Do you recommend Polestar upgrade to T8
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    1. #1
      Junior Member fernxc90's Avatar
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      Do you recommend Polestar upgrade to T8

      My MY16 T6 is amazing and haven't had any issues in 4.5years of ownership with about 45,000km. I am now looking to get MY21 T8 (Onyx Black) and wondering if Polestar is a worth upgrade. Also, any other changes/enhancements in MY21 from MY20 as I haven't seen it yet.

      Appreciate any feedback.
      2016 XC90 T6 Inscription / Crystal White Pearl / Amber / Fully Loaded / P*

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    3. #2
      Member Seti's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by fernxc90 View Post
      My MY16 T6 is amazing and haven't had any issues in 4.5years of ownership with about 45,000km. I am now looking to get MY21 T8 (Onyx Black) and wondering if Polestar is a worth upgrade. Also, any other changes/enhancements in MY21 from MY20 as I haven't seen it yet.

      Appreciate any feedback.
      Since you're from a T6, Polestar's worth to you for the T8 will be the same it was to you for the outgoing T6.

      If you didn't value it for your T6, you wouldn't for the T8. That's because, apart from smooth gearing etc, it works only on ICE stuff and not on the electrical stuff

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    4. #3
      Junior Member fernxc90's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seti View Post
      Since you're from a T6, Polestar's worth to you for the T8 will be the same it was to you for the outgoing T6.

      If you didn't value it for your T6, you wouldn't for the T8. That's because, apart from smooth gearing etc, it works only on ICE stuff and not on the electrical stuff

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      I see. Thanks Seti.
      I do like the Polestar on my T6 and it's worth but I thought because of the additional power from the electric stuff, the upgrade isn't that significant anymore. Let me think about it as this can be done at the dealer and I still have about 4months before my order will arrive (hopefully no delay).
      2016 XC90 T6 Inscription / Crystal White Pearl / Amber / Fully Loaded / P*

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    6. #4
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      The upgrade is less significant for the T8 because of the instant torque and diminishing returns at higher power levels (400 hp vs 316 hp).
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    7. #5
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      It is useful when you want to twist on freeway. On city streets mostly you are using battery, not P* mode.

      But you can also drive T6 for 2 more years and see if SPA2 XC90 T8 is much better, such as they squeeze in more battery.
      Rolling, Fusion Red - 2018 XC60 - T8
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    8. #6
      Member Brutus99's Avatar
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      I had 2016 T8 and now have a 2020 T8 with Polestar (came with it already when bought it). Do I feel much difference? Probably not so much (or I haven't used it as much) but I did notice this loud growl sound when you step on it that I don't think I ever heard before with my 2016 lol I should start using it more but I just try to maximize my electric mode to the max
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    9. #7
      Junior Member fernxc90's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brutus99 View Post
      I had 2016 T8 and now have a 2020 T8 with Polestar (came with it already when bought it). Do I feel much difference? Probably not so much (or I haven't used it as much) but I did notice this loud growl sound when you step on it that I don't think I ever heard before with my 2016 lol I should start using it more but I just try to maximize my electric mode to the max
      Thanks Brutus99 and lamarguy for the feedback.
      So setting aside the loud growl, it looks like P* isn't that significant anymore for city driving since battery is mostly used.
      2016 XC90 T6 Inscription / Crystal White Pearl / Amber / Fully Loaded / P*

    10. #8
      Junior Member fernxc90's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      It is useful when you want to twist on freeway. On city streets mostly you are using battery, not P* mode.

      But you can also drive T6 for 2 more years and see if SPA2 XC90 T8 is much better, such as they squeeze in more battery.
      I was thinking of this option but I don't think SPA2 will be available right away in my location (Japan). Also looks like XC100 is coming out after SPA2 XC90 so I'll just have to wait and see 5 or more years from now.
      2016 XC90 T6 Inscription / Crystal White Pearl / Amber / Fully Loaded / P*

    11. #9
      Member Seti's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by fernxc90 View Post
      I see. Thanks Seti.
      I do like the Polestar on my T6 and it's worth but I thought because of the additional power from the electric stuff, the upgrade isn't that significant anymore. Let me think about it as this can be done at the dealer and I still have about 4months before my order will arrive (hopefully no delay).
      Get it. That's my recommendation, for the smooth transmission and other gearing benefits.

