and things like outright performance are very important to this segment. Adding the option lets everybody win; those of us who care get what we want, dealers and Volvo get to make more money while keeping most cars restricted.
      • Spend a modicum of effort to make it sound nice; I don't hate artificial sound, as long as the execution adds to the enjoyment of the car and there is the option to turn it off for those people who don't want it.
      • Faster steering ratio on R-Design; I don't think there's much Volvo can do about the completely dead steering feedback at this point, but getting it to turn in quicker is fairly simple, mechanically.


      Even if these don't make it to the current S60, but its successor (I hope there is one), that will be good enough to make me buy one assuming the styling doesn't get buggered. I want it to drive as tight and sharp as it looks. Volvo needs to re-inject some of the old, proper Polestar crazy into its product for this segment.

      P.S. I am also a wagon shopper. Do you get more people coming in asking about the wagon than the sedan? From my current position, it looks like Volvo had a market effectively cornered and then shot itself in the foot by cutting all the options out and making it unappealing.

    28. #26
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      Ok guys - if needed, I can pull these posts and create a thread in the Off-Topic forum to continue this deep dive discussion on EVs, battery tech and journal articles on the subject.

      Let's get this thread back on topic about the departure of the T6 offering.

      thanks!

      ## BREAK BREAK ##

      Volvo's move to decontent 2021s is interesting. Volvo has struggled for decades to get products, marketing and advertising right. Sweden has never really understood the U.S. market even when dealerships provided feedback. The product pipeline is further blurred with input from Geely. The departure of the S60 T6 is unfortunate. Compounded with a bland color palette.

      It is nice to see the 2021 R-Design models are getting black front grilles to properly match the rest of the exterior trim.
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    29. #27
      Junior Member MJEWETT's Avatar
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      As unfortunate as it is, this will most likely be my last Volvo (2020 T6 R-Design). And sadly, its for such silly, stupid reasons that as many of us have already said in this and the discontinuation of the ventilated seats on the S/V60 inscription model thread I started, actually mean a lot to a potential buyer in this class of car.

      I love my car, and I love the features I had been lucky enough to order before they were removed. There are of course many things that could be improved upon to make the car better but it is an overall great package. Many of its cons are equaled by some pretty nice pros. But seeing what they have done across the board to their model lineup, especially the S60, really irks me.

      What makes me most angry is the lack and continual removal of options and features for the US market, yet the S60 is produced in our country. It's mind-boggling. I understand not having the mass-produced models which are allocated for dealer lots contain many of these features, but being that all the parts are available in the factory, along with the paint colors we were ridden of, it is pretty outrageous that they don't allow for more tailored customer-ordered models like they used to.

      With the previous-gen models, you always had an overseas order booklet with all of the options and features you were able to obtain by doing a direct order or doing overseas delivery. If you are a volvo diehard, I am sure you are aware. S80's used to be able to be ordered with special trims and shades of leather, etc. S60's could come in some pretty wild interior material combinations, etc. It seems with SPA, and CMA, volvo basically nixed all uniqueness and customization with the special-orders. Now more so than ever.

      If ten years ago, I could order an S80 with blood-red leather seats and brushed aluminum trim with a sport suspension and forged rims if I were willing to take a trip to sweden to pick it up, or give up the free trip and wait until it got here, why can I not now do something similar when the factory is only a mere few states away from us all. It's crazy.

      Besides all of what I said above, the T6 was the sweet spot in the lineup. Sure, remove the T6, but at least replace it with the B6 if you are going to do this. Many of us would rather have a mild hybrid that doesn't need to be plugged in, as opposed to a car that needs to be charged each night. That could be just me... but I just don't like the idea of having to put gas in the car and still charge my car at night.

      Also, don't devalue what an R-Design means, considering an R-Design is really just a devalued version of the original R's that Volvo completely abandoned to begin with. As we all know, an R-Design is really basically just a styling pack, some tinkering here and there but basically if you didn't opt for the sport suspension and the polestar tune, it was a glorified-looking version of all the over models on the lot. They finally seemed to be heading in the right direction with the R-Designs on the SPA platform, and then they shot themselves in the foot with this whole "expression" trim level. First you took the hallmark "R" trim (still fangirled by all Volvo fans for being a truly competitive sports trim) and made it almost all but an appearance pack, and now you are going to make an even less competitive appearance pack off of the appearance pack? I literally don't get it.