      You must remember that on longer distances, that additional power and smooth gearing and changes are necessary because when the hybrid battery is "empty" you'll be carrying extra dead weight. Rather then let that weight be handled by the extra P* power and gearing to deal with changes uphill of carrying that dead weight.

      Benefits of P* are there, and some are invisible to the naked eye

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    12. #10
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seti View Post
      When the hybrid battery is "empty" you'll be carrying extra dead weight. Rather then let that weight be handled by the extra P* power and gearing to deal with changes uphill of carrying that dead weight.
      The "dead weight" is always present (regardless of charge) and the T8 continues to store/use energy with an "empty" battery (zero PURE range).

      The only bearing a "full" versus "empty" charge has is on potential fuel economy. Has nothing to do with power delivery or P* optimizations.

      This forum never disappoints on fundamental misunderstanding...
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    13. #11
      Member Seti's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      The "dead weight" is always present (regardless of charge) and the T8 continues to store/use energy with an "empty" battery (zero PURE range).

      The only bearing a "full" versus "empty" charge has is on potential fuel economy. Has nothing to do with power delivery or P* optimizations.

      This forum never disappoints on fundamental misunderstanding...
      But if battery is fully charged, "dead weight" nomenclature is a misnomer because the availability of charge for use adds value, even when you have pressed saved because it reduces reliance on ICE/ fuel to some extent and saves fuel.

      The saving is value added by that battery with charge and so, it cant be referred ti as dead weight, as in weight adding no value.

      Therefore, when there's a charge, at least that battery isn't just dead weight contributing nothing, it adds value by doing work (physics definition of work) and isn't just carried around.

      If a battery with charge contributing something is also regarded as carrying dead weight, we may as well say the same about the entire structure of the vehicle. Everything is just dead weight. But we know what we usually refer to by dead weight, and in this case, I mean having a big block of structure adding no additional value than it would when fully charged and in use.

      That was my context of the reference.

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    14. #12
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seti View Post
      But if battery is fully charged, "dead weight" nomenclature is a misnomer because the availability of charge for use adds value, even when you have pressed saved because it reduces reliance on ICE/ fuel to some extent and saves fuel.
      Correct, battery charge level only translates to saving additional fuel (trading electric potential for gasoline). Baby steps, I guess.

      Quote Originally Posted by Seti View Post
      Therefore, when there's a charge, at least that battery isn't just dead weight contributing nothing, it adds value by doing work (physics definition of work) and isn't just carried around.
      The battery weight doesn't change with charge level.

      The battery is always doing work, whether you realize it or not. Simply turning on your T8 draws ~3 amps of current sitting still and more when your accessories are running (HVAC, etc). When your PURE range is exhausted (~1/3 charge level), the CISG recharges the battery when ICE is running to maintain 1/3 charge....and, the ERAD continues to provide power on-demand (requested or not).

      Your "dead weight" statement is like saying "my gasoline tank is dead weight when it's 1/3 full or my Tesla's battery is dead weight when it's 1/3 full". It's an ignorant statement commonly spoken by folks who dislike EVs.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    15. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      The "dead weight" is always present (regardless of charge) and the T8 continues to store/use energy with an "empty" battery (zero PURE range).

      The only bearing a "full" versus "empty" charge has is on potential fuel economy. Has nothing to do with power delivery or P* optimizations.

      This forum never disappoints on fundamental misunderstanding...
      A full battery can let you zoom up on several miles of hill road in Power mode.
      With "empty" battery, you only get a few seconds of 400HP push on hill road then it is only 316HP. Some portion of engine power is used by CISG to generate electricity and it is only 34HP, can never be adequate to feed the 87HP ERAD motor. So you get about 34HP from ERAD and 282HP on the front from engine.
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    16. #14
      Member Seti's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      Correct, battery charge level only translates to saving additional fuel (trading electric potential for gasoline). Baby steps, I guess.



      The battery weight doesn't change with charge level.

      The battery is always doing work, whether you realize it or not. Simply turning on your T8 draws ~3 amps of current sitting still and more when your accessories are running (HVAC, etc). When your PURE range is exhausted (~1/3 charge level), the CISG recharges the battery when ICE is running to maintain 1/3 charge....and, the ERAD continues to provide power on-demand (requested or not).

      Your "dead weight" statement is like saying "my gasoline tank is dead weight when it's 1/3 full or my Tesla's battery is dead weight when it's 1/3 full". It's an ignorant statement commonly spoken by folks who dislike EVs.
      By using the term "dead weight", I was referring to carrying weight adding no value, which happens when battery is all finished, while awaiting regeneration or ICE to put in some juice back.

      There is a difference between carrying same battery weight when it has a charge, because that charge adds value, I.e. reduces "weight " of burden off ICE, unlike a flat battery being carried around. That's where my usage of "dead weight" referred to.

      When the battery range is indicated as "--" on the driver's display, it's similar to having couple passengers you don't really need for your journey. That's where I was coming from.

      And my issue was, when you carry such dead weight, the extra P* power compensates for loss of contribution you may have gotten if the battery had a charge by giving you that performance so your car with extra weight isn't kicking and screaming uphills when hauling unnecessary weight bogging it down. And even if its kicking and screaming, at least with P*, you won't have jerking gear changes when it tries to find the right gear to haul that dead weight and whatever else it needs to move.

      Edit: BTW, the comparison with 1/3 fuel tank is wrong. When fuel depletes, overall mass and weight of the vehicle reduces, unlike when the battery gets depleted. The mass remains the same, and ICE now has to power everything from HVAC etc to recharging the battery to maintain 1/3 of the charge. That's dead weight in my books, an extra burden you wouldnt have if the battery had charge, even if it's saved.
      Last edited by Seti; 10-19-2020 at 04:40 PM.
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    17. #15
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      Yes, I recommend the P* upgrade on the T8.
      Current:2020 XC90 T8 Inscription w/Air Suspension, Polestar
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    18. #16
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by FusionRedXC60 View Post
      A full battery can let you zoom up on several miles of hill road in Power mode.
      With "empty" battery, you only get a few seconds of 400HP.
      Ha, because you can infinitely accelerate up a hill? Of course the 400 hp is only for a "few seconds" in real world driving. You either hit your target speed and or are forced to slow down.

      Now, if you has said driving around a closed-loop track...I'd say you purchased the wrong vehicle and you're still wrong because there are several track-certified hybrid supercars (heavy regen emphasis) that maintain their SoC.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    19. #17
      Member lamarguy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Seti View Post
      Edit: BTW, the comparison with 1/3 fuel tank is wrong. When fuel depletes, overall mass and weight of the vehicle reduces, unlike when the battery gets depleted. The mass remains the same, and ICE now has to power everything from HVAC etc to recharging the battery to maintain 1/3 of the charge. That's dead weight in my books, an extra burden you wouldnt have if the battery had charge, even if it's saved.
      You clearly purchased the wrong vehicle if you believe your 1/3 full battery is "dead weight".

      Regen (city driving) is the primary advantage of a hybrid vehicle. Your battery is always being utilized. Fortunately, it doesn't require your "belief" to function.
      OSD '18 XC60 T8 Momentum - 22" 10-spoke wheels, lowered air suspension, strut tower bar, Stealth hitch

    20. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      Ha, because you can infinitely accelerate up a hill? Of course the 400 hp is only for a "few seconds" in real world driving. You either hit your target speed and or are forced to slow down.

      Now, if you has said driving around a closed-loop track...I'd say you purchased the wrong vehicle and you're still wrong because there are several track-certified hybrid supercars (heavy regen emphasis) that maintain their SoC.
      Several miles of uphill road is not hard to find. And you could also be towing a 4000lbs camping trailer...
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    21. #19
      Member Seti's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by lamarguy View Post
      You clearly purchased the wrong vehicle if you believe your 1/3 full battery is "dead weight".

      Regen (city driving) is the primary advantage of a hybrid vehicle. Your battery is always being utilized. Fortunately, it doesn't require your "belief" to function.
      On non downhilly roads with less braking, regen isn't adding significant charge, it then becomes dead weight

      Edit: I bought the right car because:
      1. I wanted more power. Even with dead weight, I believe T8 performs better than T6. If there was a non hybrid XC90 with more power than T8, I'd have bought that one and not T8
      2. I do benefit significantly from city driving fuel savings from the T8. No other car would've given me those savings considering I wanted the most powerful XC90 I could get
      Last edited by Seti; 10-20-2020 at 12:37 AM.
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