      So we started with R, then had R-Design, and now we have an R-Design-lite? You could almost equate it to the people who put AMG or M badges on their c300's and 328i's. If you opted for an R-Design, you paid a premium for it, and you paid a premium to have your S60 look and feel more "special" than most of the typical momentum and lightly spec'd Inscriptions you see driving around. Now, why even bother. Are we really going to have to now say "hey, nice volvo, is yours a real R-Design or an Expression?"

      And don't even get me started on the whole top speed-limiter bull****. If someone crashed at 112mph, what is the likelihood of them surviving it vs. crashing at 130 or 155? Will the car be even more destroyed? Of course, but I really wouldn't expect someone to survive a crash at 112 either, even in a Volvo. I wouldn't have an issue with it whatsoever if the limiter wasn't implemented on a Polestar Engineered or R-Design models and only on Inscription or Momentum models, but to do it model-wide in your lineup when you are charging $70K for a high-performance sports sedan/wagon/suv? You just lost the very few sales you were making to begin with if you ask me.

      And then just the outrageous little penny-pinching decisions they made for 2021. No more R-Design logo for the R-Design sports steering wheel? No more paddle shifters on your performance trims? No more headlight washers? No more ventilated seats on your "luxury" trim for S/V60's?

      Plain old stupid decisions. Every new model that comes out, it seems they are going in the right direction, and then every year further in the lineup, ignorant decisions as these occur and upset their buying demographic.
      Last edited by MJEWETT; 09-21-2020 at 07:51 AM.

    30. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by MJEWETT View Post


      And don't even get me started on the whole top speed-limiter bull****. If someone crashed at 112mph, what is the likelihood of them surviving it vs. crashing at 130 or 155? Will the car be even more destroyed? Of course, but I really wouldn't expect someone to survive a crash at 112 either, even in a Volvo. I wouldn't have an issue with it whatsoever if the limiter wasn't implemented on a Polestar Engineered or R-Design models and only on Inscription or Momentum models, but to do it model-wide in your lineup when you are charging $70K for a high-performance sports sedan/wagon/suv? You just lost the very few sales you were making to begin with if you ask me.
      Are you sure there is a 112mph limiter on the PE? My uk spec v60pe is capable of more than 112 - higher enough that it’s not a calibration error.

      Don’t ask me how I know.

      I notice T6s are available in the UK, but unfortunately they’re the T5+erad rather than a physical awd twin charge.

    31. #29
      Junior Member MJEWETT's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by amadan View Post
      Are you sure there is a 112mph limiter on the PE? My uk spec v60pe is capable of more than 112 - higher enough that it’s not a calibration error.

      Don’t ask me how I know.

      I notice T6s are available in the UK, but unfortunately they’re the T5+erad rather than a physical awd twin charge.
      Is yours a 2020 or 2021, the speed limiter was enacted on 2021 models. Maybe the PE models do in fact have higher top speeds...?

    32. #30
      Junior Member DrFunkelstein's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MJEWETT View Post
      Is yours a 2020 or 2021, the speed limiter was enacted on 2021 models. Maybe the PE models do in fact have higher top speeds...?
      I’m pretty sure the ‘21 PEs don’t have the limiter, at least that is what I’ve read from other sources.

    33. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by MJEWETT View Post
      Is yours a 2020 or 2021, the speed limiter was enacted on 2021 models. Maybe the PE models do in fact have higher top speeds...?
      Built late April 2020 - I think that makes it 2020.

      Quote Originally Posted by DrFunkelstein View Post
      I’m pretty sure the ‘21 PEs don’t have the limiter, at least that is what I’ve read from other sources.
      Strangely the current technical spec sheet for the UK says 112.

      I don’t know tbh - not something really usable in the uk.

      I do wonder if the speed limit is less about safety and more about the limits of EV motors and getting people used to it / standardisation. I don’t know what the top speed of the polestar 2 is but my understanding is that current EV motors don’t deal with high speed well unless they have gearboxes which add weight and complexity.

      Edit: Google says ~130mph but I suspect “Volvo” rather than polestar will be far more mainstream and less performance orientated. Xc40 pure electric is apparently 112.

      Pity I suspect, especially judging by this forums stance on the “real” T6, that the twin charged engine with “proper” awd is a real gem.
      Last edited by amadan; 09-21-2020 at 11:56 AM.

    34. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by amadan View Post
      Pity I suspect, especially judging by this forums stance on the “real” T6, that the twin charged engine with “proper” awd is a real gem.
      I assure you, it is an absolute joy to drive. I love mine.

    35. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by MJEWETT View Post
      As unfortunate as it is, this will most likely be my last Volvo (2020 T6 R-Design)
      Great summary bud. I'm on my first Volvo, they are already removing reasons for me to buy/lease another one. I guess I'll have to decide in a couple years to buy this one out or move on.

      I tend to be more concerned with understanding, why they do what they do etc. than thinking about how they could do better, it's just the way I am. Volvo certainly seems to be shuffling things around in more of a desperate attempt to make money with the S60, or not lose too much at least. It doesn't seem like a "hey this was a hit let's kick it up a notch" kinda thing.

      But freeing my mind from that, you're right, they build the damn thing here, they could be much more creative with the buying process and offer something you can't get anywhere else, a ton of customization, a truly worthy "R" or something else. Whatever you say about Tesla, and there is a ton, they have different approach to the relationship with the customer: Tweet at Elon "hey why don't you have a 'dog mode' in the car?" he says "sure" and they put a "dog mode" in the car. The entire culture of the established automakers is just not that responsive.

      All I believe that 112 mph limit is wordwide all models including the PE, Volvo said the goal was to eliminate all deaths in all Volvo cars. Disagree with them if you like but I guess their data says 112 mph is the safe compromise. Interesting the Polestar brand though, does not follow that.

    36. #34
      112 MPH is the max speed rating for tires before you move up to a more expensive tire designed for higher speeds. I'm guessing this plays a part in the choice of that number, allowing them to not pay for (or customers pay for) tires that cost more money to drive at speeds the driver will never see.

      I'm about as big of a Volvo enthusiast as they come, and Volvo is fighting for survival right now. After seeing the comments here I don't think people really understand just how serious financial crisis is to keep the S60 plant in the USA open right now. Volvo isn't not listening to customers, they are trying to find a way to keep building S60s at all, let alone a car for enthusiasts or luxury options few ever choose. If they can make it through this, THEN they can attempt to give customers what they want.

      Probably the current 2021 option list is 100% what 90% of buyers want right now. I completely understand why they are doing it, while at the same time completely hate it. I ordered a 2021 R-Design thinking it would be the same as a 2020. I'm very disappointed so many "R-specific" touches are gone, but I should just be thankful Im even getting a T6 R-Design at all. The automotive industry is nearly collapsing right now, so I think Volvo's choices are a lot more palatable than a lot of other brands simply eliminating models and choices all together.

    37. #35
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      I think this is where I will have to do some actual Volvo-bashing. It's for their own good, I swear!

      Quote Originally Posted by VolvoFaRmeR View Post
      112 MPH is the max speed rating for tires before you move up to a more expensive tire designed for higher speeds. I'm guessing this plays a part in the choice of that number, allowing them to not pay for (or customers pay for) tires that cost more money to drive at speeds the driver will never see.
      The odds that it has anything to actually do with safety are long because if the driver never sees those speeds then the limiter can't save anybody. The speed limiter is most likely there to reduce costs (and therefore improve margins) long-term, allowing Volvo to use less robust and less powerful components knowing what all of their cars will be capable of, and to provide a tangible incentive for performance-minded customers to hop over to Polestar, which made a big deal to announce that they would have no such corporate limiter.

      I'm about as big of a Volvo enthusiast as they come, and Volvo is fighting for survival right now. After seeing the comments here I don't think people really understand just how serious financial crisis is to keep the S60 plant in the USA open right now.
      Volvo has been here before. Twice. They were not profitable enough for their original parent to keep around and they were not profitable enough for Ford to keep around. To get ahead of the usual argument that Ford mismanaged Volvo, they mismanaged their entire company up to that point and have been losing money on Lincoln for decades and they still chose to sell Volvo. Volvo is struggling for the same reason any company struggles: they are not building a product that appeals to enough people for the per-unit margins they can command, an issue compounded by several avoidable miscalculations by upper management.

      Geely won't offload Volvo, though, because Volvo is the jewel in their crown and their key to accessing Western markets. The over-active part of my imagination thinks Geely is all too happy to hold back the purse and let Volvo mis-manage itself because it will ultimately increase Volvo's dependency on them and make them more willing to fully merge. It will also make Polestar, which they more directly control, increasingly relevant to shoppers.

      Volvo isn't not listening to customers, they are trying to find a way to keep building S60s at all, let alone a car for enthusiasts or luxury options few ever choose. If they can make it through this, THEN they can attempt to give customers what they want.
      Eeeeeh, I am going to come out swinging and call that out as empirically false. Customers wanted engines other than the 2.0L I4. They wanted to not have the 112 mph speed limiter. They wanted more physical controls inside the car. They wanted an actual follow-on to the S60/V60 Polestar and not a bunch of bolt-ons and a tuning job on a standard trim. They wanted a return of options for a wagon already certified for US consumption. They wanted ECUs that were not locked down, let alone internet-secured. None of it has materialized and none of it is going to materialize because it's not where Volvo wants to go and it's not where Geely wants Volvo to go. When we come out the other side, we will still have Volvos that are stuck with a weedy engine that is poor on fuel. We will still have 400+ HP "enthusiast" trims stuck with a 112 mph top speed and unresponsive shifting. We will still be stuck with the current capacitive-centric Sensus control schema. We might get the comfort options back, but that's not going to win new customers over to buy this sedan considering few were buying it before they were axed, especially in the US. There is still plenty of stock of new MY19s. For something niche like an Audi TT or Alfa Romeo 4C I could understand that, but not for a pedestrian luxury sedan.

      For a company whose current marketing material says, and I quote, "We believe that technology should set us free – not restrict us", they sure seem to be keen at using technology to pile on the restrictions. Volvo also has such repugnant features in the pipeline as geo-fenced performance limiters! This is the kind of unwanted development you are supporting with your purchase.

      Probably the current 2021 option list is 100% what 90% of buyers want right now.
      Unlikely. When Audi has a model on the way out that they want to move as much as possible of, they standardize previously optional features and then, in aggregate, drop the price below what those features would have cost prior. See the outgoing A3 still on sale in the US. If Volvo really wanted move units, they would make the nicer things standard at a lower price and then drop the rest so they can stay competitive while also streamlining production, but that is not the track they are taking. All of Volvo's cuts point to saving on material costs. The T5 has less parts, is less expensive to produce, and is used in more vehicles across more markets than the T6. By axing the T6, they can reduce production of the supercharger and related components necessary to to build T6 engines destined for the US plant. Ditto why things like the R badging, paddle-equipped steering wheels, Nappa Leather seats, etc. were all cut, they are consolidating to a smaller common parts pile to reduce operating expenses. That, by the way, is also why they went all-in on touch screens from the start. It's also why Tesla does it. It's not fresh or forward-thinking, it's just cheap.

      I completely understand why they are doing it, while at the same time completely hate it. I ordered a 2021 R-Design thinking it would be the same as a 2020. I'm very disappointed so many "R-specific" touches are gone, but I should just be thankful Im even getting a T6 R-Design at all. The automotive industry is nearly collapsing right now, so I think Volvo's choices are a lot more palatable than a lot of other brands simply eliminating models and choices all together.
      I understand it, but I view it as a situation of their own manufacture. The auto industry is hardly collapsing, especially not the well-insulated luxury side that they inhabit, and options are hardly being eliminated wholesale and certainly not even close to the same degree that Volvo has been castrating itself. All of the German marques are full-steam ahead releasing new product and adding more options; if yo've been frequenting car review channels like Autogefühl, it's been a veritable parade of new models from the Fatherland. The Hyundai group and Japanese brands like Honda and Toyota have also been absolutely killing it. No, it's the niche brands who have failed to appeal to a broad audience and which rely on large volumes of low-margin sales to stay solvent that are struggling, brands like Volvo, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Alfa Romeo, and Chrysler.

      If I were in your position, I would have cancelled my order because they are delivering an inferior product to what I thought I was signing up for given the last two model years. So respect for being a fan, but the brand will only continue to decay if people keep teaching them the wrong lesson by buying despite the product getting worse. You are not helping them survive, you are only helping them die slower.

      Even then, I actually have no idea why you ordered an MY21 at all when the market is still flooded with new MY19s and MY20s. One of them is bound to be what you're looking for. If it's something silly like not having the exterior styling kit, the savings all these "old" cars have from incentives would allow you to get that very same kit from Viva Performance and you'd end up with a better vehicle overall.

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